Currie Antirock vs Disconnects: Why settle for one when you can have both

[jjvw]

See, that's why I disagreed with @psrivats calling me an expert. You're correct, of course. Even if the travel is minute, the amount of force going into the FC will cause an equal and opposite reaction in the main swaybar.

Let's take my existing Antirock in its middle setting to continue piecing this together. If there is anything to this idea, adding the FC would allow the initial movement to be as soft as (or softer than it) currently is. Then the later movement would be stiffer than it currently is. However, the overall travel would not be reduced.

I hope the repetition and rephrasing isn't too tedious. I'm still muddling through this...

 

[bobthetj03]

Thanks for the explanation Mike. Makes more sense to me now. I agree with Josh as well. As the main swaybar is reacting to the event, the FC is also reacting by compressing the linear spring in the unit. It is just making the main bar softer, per say, until it reaches full compression, then the main bar takes its normal load as if it were solid links.
What I don't agree with Josh is how the stock sway bar hooked up to solid links doesn't limit up travel. It's the very reason folks buy discos. I've flexed both with the sway bar connected and disco'd. You'll lift a rear tire long before your front will kiss the jounces.

 

[jjvw]

...
What I don't agree with Josh is how the stock sway bar hooked up to solid links doesn't limit up travel. It's the very reason folks buy discos. I've flexed both with the sway bar connected and disco'd. You'll lift a rear tire long before your front will kiss the jounces.

The FC creates additional "flex" beyond what the main sway might allow, regardless of what that particular sway bar might be, because it is a variable length sway bar link. It stretches and compresses with the articulation.

If the stock sway bar limits flex, then addition of a Flex Connect will limit the flex less than before.

If an Antirock is set to be just stiff enough to still allow full articulation (as mine is), then the addition of the variable length Flex Connect will allow the Antirock to be set to a stiffer setting without reducing the articulation.

 

[bobthetj03]

The FC creates additional "flex" beyond what the main sway might allow, regardless of what that particular sway bar might be, because it is a variable length sway bar link. It stretches and compresses with the articulation.

If the stock sway bar limits flex, then addition of a Flex Connect will limit the flex less than before.

If an Antirock is set to be just stiff enough to still allow full articulation (as mine is), then the addition of the variable length Flex Connect will allow the Antirock to be set to a stiffer setting without reducing the articulation.

Yes, I understand this. I think we just got lost in translation. I thought you said the stock sway bar hooked up in a stock configuration with solid links won't affect up travel. I think I understand the concept behind the FC based on a stock sway bar. Throw in the AR with the FC and it gets a little cloudy for me, mostly due my lack of understanding of the AR and how its different settings apply.
The way I understand the AR, by setting the like further forward on the arm, you are decreasing the amount of leverage, kind of like adding a 2ft. cheater bar on your 3/8 drive ratchet. By adding the cheater bar you are making it easier to apply force at the fulcrum point, by giving the link more cheater bar, you are making it easier for the wheel to move up.

 

[jjvw]

Changing the settings on the Antirock is simply changing it's rate (leverage against the torsion bar). A lower rate (greater leverage) allows for less resisted movement. A higher rate (lower leverage) adds more resistance. The setting at which this resistance limits the amount of otherwise available flex is specific to the Jeep and it's amount of shock travel.

 

[Mike_H]

Here is the thing about torsion bars...they are VERY stiff and build force very quickly. A coil spring travels a relatively long way to achieve maximum force. A torsion bar doesn't travel all that far...a few degrees...and builds force very quickly. That is why I, incorrectly, said that the torsion bar wouldn't move while the FC is bouncing away underneath it. It will twist...I just don't know how much. I don't know if its perceptible.

My fear is that you would end up with MORE body roll from the FC than you would have with the AR by itself. if you wanted to control that, you'd put such stiff springs in that you may as well run solid links. Without the spring rates of the torsion bar and the FC links, I think someone will have to experiment. IF we had the spring rates and can take some measurements, I'm good enough at the math part I could figure out if there is a setting that would be "different"

 

[mrblaine]

Changing the settings on the Antirock is simply changing it's rate. A lower rate allows for less resisted movement. A higher rate adds more resistance. The setting at which this resistance limits the amount of otherwise available flex is specific to the Jeep and it's amount of shock travel.

I don't believe you are changing the rate of the bar. That's like saying that a heavier rig produces a softer rate in a spring because it collapses further. You are changing the reaction to the fixed rate with the increase or decrease in leverage against it.

 

[jjvw]

...

My fear is that you would end up with MORE body roll from the FC than you would have with the AR by itself. if you wanted to control that, you'd put such stiff springs in that you may as well run solid links. Without the spring rates of the torsion bar and the FC links, I think someone will have to experiment. IF we had the spring rates and can take some measurements, I'm good enough at the math part I could figure out if there is a setting that would be "different"

The initial amount of body roll from the neutral position would likely be more (faster) due to the short section of reduced resistance to movement. But as soon as the FC goes solid, the resistance to movement will increase and the amount of body roll will decrease.

In the case of the AR+FC where is the AR is now set to be stiffer, the body roll would be resisted more than the Antirock alone in it's previous tuned setting.

 

[jjvw]

I don't believe you are changing the rate of the bar. That's like saying that a heavier rig produces a softer rate in a spring because it collapses further. You are changing the reaction to the fixed rate with the increase or decrease in leverage against it.

Correct. The torsion bar doesn't change. Only the leverage acting on it.

Do you think there is any merit to this idea? Or am I way way off in the weeds again?

I think you are doing something similar and more effectively with the DSC reservoirs.

 

[bobthetj03]

$375 for AR, $300 for FC. Either way it's a significant investment. Combining the two makes my head hurt. What if you were to combine the two, put the AR on its stiffest setting, then put the weakest springs in the FC. What advantage would that have vs. just having the AR alone on a looser setting?

 

[jjvw]

$375 for AR, $300 for FC. Either way it's a significant investment. Combining the two makes my head hurt.

It makes my wallet hurt.

What if you were to combine the two, put the AR on its stiffest setting, then put the weakest springs in the FC. What advantage would that have vs. just having the AR alone on a looser setting?

That's the idea!

 

[psrivats]

If you have a stock setup, will FCs bring any additional benefit on road or offroad (other than by use of different springs perhaps)?

$375 for AR, $300 for FC. Either way it's a significant investment. Combining the two makes my head hurt. What if you were to combine the two, put the AR on its stiffest setting, then put the weakest springs in the FC. What advantage would that have vs. just having the AR alone on a looser setting?

That combo becomes comparable to Swayloc manual lever version ($689). And I still don't fully understand if FC+AR usage as @jjvw suggests would be better overall than Swayloc for on-road and off-road. The main advantage of the AR+FC combo is the tunability aspect of the AR, but I think that Swyloc has similar (but may not be as much) tunability.

 

[jjvw]

...



That combo becomes comparable to Swayloc manual lever version ($689). And I still don't fully understand if FC+AR usage as @jjvw suggests would be better overall than Swayloc for on-road and off-road. The main advantage of the AR+FC combo is the tunability aspect of the AR, but I think that Swyloc has similar (but may not be as much) tunability.

The SwayLoc is an Antirock with the ability to switch between two torsion bars of different rates. Think of it as a transfer case that a shifts the rate of the overall system. The Flex Connect is an augmentation to an existing sway bar, be it stock, Antirock, Swayloc, etc... The Flex Connect is effecting the rate of it's sway bar within a very specific section of the overall travel. If it were attached to a SwayLoc or similar, it's contribution to the system would be present on any setting where the torsion bar is active.

 

[bobthetj03]

How do you adjust the shock's static length for different lift heights?

 

[Sancho]

It's also possible that they have no idea what the Antirock does...

It keeps rocks from crushing your oil pan or angry bird grill.

 

[jjvw]

How do you adjust the shock's static length for different lift heights?

It looks like the opposite link will need to match the length of the static unloaded FC link. The instructions list this at 9.75".

 

[bobthetj03]

My interest with the FC is strictly with use of the factory sway bar. In this configuration, I would think improvement could be had in normal surface street driving encountering small events, stop signs, slow, controlled turns and such. Off road, washboard trails, washouts and such would be more comfortable to engage. Would like to know how much up it would provide before hitting the jounces, or if you could even hit them at all. The tuneability having the 3 different springs leaves me wondering. The time and effort it would take to replace the spring puts you back in disco link territory.

 

[jjvw]

My interest with the FC is strictly with use of the factory sway bar. In this configuration, I would think improvement could be had in normal surface street driving encountering small events, stop signs, slow, controlled turns and such. Off road, washboard trails, washouts and such would be more comfortable to engage. Would like to know how much up it would provide before hitting the jounces, or if you could even hit them at all. The tuneability having the 3 different springs leaves me wondering. The time and effort it would take to replace the spring puts you back in disco link territory.

How much flex is there now with the stock bar? The additional amount that the FC would provide should be about equal to the amount of its spring travel from neutral.

The tuning springs shouldn't change this unless their solid heights are different between each other.

 

[bobthetj03]

How much flex is there now with the stock bar? The additional amount that the FC would provide should be about equal to the amount of its spring travel from neutral.

The tuning springs shouldn't change this unless their solid height is different between each other.

I supposed I could forklift flex and simulate it to achieve that data point. Wonder if they would sell just the shock? I already have their quick discos, so in theory, I would only need the FC to complete the package. My current discos measure out at 9" eye to eye, so some adjustment would be needed.

 

[jjvw]

For the purposes of trying to quantify this, I found a post that says a stock connected TJ's RTI score is 530-550. This translates into about 17" of vertical distance from the ground.

The Flex connect looks like it has about an inch of travel from neutral. Can we estimate an increase to 18-18.5"?