Elvis Trail and Box Canyon—Florence, Arizona
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Here’s a shot of the first ledge of the waterfall from above...
My first attempt up the center crack... here's me saying "f$@& I should have installed the sliders before this!"
Boatsides are looking better and better...
Some more photos (note: it was my camera but a "junior" camera(wo)man running the shutter)...
This was a fun one that @Dale W killed (after his 32RH stopped running dry!)
YJ carnage...
YJ guy is a good bud of mine and is a solid wheeler... this is a rebuilt-rig, with new front stretch and steering. He's never been afraid to send it, though sometimes the trail wins! This is a failure prone area with these motors - luckily he has a good running 5.2L Magnum that I'll be helping him swap once he saves up some funds!
Here's the video of us helping that JTUR up the waterfall at the end of Box Canyon:
My first attempt up the center crack... here's me saying "f$@& I should have installed the sliders before this!"
Boatsides are looking better and better...
Some more photos (note: it was my camera but a "junior" camera(wo)man running the shutter)...
This was a fun one that @Dale W killed (after his 32RH stopped running dry!)
YJ carnage...
YJ guy is a good bud of mine and is a solid wheeler... this is a rebuilt-rig, with new front stretch and steering. He's never been afraid to send it, though sometimes the trail wins! This is a failure prone area with these motors - luckily he has a good running 5.2L Magnum that I'll be helping him swap once he saves up some funds!
Here's the video of us helping that JTUR up the waterfall at the end of Box Canyon:
OP
Damn, I wouldn’t want to be out in that without a heater in my Jeep. I suspect heated seats are a nice accessory as well.
OP
Who was that girl taking the photos?
I can tell he’s not afraid to send it in that YJ. The moment he got in it I just knew something was coming
I saw your rockers hit in real time. It cringed when it happened
It was Billy's (XJ guy) daughter - first time running a DSLR... she got quite good at it later on in the trail!Who was that girl taking the photos?
I can tell he’s not afraid to send it in that YJ. The moment he got in it I just knew something was coming
And that YJ is on 33"s with worn-out 2.5L, factory 4.10's, and only a front locker. I'll give him credit where it's due
OP
Back in Oregon I always said that if you go wheeling and someone shows up in an old XJ or a YJ, you can be certain something is going to break or someone is going to get crazy and “send it”It was Billy's (XJ guy) daughter - first time running a DSLR... she got quite good at it later on in the trail!
And that YJ is on 33"s with worn-out 2.5L, factory 4.10's, and only a front locker. I'll give him credit where it's due
I enjoy the entertainment, so I am not complaining.
We need to bring her along more often to take good photos.
Take off your skirt and put on a jacket. Helps with the below freezing highway drives.
Watching people send it on the trail is always fun unless you're the one responsible for getting them out. I tried spotting a stranger in a landcruiser over a simple obstacle (for a TJ at least) that had no bypass in Colorado. After a few attempts, it was obvious that IFS combined with no front locker was making it virtually impossible. Once he started putting his foot down, I just walked away. No way I'm going to be even slightly responsible for a blown CV on a landcruiser that I have no idea how to work on.
Watching people send it on the trail is always fun unless you're the one responsible for getting them out. I tried spotting a stranger in a landcruiser over a simple obstacle (for a TJ at least) that had no bypass in Colorado. After a few attempts, it was obvious that IFS combined with no front locker was making it virtually impossible. Once he started putting his foot down, I just walked away. No way I'm going to be even slightly responsible for a blown CV on a landcruiser that I have no idea how to work on.
I always give those guys credit where due as long as (a) I don't have to fix their broken crap (b) I don't have to recover them (c) I don't have to tow them back to tow truck access (d) their stupidity doesn't hold up the group.And that YJ is on 33"s with worn-out 2.5L, factory 4.10's, and only a front locker. I'll give him credit where it's due
Violate any of those without unanimous permission from the group and they get two trips with me for the price of one. First, and last.
Naw, just put on a longer skirt - and a couple more underneath it!
My philosophy is pretty close actually and if he broke something expected (like an axle shaft or driveshaft) I may be singing a different tune...
I wasn’t near him when it busted - did anyone see what happened?? Did he whack his motor or did he whack the shackle mount?
Apparently these cast aluminum brackets are a common failure point (a handful of companies sell solid plate steel replacements : https://browndogindustries.com/browndogindustries.com/93-95-wrangler-yj-2-5l-5.aspx).
Stock Dana 35's are a common failure. That doesn't mean you get to show up with one and make mine and everyone else's life miserable when you break it.
OP
Well we all know Dana 35s are ticking time bombs anyways, just like OPDAs and all 05-06 Jeep Wranglers
I wish I had been standing in front of him to see what happened. I don't know who was spotting him, but I feel like he had taken a number of wrong lines.
I'm still trying to figure out how the motor mount snapped.
A Dana 35 is not even in the same class as an 05-06 TJ or an OPDA. You can show up with both of those with a reasonable expectation they will finish the trail. The same is not true for a stock 35.Well we all know Dana 35s are ticking time bombs anyways, just like OPDAs and all 05-06 Jeep Wranglers
I was standing in front of him but I didn’t really “see” what happened underneath. He was trying to get up that far left V and was absolutely hammering it. If the rocks hadn’t been so slick it definitely would have been an axle shaft first. So I’m guessing it was just too much torque for the mount to handle.
OP
Yeah, he was really heavy on the throttle since the get go, which I felt was a mistake.
Everyone has a different driving style, but when I get to that point I usually just back up a bit and pick a different line.
I also wonder if being a YJ and having leaf springs, if that has anything to do with it as well. I say that only because I know that leaf springs don't generally articulate the same way as a coil spring.
Now that I think about it, I think he does have an F8.8 back there (but definitely open diff on 4.10’s)...
And yes, wheeling a YJ is a different animal and it’s even taking some adjustment from me (this is only my second time on coils!). On a leaf spring rig, the entire axle tends to lift, rather than just the wheel. You can get an axle to flex but it usually needs counter forces on the opposing axle (front to rear or vice versa).
As an example, here’s my old YJ flexing out and checking bumps:
To get the driver-front to hit the bump, I needed to have dropped the front-passenger tire AND pushed up on the passenger rear (and keep in mind, this was considered a top-tier set of springs and shackles).
Since they want to lift the front when you approach an obstacle, you need more momentum than you would with a more compliant suspension. Check out my run at the staircase at the Coves and think about how this would go with a TJ - it’s quite different!
OP
Okay, maybe that's some of what I was seeing then. It seemed like he was almost charging into some of those obstacles, but that's probably the "momentum" you're referring to. I've never even driven a YJ (let alone wheeled one), so I had no idea.
I will say though that that 4.10 open rear end isn't helping him any in terms of traction. The time I forgot to turn my lockers on I wasn't even able to get up one of those lines that I normally would have been able to.
Fucking selectable lockers. Now I'm thinking I just want auto lockers. Never have to remember to turn them on, and out here in the desert where the whether is almost always the same, do I even stand to gain anything from selectable lockers?
When you get the steering fixed, you turn the selectable rear on and leave it on until the trail is done. The front can be either, auto is preferred due to simplifying stuff and there is no downside.
Currie recommends an auto-front and selectable rear since this setup will have almost zero change to your daily or street driving, but will have some benefits off-road especially on the tight/narrow trails here in AZ. He's got a good video of a rig with this setup where he turned off the rear-locker for a tight turn to show the difference:
I went dual e-lockers since this rig was originally being built for my daughter and we will be living in a snowy climate soon, where having two open differentials is advantageous (especially for new drivers). Had I built these axles for me, I probably would have went dual Detroits. They have some quirks on-road (especially with a manual trans), but they're simple, reliable and once you know how to get them to lock/unlock with throttle manipulation, they're manageable on-road and off.
Unlike @mrblaine I usually leave both "off" until it's obstacle time, where I then will switch them on as I think they're needed (or sometimes I just leave them off and learn to practice my lines
). This is because as Currie pointed out, turning radius is a mother-f&%@#% with them on. They also tend to "push" when off-camber (just like a spool) so on narrow, twisty climbs you're constantly fighting them to stay centered on the trail. For many trails, this doesn't matter, but if you hit up some of the mountain trails that take you up and over the mountain tops, it can get sketchy.This pic, like many, never does it justice. This is a tight, long, narrow trail that gains >2000 ft of elevation in a short while (starts in the saddle, off-camera to the right)!
This climb starts at the ~25:50 mark on the video. People that have run this with spools are constantly fighting to keep centered and away from the wall or the edge. An autolocker in this situation would be able to be manipulated by throttle application (though not always easy with a manual trans where you're on a constant climb). With a selectable, I left mine off most of the time and where I hit slick outcrops, I turned them back off.
OP
I need to bypass the stupid factory wiring on these Rubicon lockers and hook them up to independent switches. That's what's causing me all this grief.
The Rubicon rear locker with the LSD concerns me since it seems like a somewhat common failure point, but it sounds like if I keep it locked the entire time, it isn't much of a concern?
Currie recommends an auto-front and selectable rear since this setup will have almost zero change to your daily or street driving, but will have some benefits off-road especially on the tight/narrow trails here in AZ. He's got a good video of a rig with this setup where he turned off the rear-locker for a tight turn to show the difference:
I went dual e-lockers since this rig was originally being built for my daughter and we will be living in a snowy climate soon, where having two open differentials is advantageous (especially for new drivers). Had I built these axles for me, I probably would have went dual Detroits. They have some quirks on-road (especially with a manual trans), but they're simple, reliable and once you know how to get them to lock/unlock with throttle manipulation, they're manageable on-road and off.
Unlike @mrblaine I usually leave both "off" until it's obstacle time, where I then will switch them on as I think they're needed (or sometimes I just leave them off and learn to practice my lines
View attachment 208555
This pic, like many, never does it justice. This is a tight, long, narrow trail that gains >2000 ft of elevation in a short while (starts in the saddle, off-camera to the right)!
This climb starts at the ~25:50 mark on the video. People that have run this with spools are constantly fighting to keep centered and away from the wall or the edge. An autolocker in this situation would be able to be manipulated by throttle application (though not always easy with a manual trans where you're on a constant climb). With a selectable, I left mine off most of the time and where I hit slick outcrops, I turned them back off.
This is interesting, because I thought that it was the front locker you wanted to keep engaged and the rear you wanted to disengage when doing tighter turns. That's what Josh and those other guys were saying in another thread if I recall.
That looks like a cool trail, and I can totally understand why if you were in the snow, that locker setup might be much more advantageous than me living here in the dry and never, ever planning to wheel in the snow or anything like that.
I've watched @starkey480 with his auto lockers front and rear and he never seems to have any trouble with anything (and he doesn't have to worry about turning on or off the lockers), so that's where I got the idea.
At some point I'll probably replace the lockers anyways, which is why I was curious. It sounds like Blaine is suggesting a selectable rear and an auto locker for the front. I'll take that recommendation since the type of climate / terrain he is wheeling in is identical to what we are wheeling in here in Arizona.
Where is that climb / trail?