Daily Driver Brake Recommendations

[mrblaine]

You are entitled to your opinion

It isn't opinion. It is years of experience trying to quantify something with any level of repeatability to make it meaningful.

I get it, you build and sell brakes, so when asked for this is perhaps is a thorn.

You are fully at a disadvantage not knowing anything about me except that tiny highlighted snippet. If you did, you would never say that about me.

My request comes from years in the racing scene and quantifiable metrics ARE there., as well as those used by OEM in testing and designing of vehicles. ESPECIALLY performance divisions. Unless you are saying that too is bullshit??

And here we go. Who is racing the TJ?

Anyone with sense knows you get brake fade from heat and days are required and cooling periods. Its not all done in 20 mins, thats why theres methods

Oh, so if there is methods that make sense, why then did you above send our Texas homie down the garden path with your "Oh, just go get some numbers for us since there aren't any?? Why would you do that if the process is as difficult as you alluded to?

This is not all just by chance, or seat of pants That doesnt fly in the corporate world of investing millions into designs. We are at the hobbyist level so you improvise and build a database

I dare you to start with your TJ, I double dog dare you.

You have your way of doing things, thats fine
I stand by my experiences and what Ive seen in the engineering side. If my askin upsets anyone , then simply ignore it.

How many TJ's have you built brakes for?

We can agree to disagree and be civil still
I would still enjoy seeing people quantify products esp on the wide variety of Jeep builds. Youtube sensations come from these representations people love to see

I'm always civil until I'm faced with willful ignorance.

 

[mrblaine]

Of course it does

You guys are getting quite defensive and aggressively accusatory over someone just makin inquiries for field performance tests caught on a video recording

Because you can't do it, that's why, you are unable to and there is only one way to prove me wrong.

 

[Apparition]

It started as a “ cant pass this up” cash deal

I had no use for it and already have too many toys. However my youngest is 9 and I figured why not just grab it, and rebuild it ground up for when hes 16. So that doesnt mean I wont play with it.

New hardtop here, already HVLP Rustoleum painted it this weekend and that is ready. New ragtop came on it

So thats the goal, with some suspension and brake upgrades and maybe a turbo. How far will I go?? That comes with research and Im still knee deep in it.

I have packages showing up daily for weeks
I have car addictions and love modifying for performance. Interior & stereo is all here, now I need a new lift and suspension and brakes

Still trying to figure out those

I literally have a gas tank in my bedroom and parts for my new build all over the house. So I can relate to boxes showing up daily.

I have two Jeeps one that’s in my avatar and another that’s in progress.

I had the one in my avatar in Moab a couple weeks ago wheeling some fairly steep obstacles. I wouldn’t trust anyone else for my brakes. I’ve had BMB on the Jeep since shortly after I bought it in 2017. My wife has said many times that she’s very thankful for those brakes, she’s afraid of heights and when you’re looking at a couple thousand foot drop that is potentially in-play it’s kinda important. Or even the entrance to get down to the bottom of hells gate would be a bad day if the brakes aren’t something you can rely on.

The other Jeep is a significant project as the tub and frame are about all I’m keeping. But, there’s only one person I would trust with brakes on that and it’s Mr Blaine. Those boxes are currently in the garage waiting on me to get my lazy ass in gear and get to work on that Jeep.

I’ve never tested for numbers but I have tested for the people who pull out in front of me, the red light that I could have ran but didn’t have to because I can stop and as I said I’ve tested them in the environment where they have to work or I’ll be testing out that factory cage or worse.

 

[CreepinDeth]

I appreciate the input Apparition

I feel Ive just realized the limitations on this particular aspect of the build on this arena

 

[TexasTJ2004]

For shits n giggles
If possible, Run some brake tests before and after and document the results. Acrual stopping distances @ X speed

Seems its an uncommon thing in this particular hobby lol

I don't have any special measurement tools. All I will be able to see is that is after BMB pads, the braking will be better. Today I am unable to lock tires does not matter at which speed. I am running 31sx10.5R15 Goodrichs. They are hard to lock tires, as they are wider than stock by at least an inch.
I know guys running with the BigBrakeKit from BMB, and their rigs with 35s stop as good as my wife's fancy new SUV. Never seen TJs or YJs stopping like this. I am on 31s, so I stick with just BPB pads and quality disks.

 

[rasband]

I don't have any special measurement tools. All I will be able to see is that is after BMB pads, the braking will be better. Today I am unable to lock tires does not matter at which speed. I am running 31sx10.5R15 Goodrichs. They are hard to lock tires, as they are wider than stock by at least an inch.
I know guys running with the BigBrakeKit from BMB, and their rigs with 35s stop as good as my wife's fancy new SUV. Never seen TJs or YJs stopping like this. I am on 31s, so I stick with just BPB pads and quality disks.

Be sure to follow the break in procedure to get the best performance. After which you'll want to be marginally more enthusiastic in your braking to keep them sharp (or plan to bed them again).

 

[TexasTJ2004]

From a design standpoint, how is the factory TJ braking system deficient?

If you look at any SUV with same weight from same era, you will find much bigger, most likely dual piston calipers. WJ is in the similar weight ballpark of 4K pounds (taking into account our hardtop, winches, heavy front bumper, rear tire carrier bumper and heavy jack - have all this on my rig), and it comes from the factory with dual piston caliper (Ecabano or whatever the Japanese name it has) and larger disk with more contact area between pad and the disk. It has much better brakes. Its dual piston caliper is similar to something that is in the BMB BigBrakeKit.
So, yes, the factory brake system is sufficient, if you don't start to overload it, don't put oversize tires, keep distance from the vehicle in the front, and don't forget to brake with transmission/engine when you go downhill, otherwise you might overheat the brakes easily. It cannot be driven like a modern car w/o better brakes.

 

[TexasTJ2004]

Be sure to follow the break in procedure to get the best performance. After which you'll want to be marginally more enthusiastic in your braking to keep them sharp (or plan to bed them again).

Yeah, I need to plan a route that will enable me to do all this. It is not an easy procedure I have to say, but needs to be followed.

 

[MikeE024]

Yeah, I need to plan a route that will enable me to do all this. It is not an easy procedure I have to say, but needs to be followed.

Nighttime usually helps me find a decent enough location for bedding adventures.

 

[MikeE024]

I replaced what came on the front of the rig with BMB pads (and centric rotors), and the results provided me a level of safety I didn’t realize I was missing. I greatly appreciated the stopping help.

Example: With a rig loaded down with new lockers, gears, axles, BBK and manual hub kit, a vehicle pulled out in front of me when I was going about 35 mph on my way to the re-gear shop. The BMB pads actually locked up the 35s when I stabbed the brakes that’s how well they handled the load that they overcame. I slowed down with basically no room to spare.

The pads also gripped the rotors much better in steep descents in the rocks where control is priority.

I’m happy with the 16” BMB BBK but I was more than safe with BMB pads in the front stock calipers. They are legit no bs, and I believe you’ll agree if you go with them.

Edit: grammar/words

 

[rasband]

I replaced what came on the rig with BMB pads (and centric rotors), and the results provided me a level of safety I didn’t realize I was missing. I greatly appreciated the stopping help.

Example: With a rig loaded down with new lockers, axles, and a BBK, a vehicle pulled out in front of me when I was going about 35 mpg on my way to the re-gear shop. The BMB pads actually locked up the 35s when I stabbed the brakes that’s how well they handled the load that it overcame. I slowed down with basically no room to spare.

The pads also gripped the rotors much better in steep descents in the rocks where control is priority.

I’m happy with the 16” BMB BBK but I was more than safe with BMB pads for the front stock calipers. They are legit no bs, and I believe you’ll agree if you go with them.

Edit: grammar

Too bad you didn't measure each iteration, otherwise we could give our new friend numbers he/she/they/it may finally be happy with.

 

[TexasTJ2004]

I replaced what came on the rig with BMB pads (and centric rotors), and the results provided me a level of safety I didn’t realize I was missing. I greatly appreciated the stopping help.

Example: With a rig loaded down with new lockers, axles, and a BBK, a vehicle pulled out in front of me when I was going about 35 mpg on my way to the re-gear shop. The BMB pads actually locked up the 35s when I stabbed the brakes that’s how well they handled the load that they overcame. I slowed down with basically no room to spare.

The pads also gripped the rotors much better in steep descents in the rocks where control is priority.

I’m happy with the 16” BMB BBK but I was more than safe with BMB pads in the front stock calipers. They are legit no bs, and I believe you’ll agree if you go with them.

Edit: grammar

You initially didn't have the BBK and used only the pads on 35s?

 

[MikeE024]

You initially didn't have the BBK and used only the pads on 35s?

Indeed, mated to new centric premium rotors up front (and new pins, boots, and Napa Sil-Glyde lube).

I installed Thermo-Quiet pads and centric premium rotors in the rear.

Since then, I locked up the 35” tires again with the BBK installed going around 40mph when someone ran an established red light after hesitating (and almost got blasted). That was a scary one due to the guy being so vulnerable.

Too bad you didn't measure each iteration, otherwise we could give our new friend numbers he/she/they/it may finally be happy with.

Dang that’s true. My tool kit didn’t include a measuring device back then.

 

[JasterMereel42]

I replaced what came on the front of the rig with BMB pads (and centric rotors), and the results provided me a level of safety I didn’t realize I was missing. I greatly appreciated the stopping help.

Example: With a rig loaded down with new lockers, axles, and a BBK, a vehicle pulled out in front of me when I was going about 35 mpg on my way to the re-gear shop. The BMB pads actually locked up the 35s when I stabbed the brakes that’s how well they handled the load that they overcame. I slowed down with basically no room to spare.

The pads also gripped the rotors much better in steep descents in the rocks where control is priority.

I’m happy with the 16” BMB BBK but I was more than safe with BMB pads in the front stock calipers. They are legit no bs, and I believe you’ll agree if you go with them.

Edit: grammar/words

I have do replace the brakes on my 2000 TJ. I think you've just convinced me to go with Centric rotors and BMB pads on the stock calipers myself.

 

[jjvw]

If you look at any SUV with same weight from same era, you will find much bigger, most likely dual piston calipers. WJ is in the similar weight ballpark of 4K pounds (taking into account our hardtop, winches, heavy front bumper, rear tire carrier bumper and heavy jack - have all this on my rig), and it comes from the factory with dual piston caliper (Ecabano or whatever the Japanese name it has) and larger disk with more contact area between pad and the disk. It has much better brakes. Its dual piston caliper is similar to something that is in the BMB BigBrakeKit.
So, yes, the factory brake system is sufficient, if you don't start to overload it, don't put oversize tires, keep distance from the vehicle in the front, and don't forget to brake with transmission/engine when you go downhill, otherwise you might overheat the brakes easily. It cannot be driven like a modern car w/o better brakes.

I was hoping the creepy guy would offer up something.

 

[JasterMereel42]

Indeed, mated to new centric premium rotors up front (and new pins, boots, and Napa Sil-Glyde lube).

I installed Thermo-Quiet pads and centric premium rotors in the rear.

Since then, I locked up the 35” tires again with the BBK installed going around 40mph when someone ran an established red light after hesitating (and then almost getting blasted). That was a scary one due to the guy being so vulnerable.



Dang that’s true. My tool kit didn’t include a measuring device back then.

Did you swap out the drum brakes for disc brakes on the rear?

 

[MikeE024]

Did you swap out the drum brakes for disc brakes on the rear?

My model has discs in the rear as well.

 

[mrblaine]

If you look at any SUV with same weight from same era, you will find much bigger, most likely dual piston calipers. WJ is in the similar weight ballpark of 4K pounds (taking into account our hardtop, winches, heavy front bumper, rear tire carrier bumper and heavy jack - have all this on my rig), and it comes from the factory with dual piston caliper (Ecabano or whatever the Japanese name it has) and larger disk with more contact area between pad and the disk. It has much better brakes. Its dual piston caliper is similar to something that is in the BMB BigBrakeKit.
So, yes, the factory brake system is sufficient, if you don't start to overload it, don't put oversize tires, keep distance from the vehicle in the front, and don't forget to brake with transmission/engine when you go downhill, otherwise you might overheat the brakes easily. It cannot be driven like a modern car w/o better brakes.

For clarity, the early version of the WJ came with the Teves calipers which are at best a terrible design for a saddle mount verison. Whoever thought building a saddle that doesn't connect on the outboard side of the caliper is a moron. They had lots of issues with run out, DTV, and just generally a crap set up. All they did was change over to the Akebono caliper to fix it and it is an outstanding caliper. High rigidity in the bridge, robust, very nice piece. That fixed the vast majority of the problems other than those there were owner inflicted which there are more than a few of.

The TJ should have had a version of that braking system about the same time the WJ did because of how crappy the TJ caliper and knuckle are.

 

[mrblaine]

Yeah, I need to plan a route that will enable me to do all this. It is not an easy procedure I have to say, but needs to be followed.

You just need to get them into hot fade, cool them by driving so the moving air does it, and get them into hot fade again. Repeat that after they cool down overnight and they'll be good to go to start the bedding process fully. At each stop to induce hot fade, you are pushing on the pedal like you are trying to lock them up. Don't, but be reasonable enthusiastic.

 

[TexasTJ2004]

I was hoping the creepy guy would offer up something.

Look, I understand CreepinDeth. He wants data, which is completely legit.
I also wanted data, but decided to invest time into researching all brake options,
WJ swap with OEM pads,
WJ swap with BMB pads,
OEM system with BMB pads,
all the options before but with EBC yellow pads,
Big Brake Kit from BMB,
Power stop stuff,
But after all this came to conclusion based on other folks online and in real life that:
EBC Yellow stuff is better and more expensive that OEM. This is based on people who actually used it to replace OEM and found it performing better.
BMB is more expensive and better than EVC yellow stuff. This is based on people who actually switched from EBC to BMB.