I recall the Switchblade being an elaborate multi setting sway bar in a similar way as the Antirock and SwayLoc. If you were to add the Flex Connect to the Switchblade, the result would be what is being explored here.
Currie Antirock vs Disconnects: Why settle for one when you can have both
- Thread starter Chris
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I recall the Switchblade being an elaborate multi setting sway bar in a similar way as the Antirock and SwayLoc. If you were to add the Flex Connect to the Switchblade, the result would be what is being explored here.
Woah, woah, woah...Lets not start throwing around that "e" word! I don't think "progressive" is the right word for this combination. Dual rate might make more sense. Think about the physics...The linear spring will compress until it bottoms out. That is one rate. At that point, the sway bar torsional rate takes over. There isn't a "progression" of rate. There is a shift. Progressive means the force required to compress the spring increases at at some exponential rate vs the compression travel distance. A "normal" spring is linear and will compress a consistent amount for a given force, no matter where it is in its travel (unless its coil bound).
Now...just to confuse things. When this thread came around the first time I thought disco's on an Anti-rock might be worth exploring...with a twist. Flip the disco and buy another pair of slider pins. Put those pins in the first and last hole of the AR. Use the AR on its "tightest" setting on road, but when you get to the trail, move the links to the "loosest" position.
I think this is a solution looking for a problem, as most reports I've heard say the AR is fine on road as well as off and moving the links around is unnecessary.
EDITTED: Last word was "necessary", should have been UNnecessary.
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Well .. you are an expert whether you want to admit it or not
If this is dual rate, is it any better than other (simpler) dual rate swaybar setups like Swayloc? The thing about Currie, you need a well setup Jeep to not feel that it's wandering or has too much sway (and part of it is also our adjustment to driving with it). I like the Swayloc in theory and I have only read/heard good things about it other than the early years when they had some design issues. But these flex link things + antirock also intrigues me.
They are not the same. The SwayLoc is a multiple setting sway bar. So is the Antirock. The means of changing the setting is where they are different.
Adding a dual rate aspect a single setting is an entirely different dynamic.
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So, this FC contraption with a stock sway bar, I wonder how much articulation would be lost even with the weakest spring combo? And how much stability off road would it provide vs. AR?
Wouldn't a torsion bar be progressive? The more you twist it the harder if fights back, right?
Wouldn't a torsion bar be progressive? The more you twist it the harder if fights back, right?
The AR can be fine on the road, depending on how the rest of the suspension is configured. The part of this that intrigues me is changing the behavior of the sway bar as it twists.
Why would articulation be lost?
The behaviors are similar, but different.
Whatever it is, the FC is doing it's thing on top of what the main sway bar is doing.
I still see the Switchblade available. Never knew about this till now.
https://www.extremeterrain.com/jks-front-swaybar-system-jk-tj-9100.html
I meant "better" as in better balance of on-road vs off-road behavior and performance.
Well...I don't think you will get a change in behavior as it twists. If the FC is softer than the swaybar, all the motion will be in the FC and there will be none in the swaybar (until the FC bottoms out). If the FC is stiffer than the swaybar, you have, in essence, a solid link.
From my perspective, it helps to understand how something like an Antirock is behaving in various road and trial conditions. Additionally, one needs to believe that the loosest setting on the Antirock is not necessarily the ideal setting.
The behavior changes for the very reasons you describe. At the start of the twist, both the main bar and the FC combine to create a softer rate than main bar. Once the FC reaches it's solid state, the rate of the main bar takes over. The sway bar transitions to a stiffer rate later on in it's movement. There is less control early on. There is more control later.
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I need to re-word this. How much up travel is lost?
The behaviors are similar, but different.
Whatever it is, the FC is doing it's thing on top of what the main sway bar is doing.
Different how? The way I'm understanding it, the FC is just making the sway bar softer up to the point the springs compress enough to let the sway bar take over its normal job. At some point it will limit up travel before you bumps do.
Unrelated. The action of the sway bar occurs within the limits of travel as defined by the bump stops and the extended shocks or limit straps.
If the existing sway bar is stiff enough to limit articulation before the suspension can reach it's limits of articulation, then the sway bar might be unnecessary stiff.
Yes, but not exponentially harder. That is why progressive is a little difficult to understand. The further I push a linear spring, the more it pushed back against me, right? A lot of people will say that is progressive, but its not. Its linear. Let me try to explain the difference:
Lets say I have a compression spring that has a rate of 100 lbs per inch. Now, to compress that spring one inch, it takes a force of 100 lbs, Right? Force (F) equals Spring rate (k) x Displacement (D)
Now...If I compress that same spring two inches, what is the force required? 200 pounds. And...since Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, that spring is pushing back against me with 200 lbs of force too. Now, to go to 3" of compression, I have to add another 100 lbs of force. Notice that no matter where I "start" to compress the spring, each inch of compression requires a 100 lbs of force.
So, that is a typical linear spring. If you make a graph of the force required to compress the spring "x" distance, the graph will be a straight line.
A progressive rate spring, on the other hand, will require different amounts of force to compress it an inch, depending on where it is in its travel.
Its spring rate may be 100 lbs per inch on the first inch of travel, 200 lbs per inch during the second inch of travel, etc. If I have a spring compressed to one inch with 100 lbs of force then apply another 100 lbs of force, how much more will the spring compress? In this example, only another 1/2 inch. This is a VERY simple progressive spring, but should illustrate the point..Hopefully you can see the curve starting to develop. Each inch of travel require MORE force than the last inch of travel.
Doesn't matter what "type" of spring we're talking about...compression, extension, torsion. They ALL exhibit this behavior and can be tuned during manufacture.
How does the main bar twist, if there isn't anything to push on it? Asked another way, if the FC is compressing, what is pushing on the main bar?
The FC and the main sway bar are a combined rate, the same way a dual rate coil is a combined rate, the same way coilover with stacked coils is a combined rate.
The two (or more) rates don't take turns. It all happens at once. The spring rates shift as one section runs out of travel.
See, that's why I disagreed with @psrivats calling me an expert.
You're correct, of course. Even if the travel is minute, the amount of force going into the FC will cause an equal and opposite reaction in the main swaybar.