Advice Needed: Choosing a Manual Locking Hub Conversion Kit

mrblaine said:
The only debate is from those who don't have a kit who don't want to believe those who do.

Some of that is also on the site for the unit bearing kit. You will never recover the cost of that kit with the .01% increase in fuel mileage savings it will net.

Go read any of the high mileage TJ threads. It is common for folks to get 150, 200, 250,000 miles on a TJ. Do you see them complaining that they wish they had something to stop them from wearing out the front end components that hub kit promoters tout as a huge benefit? No you don't because it really isn't a problem that needs to be fixed and certainly not one you would toss 2 grand at.

The other side of that is one of the main benefits folks would use to justify the kit is to get rid of the non serviceable unit bearings and replace it with something that could be rebuilt or maintained. Now what?

A hub kit has a few nice benefits. Being able to stop the front driveshaft from spinning is the only one that makes one worth getting.
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One thing we know from the motorcycle world, is rotating components generate a gyroscopic effect.... And to some degree that makes a vehicle feel more planted and stable.

I can see someone with a serious front Driveline vibration going manual.

The reason I found the link I did was kicking around the idea.... The argument that preserving the front Driveline really doesn't work... Because it's being pushed around by a rear Driveline that will have whatever mileage it has.

I think the viewpoint that you're throwing $2,000 at a problem that you don't really have is going to carry the day for most TJ owners.

This is really one of those cases were you can see an argument either way, but the number of vehicles on the road tells you that overall the system works.... At the same time there are vehicles and owners that would benefit .
 
AndyG said:
One thing we know from the motorcycle world, is rotating components generate a gyroscopic effect.... And to some degree that makes a vehicle feel more planted and stable.
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Said by no one who has experienced DW ever. ;) DW is caused when the normal tendency to precess is unable to be controlled by the components that are supposed to do so.

I can see someone with a serious front Driveline vibration going manual.

The reason I found the link I did was kicking around the idea.... The argument that preserving the front Driveline really doesn't work... Because it's being pushed around by a rear Driveline that will have whatever mileage it has.

I think the viewpoint that you're throwing $2,000 at a problem that you don't really have is going to carry the day for most TJ owners.

This is really one of those cases were you can see an argument either way, but the number of vehicles on the road tells you that overall the system works.... At the same time there are vehicles and owners that would benefit .
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Folks will see what they want to see. It rarely matters what it actually looks like.
 
That's always the case.

I know a guy who got a trophy wife but it wasn't first place.

I had death wobble in a Ford F-250 at 70 miles per hour ... boy that was pretty exciting. I've always said there were two components to death wobble... What causes it and what allows it.

In 35 years of working for the public, and dealing with tangible products, and working as a mechanic and later as a contractor.... I've seen people get all kinds of ideas in their head... And in some ways it seems like the internet makes people better informed, and in other ways it also allows a greater spread of misinformation.
 
AndyG said:
That's always the case.

I know a guy who got a trophy wife but it wasn't first place.

I had death wobble in a Ford F-250 at 70 miles per hour ... boy that was pretty exciting. I've always said there were two components to death wobble... What causes it and what allows it.

In 35 years of working for the public, and dealing with tangible products, and working as a mechanic and lighter as a contractor.... I've seen people get all kinds of ideas in their head... And in some ways it seems like the internet makes people better informed, and in other ways it also allows a greater spread of misinformation.
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If you get on YouTube and look up videos on precession, you'll be amazed that we ever get a tire to go down the road and not have DW. The gyroscopic forces from a 100 lb. gyro are insane.

I've paid a lot of attention over the years to how information gets passed around. If the info supports or props up your preconceived beliefs or notions, it is far more likely to get passed off as truth than not, especially if you have a limited understanding of something.

I was on Jeeps Unlimited the night that the idiots from OX posted up that Jack's CTM u-joint could not be run in a TJ because it had bushings instead of needle bearings and in fact stated that Jack's instructions stated as such. I happened to have a set of the instructions which stated to the contrary, scanned them in and posted it up and to this day, folks still think that bushings can't be run in a TJ u-joint.

Sadly, I find that those who haven't paid attention to history are doomed to repeat. The OX U-joint was an abysmal failure due to expense, complexity, and simple physics. If you move a load bearing further inboard away from the yoke, you increase the leverage against it and promote high levels of failure. There is now a high dollar version of that for racers that is fully ignoring those simple things.
 
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There was a test in Europe where people spoke to someone asking directions randomly on the street... workers carried a panel between them and they changed the person , attire, height, everything...most people were so unconscious they didn't notice ....about 80 percent .
 
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mrblaine said:
. . . A hub kit has a few nice benefits. Being able to stop the front driveshaft from spinning is the only one that makes one worth getting.
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This is the reason I am converting to manual locking hubs - to stop the source of the vibration/harmonics that developed after re-gearing to 5.38. All of my other "reasons" are better described as rationalizations that make me feel better about the purchase.
 
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mrblaine said:
. . . one of the main benefits folks . . . use to justify the kit is to get rid of the non serviceable unit bearings and replace it with something that could be rebuilt or maintained. Now what. . . ?
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I was thinking about this "benefit" last night. Some advantages of a unit bearing are that it doesn't need to be maintained (because it can't be), it is easily replaced as a unit when it wears out, and unit bearings last a long time. Thus, one factor that makes the RamManINC unit bearing manual hub conversion seem attractive is ease of maintenance.

It will be interesting to find out how the RamManINC kit is put together and what are used for component parts. As I mentioned above, if the engineering is sound it might be an interesting alternative to the Yukon kits. However, after googling around the Internet some more this morning and following on @mrblaine's research into commonly available locking unit bearings and hubs that fit the center hole of a 5 x 4 1/2 wheel, I am reserving judgment as to the strength of the hubs used with this kit and whether it is worth the selling price in comparison with the better known and less expensive 5 x 4 1/2 Yukon kit.

Stay tuned.
 
I'm going to tell you guys a secret about TJ unit bearings ....they are serviceable ...just pull the 2 seals out gently , pack with grease and re install the seals. I did mine.

I know this sounds like heresy , but a bearing with lots of grease and a seal that's been messed with is better than a perfect seal and dry bearing.

Anywhere grease is water can't go.

They aren't designed to be , and the intention is the seals do the job , but they can be , I learned the same thing on dirt bikes ..you can pack a sealed bearing in the hub.

Just be gentle with the seal.
 
I looked at these when I first started looking into doing the hub conversion. I don’t recall what it was that turned me off on them but I vaguely remember I found something on a Dodge cumins forum that someone had an issue and something with a pantent right. It was also just coming out so there was not much information on them.

As far as the strength of the Yukon kit I did the big bolt kit because I wanted to keep the factory width in the front. I have abused them pretty hard and put probably 10k miles on them. Only issue I had was one froze up on me last winter and I had to warm it up with a heat gun to get it unlocked.
 
jeepndogs said:
. . . I did the big bolt kit because I wanted to keep the factory width in the front. . . .
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Post Edited

I just called Yukon to confirm how much the Ranger hub based YA WU-07 Yukon manual hub conversion kit increases the track width - I was told 3/4" per side, 1 1/2" total.

Other information from that call:

Spare hubs for the YA WU-07 kit are available for $332.75/pair MSRP. Yukon does not sell them as singles, although a vendor conceivably might.

Yukon sells both 27 and 30 spline chromoly inner axle shafts to work with the 27 spline outers sold with the conversion kit at approx. $150 MSRP each.

The sales rep recommended the larger YA WU-08 conversion kit as stronger but acknowledged that Yukon sells far more of the smaller YA WU-07 kits.
 
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Follow up on the 1999-2006 Jeep Wrangler Unit Bearing Locking Hub Kit from TheRamManINC in Fort Worth, TX [http://therammaninc.com/products/sh...WRANGLER-4X4-UNIT-BEARING-LOCKING-HUB-KIT-345]:

I spoke with Kate from TheRamManINC on 12/3/18. She informed me that the company formerly used hubs supplied by AVM, but now they use only MileMarker hubs. She thinks the hubs in the Jeep kit are Milemarker model #426 for the 98-00 Ford Ranger and 01-08 Mazda B Series pickups. See: https://milemarker.com/product/426-hubs/

The unit bearings are Timken brand modified by by the RamManINC for use with the manual hubs. She was not able to tell me which Timken unit bearing specifically, or what exactly is modified. Summit Racing lists four Timken unit bearings for the 98-00 Ford Ranger and four Timken unit bearings for the "Jeep Wrangler. RamManINC is surely modifying one of these eight, but I wasn't able to find out which one.

See: https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/2000/make/ford/model/ranger/product-line/timken-wheel-bearing-and-hub-assemblies
and
https://www.summitracing.com/search...g-and-hub-assemblies/make/jeep/model/wrangler

I was told that the 4340 chromoly stub shafts supplied with the kits are modified and heat treated locally.

I told Kate that my primary concerns were (1) suitability for 35" tires on tough trails, (2) local and/or Internet overnight availability of replacement parts without having to buy custom parts and ship from Texas, and (3) when customers have experienced part failures what parts failed which would indicate which parts should be kept as spares. In response, Kate told me that the company owner, Wayne Brown, has a '14 JK on 37's with one of their unit bearing kits that he thrashes regularly and has yet to break, but she didn't have enough information to respond intelligently to concerns 2 and 3..

Hopefully I can speak with the owner/designer next time.

This link will take you to the You Tube play list for TheRamManINC jeep hub kits: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPjftoRTHsRrW5XHNtP1tXL71Qr6wfVwX
 
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A few more thoughts about the unit bearing manual hub conversion kit and then I'll stop for the evening:

I don't have much concern about the modified Timken unit bearings standing up to 35" tires because OEM Jeep unit bearings stand up to 35's just fine. The stub shafts supplied with the kit look okay, are 4340 chromoly and appear to be as strong as the 4340 shafts marketed to jeep Dana 30/44 owners. However, I am no expert on axle shafts and must defer to those who are. What does concern me is pairing Milemarker 426 manual hubs with those 35" tires.


The Milemarker 426 hubs look tiny to me. What also concerns me is the similarity of design with the AVM #470 aka Rugged Ridge 15001.70 imported from Brazil. Are the Milemarker hubs measurably better? For example, unlike AVM/Rugged Ridge, the Milemarker 426 hub is reported to have no plastic parts. There are reports in the Ranger forums about the tabs on the composite housing used by AVM/Rugged Ridge flexing enough to allow the entire hub to pop off under certain conditions. Do Milemarker 426 hubs have that same issue?

If something this simple would actually work for TJ's with 35's I will be pleasantly surprised. But there's no free lunch and when things seem too good to be true they usually are.

Anyone have thoughts? Links to sites where these hubs are discussed in relation to larger tires and in particular 35's?

Could this unit bearing hub conversion kit be worth a gamble or are the little hairs on the back of your neck standing up while your inner voice screams run away, run away!!
 
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Update on the Milemarker 426 hub used with the modified unit bearing sold by TheRamManINC in Texas:

I spoke with the individual at Milemarker responsible for handling warranty claims on their hubs. He was also the "tech" assigned to answer product questions. He was unable to answer any specific questions about the suitability of the #426 hub for rigs with 35" tires, but did say that he didn't get many back for warranty claims. He said that it would "probably" hold up so long as all the steering and axle components were in good repair and that he didn't have any particular reason not to use them with 35's. However, he did remind me that these are "clip on" hubs.

After that call I did some more digging and was able to confirm that the Milemarker 426, AVM 470 and Rugged Ridge 15001.70 lockout hubs are all made by AVM in Brazil and all have the identical design. The Milemarker is said to be a "premium" version with aluminum housing rather than composite and brass rather than plastic parts inside, but it is essentially the same as the Rugged Ridge hub.

Since the product literature for the Alloy USA manual hub kit that uses the same Rugged Ridge hub warns that their kit is not suitable for tires larger than 33" or axles with lockers, and my TJ is equipped with both 33" tires and a factory locker, I am going to cross the unit bearing conversion kit from TheRamManINC off my list. Someone else will get the opportunity to be the guinea pig.
 
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I have made a decision and pulled the trigger.

As it turns out, Amazon Prime discounted its remaining stock of the Yukon YA WU-08 5x5.5 kit and by price watching with camelcamelcamel.com I was able to purchase the last kit in stock for $1,078.41. That's not the lowest it has ever been, the kit was $905 for about an hour on Black Friday, but you won't hear me complaining because the price increased from $1,078 to $1,610 immediately after my purchase. It should be delivered in 5 days.

I will keep my existing LT315/75R16 Mickey Thompson Baja ATZ P3 tires, buy a new set of 16" wheels with the 5x5.5 lug pattern, and sell my existing 16" wheels with 5x4.5 pattern to defray part of the cost. Even with the purchase of new wheels this project should turn out to be no more expensive than using the YA WU-07 5x4.5 kit that currently sells for $1,284 assuming that I get a reasonable price for my old wheels.

Thanks @mrblaine, and everyone else who contributed.

I'll post an install thread with photos after the project is done.
 
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You might be able to find a cheap set of JK take offs on craigslist to save a few bucks till you find a good set of rims
 
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