Dave Kishpaugh's (Jeep West) geometry correction brackets are now available
- Thread starter psrivats
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It hops less, almost nonexistent, because it has lower AS. As I have read and researched it is easy to see. I am sure the shocks help somewhat too, but mostly a geometry thing that is helping.
The thing that keeps getting confused here,is that for some reason, we are comparing these to the Savvy mid arm. Why? These brackets were developed to solve a different issue at a different price point. They Will improve geometry and handling.
The correction brackets will get you a bit closer than halfway back to stock rear geometry from a 4” lift. If that works for you then give them a try.
The correction brackets will get you a bit closer than halfway back to stock rear geometry from a 4” lift. If that works for you then give them a try.
OK. A few comments.
First, longer arm suspensions are not inherently bad, as seems to be the general consensus on this and other threads. What gets lost is that the issue is trying to buy and install a bolt on long arm kit, which always gives up geometry for ease of installation - sometimes very badly. My arms are longer than most, and a bit longer than a mid arm. But I also run a lot of suspension travel, which would not be a good combination with shorter arms. It is all custom, and about 85% antisquat. And decent clearance, as my lower arms are not in the stock location, but rather even with both axles. It is all how you build it, and its intention. Long arm suspensions do not inherently bounce, as was state above. Ask anyone who has followed me up a climb. Ever seen a short arm suspension on an ultra4 racer, or a rock bouncer? The needs there drive the geometry.
Second. JJ. Sometimes the toughest thing to do is be critical of a rig that we have put so much time and effort into. I’m sometimes guilty of that myself. We go way back on that other forum, but methinks that thou protests too much. Your rig bounced up that climb, and it was not caused by the bump in the rock face. That would cause one bounce. The follow up bounces were all about the suspension. Why not look at that and see how you could improve it? There are things that can be done. Post up your actual measurements on the link calculator and start a discussion. That would be a positive use of this thread.
Third, Dave’s bracket approach bounces on a hill climb. That is a direct coorolation to the high antisquat. But it is a definite improvement over a standard 4” lift, because it reduces antisquat. Is it as good as the mid arm? No, but you cant beat that improvement for $160 If that fits your budget.
Finally, there has been a lot of supposition and wild ass guessing on this thread. Have you wondered why Blaine has not engaged here?
First, longer arm suspensions are not inherently bad, as seems to be the general consensus on this and other threads. What gets lost is that the issue is trying to buy and install a bolt on long arm kit, which always gives up geometry for ease of installation - sometimes very badly. My arms are longer than most, and a bit longer than a mid arm. But I also run a lot of suspension travel, which would not be a good combination with shorter arms. It is all custom, and about 85% antisquat. And decent clearance, as my lower arms are not in the stock location, but rather even with both axles. It is all how you build it, and its intention. Long arm suspensions do not inherently bounce, as was state above. Ask anyone who has followed me up a climb. Ever seen a short arm suspension on an ultra4 racer, or a rock bouncer? The needs there drive the geometry.
Second. JJ. Sometimes the toughest thing to do is be critical of a rig that we have put so much time and effort into. I’m sometimes guilty of that myself. We go way back on that other forum, but methinks that thou protests too much. Your rig bounced up that climb, and it was not caused by the bump in the rock face. That would cause one bounce. The follow up bounces were all about the suspension. Why not look at that and see how you could improve it? There are things that can be done. Post up your actual measurements on the link calculator and start a discussion. That would be a positive use of this thread.
Third, Dave’s bracket approach bounces on a hill climb. That is a direct coorolation to the high antisquat. But it is a definite improvement over a standard 4” lift, because it reduces antisquat. Is it as good as the mid arm? No, but you cant beat that improvement for $160 If that fits your budget.
Finally, there has been a lot of supposition and wild ass guessing on this thread. Have you wondered why Blaine has not engaged here?
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
I'm not sure people are having trouble with Dave's brackets outside of Moab. I have not had any bounce around where I live with 5000x shocks, were way too soft.
What we saw in the video is what one might expect when watching a rig with an AS of 125-135 climb. As well as what could be expected when a rig has close to an AS of 100 on the same hill.
Whatever Brian. Enjoy your geometry correction brackets. I've seen what they can do.
It good to see that there is at least one person here who isn't delusional.
I think the comparison is fair. The savvy mid arm and Dave's brackets seem to be the only tj suspension products that are advertised to return the feel of the geometry of a lifted tj back closer to stock. Savvy clearly states this in their product description. I inferred that the geometry correction brackets have a similar goal given their name.
You don't think the two ends being connected by the frame might have anything to do with it? You can't compare mine to yours. Long wheelbase and big tires cover a lot of sins.
In addition to some professional courtesy, you're not that far off.
I think we're going to need you to drive back to Moab this week so we can see how much bounce that bump causes.
I can report back when I get more seat time in Arizona. I have one very difficult local trail under my belt with the brackets here with no hopping but I’d like to do more climbs and video.
Pressurized
TJ Enthusiast
It's sad that we have reached the dick measuring contest stage when discussing a $160 mod that has a significant improvement in geometry. As I said early on, my wife noticed the difference and had NO IDEA what was done... No placebo effect, just said "hey, your Jeep feels better, what did you do?" I had her JKU for the day for an oil change and tire rotation so she took mine to work.
Earlier we suddenly went on the "oh, it's for street, not offroad".... Really? So it got better on the street and that must make it worse offroad? Because we all know 180% or even 160% anti squat would be better than 120% or even 100%... Well, at least thats what the argument seemed to be. SMDH
It's clear... Agenda driven. Sad.
I'll get some video's eventually, but I'm down and out at the moment with a transfer case issue.
I think I’m going to make a drifting video. I can’t stop. I’ve basically tried to flip the Jeep around corners I’ve hit them so fast and the rear stays so planted it’s insane.
Go find the other “Dick measuring” threads. What do they have in common?
If you do I can try to make one of my mid arm, front antirock on the loosest setting and no rear sway bar. Then we can compare and talk about how our lines are 2" different for 1000 more pages
Almost. There are still axle torque forces being generated by the front axle but unlike the rear the lower arm is under tension and the upper arm under compression. So the ability of the chassis to be upset by arm geometry still exists it is just to a different degree.
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