Thank you for taking the time to write all this out, it is definitely helpful!!!
Getting TJ ready for daily driving, LJ for weekend fun - not a rock crawler
- Thread starter ChadH
- Start date
Thank you for taking the time to write all this out, it is definitely helpful!!!
So I stopped by the 4x4 shop today. Funny one of the guys used to work for AEV and knows a lot about their design stuff. Anyway. I wont be able to remove the JJ's without welding. It looks like all of the frame side mounts have been reamed out. I thought they were still the stock size and a smaller bolt used in order to have a hole for grease, but it looks like I was wrong in that. So my options are to use existing joints, rebuild them, or use a different style of joint that still has a greasable bolt.
I think for now, even though the joints are old, I'm going to opt to just try springs and shocks. The joints really don't have much play outside of the norm, so they might not even need a rebuild. And rebuild - man. Talk about $$$. It's almost cost prohibitive, and might even be cheaper to just get brand new arms entirely....
So all that said, I need to decide on springs and shocks. After a few more discussions with Rock Jock, who are are awesome to talk with, a 2" spring is the minimum. It might be possible to go shorter but theres a pretty big risk of interference. I was hoping to maybe even drop to stock springs with a small spacer, but for now I am looking at 2 or 2.5" springs.
According to a vendor, OME has a 2" front spring at factory OEM rate, and a rear 2.5" spring at factory OEM rate. These would be the 2932 and 2941 in my above pic. But with so many inconsistencies of data unless someone here can confirm, I really can't be certain of the rates or height. ARB themselves can't even give me details which is odd. If the data is correct, then that would level front/rear after loading the back down with standard always carry items.
Another option is, Quadratec's in house option. I'm not sure how I feel about that though. They offer a 2.5" spring at OEM rates (who knows if thats TJ or LJ, hard top or soft top though.....). And it comes with their 'hydro shock' which is probably a re-branded rancho from the looks of them.
Alternatively I can also order (via amazon so hopefully part numbers are accurate) 2933 front and 2942 rear springs which are supposedly still the OEM rate of 140 #'s and 160#'s respectively. But the 2933's but they are about 3/4" taller than the "2" springs from the vendor, and the 2942's are about 1/2" shorter than the "2.5" springs from the vendor.
The rancho 5000's seem to be out of stock at a lot of places currently. I still need to take measurements for accutune to see if my existing 2.0's can be rebuilt and valved to a much softer rate. I'm not sure what to expect cost wise with that though. So I am looking into the OME options but there is a mixed bag of what is available and what is soon to not be manufactured any more.
I think for now, even though the joints are old, I'm going to opt to just try springs and shocks. The joints really don't have much play outside of the norm, so they might not even need a rebuild. And rebuild - man. Talk about $$$. It's almost cost prohibitive, and might even be cheaper to just get brand new arms entirely....
So all that said, I need to decide on springs and shocks. After a few more discussions with Rock Jock, who are are awesome to talk with, a 2" spring is the minimum. It might be possible to go shorter but theres a pretty big risk of interference. I was hoping to maybe even drop to stock springs with a small spacer, but for now I am looking at 2 or 2.5" springs.
According to a vendor, OME has a 2" front spring at factory OEM rate, and a rear 2.5" spring at factory OEM rate. These would be the 2932 and 2941 in my above pic. But with so many inconsistencies of data unless someone here can confirm, I really can't be certain of the rates or height. ARB themselves can't even give me details which is odd. If the data is correct, then that would level front/rear after loading the back down with standard always carry items.
Another option is, Quadratec's in house option. I'm not sure how I feel about that though. They offer a 2.5" spring at OEM rates (who knows if thats TJ or LJ, hard top or soft top though.....). And it comes with their 'hydro shock' which is probably a re-branded rancho from the looks of them.
Alternatively I can also order (via amazon so hopefully part numbers are accurate) 2933 front and 2942 rear springs which are supposedly still the OEM rate of 140 #'s and 160#'s respectively. But the 2933's but they are about 3/4" taller than the "2" springs from the vendor, and the 2942's are about 1/2" shorter than the "2.5" springs from the vendor.
The rancho 5000's seem to be out of stock at a lot of places currently. I still need to take measurements for accutune to see if my existing 2.0's can be rebuilt and valved to a much softer rate. I'm not sure what to expect cost wise with that though. So I am looking into the OME options but there is a mixed bag of what is available and what is soon to not be manufactured any more.
So I started now to go down the rabbit hole of OME shocks. And I find it interesting that the shock's they recommend to go along with particular springs, are no longer available and not going to be re-stocked. So says the catalogue anyway. So it brings to question - are they just selling off stock and not going to make more components? It's quite confusing. I will give them a call again tomorrow to follow up on the email comment that no more information is available, but I'm hoping someone here might have some in the know information.
Some various thoughts after skimming through...
Thread 'How to Rejuvenate a Worn Out Johnny Joint' https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-rejuvenate-a-worn-out-johnny-joint.63740/
The Johnny Joints are not contributing to NVH.
If the shock travel is near factory, then there is no need for Johnny Joints.
The JJ grease bolts are a waste of money.
Springs create the ride height.
Shocks determine the ride quality.
The shocks are the very likely cause of the poor ride quality. The Fox factory tune is not good. The sizing and installation may be contributing to the poor ride the further away the travel is from 50/50.
Thread 'How to Rejuvenate a Worn Out Johnny Joint' https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-rejuvenate-a-worn-out-johnny-joint.63740/
The Johnny Joints are not contributing to NVH.
If the shock travel is near factory, then there is no need for Johnny Joints.
The JJ grease bolts are a waste of money.
Springs create the ride height.
Shocks determine the ride quality.
The shocks are the very likely cause of the poor ride quality. The Fox factory tune is not good. The sizing and installation may be contributing to the poor ride the further away the travel is from 50/50.
If you weigh the front and back of your jeep you can get a better guess on what a springs lift height will be.
For example.divide the front weight in half,and divide that number by a springs rate.
The number you are left with is the amount you subtract from the free length of the spring to get ride height
For example.divide the front weight in half,and divide that number by a springs rate.
The number you are left with is the amount you subtract from the free length of the spring to get ride height
I would prefer to have it returned to stock, but during install frame side mounts were drilled out to accommodate the grease bolts. So it's too little too late with this unfortunately. I'll have to continue to use the JJ's. According to Rock Jock it has been tested to work with as little as a 2" lift, and possibly lower with a front Dana 30 - which mine has. So I'm going to shoot for a OEM spring with a 1.5" spacer to see if there will be enough clearance.
Yeah I've been looking for a local place to get weights. There is a cat certified scale in town an hour away but I'm not sure if such a small wheelbase will cause unreliable readings. I did have my Gladiator weighed on it and it seemed pretty accurate compared to math calculations based on accessory weights and location on the truck.
A quick call back to Rock Jock for their general 4" spec
Front - 9.8-10" travel
Compressed - 16"
Rear - 8.75" travel
Compressed - 15.75
So looking at some relatively cheap shocks with the following spec, just to smoothen things out as PCM replacement is a higher priority than a spring swap right now.
Front - 9.8-10" travel
Compressed - 16"
Rear - 8.75" travel
Compressed - 15.75
So looking at some relatively cheap shocks with the following spec, just to smoothen things out as PCM replacement is a higher priority than a spring swap right now.
- Front Collapsed Length: 14.520"
- Front Extended Length: 24.300"
- Front Travel: 9.78"
- Rear Collapsed Length: 14.910
- Rear Extended Length: 24.940
- Rear Travel: 10.03
They are guessing about your jeeps weight there though. I have curry 3" rear springs that give 1.75" lift.
Yeah, so it's not super helpful. To do it right I need to measure. My TJ is currently empty of everything but the hard top and front seats.
I just saw a FB post though about someone trying to use the rock jock components with just 2" OME springs. They are having major clearance issues. According to them, the rear arms cannot be shortened enough to really work and have proper angles.
Interesting, they make a 2" front and 3" rear spring?? This could work, if I can get the right shocks to pair with them in the appropriate length
https://www.rockjock4x4.com/CE-9133F
https://www.rockjock4x4.com/CE-9133RH
Does anybody happen to have or know spring perch measurements on a stock TJ non-rubicon without old sagging springs? I'm wondering if my TJ stance is in fact taller than 4", which would make switching to 3" springs probably suitable.
The only reason he gets 1.75" of lift from an advertised 3" lift spring is because his Jeep is heavier than the Jeep used to measure for the advertisement.
Facebook is highly suspect.what exactly was the clearance issue? What rear axle?what gas tank?what rear track bar?etc? Our suspensions have to work all the way until they hit the bumpstops. 4 or 2 inch lift shouldn't be a concern.
Like jjvw said. My jeep has about as much steel armor as you can throw at a tj. It isn't light. You need a scale.the dump,a rock quarry,lots of places can weigh one axle at a time.
Are you refering to the front track bar? You may be able to run them at stock height.
Pull your front springs and remove the rubber bumps from the cups,and any other spacers so it is stock.then cycle your suspension up and down and articulate it with one side up and the other down on both sides.i bet the track bar clears just fine. The currectlync should be able to be replaced with stock steering if the tie rod at the pitman arm binds with stock bumpstops.
You pull out the rubber bumps because they are meant to squish up into the cups on really hard hits.the cup is the real stop
I agree fully FB is a terrible resource most of the time. Although I do enjoy photographer, not AI photos. There was no specs given in that post either, I was hoping to get more information and specifics from it.
I did talk with rock jock a few times and they said their components have been tested to work at a 2" lift height. There is a disclaimer that the front track bar might work at 1.5" but they haven't verified clearances.
But between seeing the front 2" spring from rock jock, the soft 3" springs they also offer, and these, has me considering not trying to get so low. This would alleviate the issues I currently have. I saw them for the LJ several months ago but the TJ version must be fairly new. Expensive yes.... But painful are my hips and back.
https://rockslideengineering.com/product/tj-step-sliders/
I'm going to see if they can give me spring rates to compare that to weights next time I'm near that cat scale.
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