Floaty suspension


mrblaine

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I believe the OP was talking about off the shelf out of the box shocks...no?

I didn't see anything from the OP indicating getting a set of 4 tuned and specifically customized for his or her rig. Matter of fact the OP hinted at simply trying Rancho 5000x shocks. Again I didn't see anything in there to indicate getting anything tuned and valved specifically for his or her rig.
It lack of reading comprehension a prerequisite for shops?
My illustrations were simply that, illustrations to show that gas charging a shock is not indicative of how it feels.
 

Rubicon88

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It lack of reading comprehension a prerequisite for shops?
My illustrations were simply that, illustrations to show that gas charging a shock is not indicative of how it feels.
I didn't suggest otherwise...I described what the 5000x was and what the bkack max was.
The 5000x out of the box is more firm than the Black Max. The BM out of the box is smoother than the 5000x.

Nothing more, nothing less.

All that said I can tell you the masses buy more out of the box than customized shocks. It's not even close.
Shocks reputation guilty by association? Perhaps...but it's association none the less.
If a customer gets a Rancho 5000x and then gets a Rancho 7000 (which annoyingly aren't available for the immediate future ) they are going to say there is a difference. If they inquire of the gas charge and find out the 7000 has 275 psi...and the 5000x has 150 psi... nothing else matters right there.
Everything else will go on deaf ear.
 

mrblaine

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I didn't suggest otherwise...I described what the 5000x was and what the bkack max was.
The 5000x out of the box is more firm than the Black Max. The BM out of the box is smoother than the 5000x.
You stated the following in your other post-
No disrespect to the Rancho's but it appears you want something rather cushy...

The Rancho's are a 150 psi shock.

The Black max is a hydraulic shock.

By default the Rancho's with a nitro charge will be more firm.

The Black Max more forgiving.
By default, the Ranchos with a nitro charge will be more firm. Did you mean something else and didn't perhaps express it clearly?
Nothing more, nothing less.

All that said I can tell you the masses buy more out of the box than customized shocks. It's not even close.
Shocks reputation guilty by association? Perhaps...but it's association none the less.
If a customer gets a Rancho 5000x and then gets a Rancho 7000 (which annoyingly aren't available for the immediate future ) they are going to say there is a difference. If they inquire of the gas charge and find out the 7000 has 275 psi...and the 5000x has 150 psi... nothing else matters right there.
Everything else will go on deaf ear.
Deaf ears or no, don't perpetuate the falsehood.
 

Rubicon88

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The
You stated the following in your other post-

By default, the Ranchos with a nitro charge will be more firm. Did you mean something else and didn't perhaps express it clearly?

Deaf ears or no, don't perpetuate the falsehood.
I spoke of nothing but out of the box shocks which I believe the OP was referring to. Perhaps you read something on the OP's post about getting some custom built. I must have missed that.

Is the Rancho 5000x out of the box more firm than the Black Max.
Yes or no? I'll answer that...The Rancho 5000x is more firm than the Black Max.
One is a Nitro shock and the other is a Hydro shock.

If you want to go into the realm of customizing and tuning and valving that's fine but I can tell you 90 percent of the shock buying world gives no care about that... Whatsoever. They want to buy...install and run. I deal with all vehicles of all sizes, shapes and weights.

Are you suggesting regular out of the box nitro shocks (anyone) by default are not more firm than hydro shocks by default(anyone) ? No customizing, tuning etc.
From box to rig.
 

jjvw

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The

I spoke of nothing but out of the box shocks which I believe the OP was referring to. Perhaps you read something on the OP's post about getting some custom built. I must have missed that.

Is the Rancho 5000x out of the box more firm than the Black Max.
Yes or no? I'll answer that...The Rancho 5000x is more firm than the Black Max.
One is a Nitro shock and the other is a Hydro shock.

If you want to go into the realm of customizing and tuning and valving that's fine but I can tell you 90 percent of the shock buying world gives no care about that... Whatsoever. They want to buy...install and run. I deal with all vehicles of all sizes, shapes and weights.

Are you suggesting regular out of the box nitro shocks (anyone) by default are not more firm than hydro shocks by default(anyone) ? No customizing, tuning etc.
From box to rig.
No one is questioning your assessment of how these two shocks behave. What is being challenged is the highlighting of the nitro charge and it's effect on ride quality.
 

mrblaine

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No one is questioning your assessment of how these two shocks behave. What is being challenged is the highlighting of the nitro charge and it's effect on ride quality.
We're way past that now. Now we are in the realm of fully bizarre since that has been pointed out to him at least 5 times and pointedly ignored each time.
 
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twistableframe0

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Huh?

I was simply talking about Rancho 5000x out of the box that has a 150 psi nitro charge being more firm than the black max which is a hydro shock.

That said the black max is eons better than the old school hydro's of yesteryear.

Again unless I something the OP wasn't talking about what "could be" as in customizing a particular shock. Just taking out of the box and going...and regular old out of the box shocks unmolested there absolutely is a difference in firmness.

Which one is better...not one person here can answer that question except for their own ride. Driver A likes something similar but a littke more "xyz" than driver B ..and driver C likes something altogether differently than driver's A&B.

What might seem like a tank or water bed to one driver might be a dream to another.
I'm young so the ride doesn't have to be plush just better then almost bouncing my head off the roll bar or door from excessive back and forth motion. I appreciate the input a ton!
 

AndyG

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We're way past that now. Now we are in the realm of fully bizarre since that has been pointed out to him at least 5 times and pointedly ignored each time.
This may not be relevant, but in the dirt bike world soft springs allowed bikes to ride in the harsh part of the shock, which was valved for big hits, and firmer springs allowed the bike to stsy up im the stroke , feeling softer, and all the movement speed was dialed in by the valving.

I always thought that was interesting. Ive also seen tire brand and load range and type chamge more of the feel than the shocks.

not trying to add to the fray or expound , i always tend to think there is more than one thing that matters and the cumulative of choices can make one perform better ...if they are good choices.
 

Gollywomper

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I have not rode in a rig with the Black Max shocks. But usually hydro shocks are cheap for a reason. They generally dont offer great control. If you want a cheap shock then the BM or Rancho 5000x. If you want a bit more control then the Rancho 9000 may be the answer. They run not quite twice as much as the 5000x but are adjustable. They are not perfect but are a decent shock in the $90 each range.
 

mrblaine

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This may not be relevant, but in the dirt bike world soft springs allowed bikes to ride in the harsh part of the shock, which was valved for big hits, and firmer springs allowed the bike to stsy up im the stroke , feeling softer, and all the movement speed was dialed in by the valving.

I always thought that was interesting. Ive also seen tire brand and load range and type chamge more of the feel than the shocks.

not trying to add to the fray or expound , i always tend to think there is more than one thing that matters and the cumulative of choices can make one perform better ...if they are good choices.
When you can illustrate a TJ spring with change in rate as a percentage of TJ weight that is equivalent to the percentage change of your dirt bike springs, then we have relevance.
 

mrblaine

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not trying to add to the fray or expound , i always tend to think there is more than one thing that matters and the cumulative of choices can make one perform better ...if they are good choices.
I can solve the ride issues of bad tires with good shocks, you can't solve bad shocks with any tire.
 
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AndyG

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I can solve the ride issues of bad tires with good shocks, you can't solve bad shocks with any tire.
Man I can barely tell the difference.

on that note , is there a truly great shock sold for these and what is it?
 
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twistableframe0

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I can solve the ride issues of bad tires with good shocks, you can't solve bad shocks with any tire.
That makes sense. I have 33 inch ko2's, grip wise I love em and tire wear seems to be quite good too. My only other thot is because the lift is ment for a tj does that mean I'm under sprung and under dampened?
 

jjvw

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That makes sense. I have 33 inch ko2's, grip wise I love em and tire wear seems to be quite good too. My only other thot is because the lift is ment for a tj does that mean I'm under sprung and under dampened?
The Jeep is only under sprung if the springs don't provide enough ride height.

Additionally, a shock could appear under damped if the ride height isn't tall enough causing the shock's travel bias to be unevenly divided.
 
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