Improved braking

[Peakbagger]

I am working out the next round of changes to be made to my Jeep. One area that I would like to improve is the braking. The jeep already has BMB pads and Centric rotors, disc brakes on the rear with an 8.8 swap, and has been bled and broken in properly. I often feel like the jeep is driving through the brakes, especially on hills and in reverse, in 4 low with an automatic (32RH).

I know the quick, easy answer is the big brake kit from BMB. However, I have just replaced the ball joints, had the tie rod flip done to the knuckle as well as raised swaybar mounts. The big brake kit would require me to re-do the latter 2 and make the expense of the first wasted money. While I enjoy sending money to @mrblaine as much as anyone, I want to explore alternatives first.

A couple of items have surfaced in my rabbit hole searches and I am sure there are reasons not to do them, but here goes. First is a master cylinder swap from a Dodge 2500 pickup. Supposed to increase the fluid pressure resulting in improved braking. Any downside to this or incurred problems? Seems like a cheap upgrade. Second is modifying the existing MC using a trimmed down bolt to replace the booster push rod. I have read that these options work, but make the pedal very stiff with very little movement. I could probably get used to a stiff pedal if the performance improved.

Among the coming changes are a lower ratio in my transfer case, either an Atlas or a 241. This would further aggravate the brakes and make it easier to drive through them.

Other than redoing a bunch of work and expense, do I have any options?

 

[Fouledplugs]

Why not hydroboost?

 

[psrivats]

Why not hydroboost?

Why not both?



@Peakbagger .. you'll likely eventually end up with the BBK anyway you want the best brakes for your 35s. Talk to Blaine and follow his recommendations. Sometimes extra work upfont (even if painful) will save you grief down the road.

 

[freeskier93]

Why would you have to redo the raised sway bar mounts? Also, I'm pretty sure Blaine will send you knuckles for the big brake kit with the flip insert already installed at no extra cost. I'm also not understanding how you already replacing the ball joints is wasted money.

 

[mrblaine]

I am working out the next round of changes to be made to my Jeep. One area that I would like to improve is the braking. The jeep already has BMB pads and Centric rotors, disc brakes on the rear with an 8.8 swap, and has been bled and broken in properly. I often feel like the jeep is driving through the brakes, especially on hills and in reverse, in 4 low with an automatic (32RH).

I know the quick, easy answer is the big brake kit from BMB. However, I have just replaced the ball joints, had the tie rod flip done to the knuckle as well as raised swaybar mounts. The big brake kit would require me to re-do the latter 2 and make the expense of the first wasted money. While I enjoy sending money to @mrblaine as much as anyone, I want to explore alternatives first.

A couple of items have surfaced in my rabbit hole searches and I am sure there are reasons not to do them, but here goes. First is a master cylinder swap from a Dodge 2500 pickup. Supposed to increase the fluid pressure resulting in improved braking. Any downside to this or incurred problems? Seems like a cheap upgrade. Second is modifying the existing MC using a trimmed down bolt to replace the booster push rod. I have read that these options work, but make the pedal very stiff with very little movement. I could probably get used to a stiff pedal if the performance improved.

Among the coming changes are a lower ratio in my transfer case, either an Atlas or a 241. This would further aggravate the brakes and make it easier to drive through them.

Other than redoing a bunch of work and expense, do I have any options?

There are days that I hate the internet with a fucking passion. There is no, and I mean NO, as in NO! upgrade you can do with just the master to improve pressure into the caliper except to use a smaller bore master with increased pedal travel. Second, not all 2500 masters are the same bore, see why that's fucked up yet? The bolt trick is silly, it does exactly zero.

The reason the pedal is stiff with the 2500 master is the bore is larger which reduces pressure into the calipers, that's how hydraulics work. Not possible to defeat it.

Hydroboost is great, I wish I could include it with every brake kit. But, the problem with it is it makes very high pressure into the caliper. The stock caliper, knuckle, and even the pads will eventually die a horrible death. The cast ears typically bend first, then the end of the brake pad backing plate folds over, then the caliper bends the guide sleeve bolts. You need a good foundation for hydroboost to work, the stock brakes and knuckles are not it.

You don't have redo the raised sway bar link mounts, they don't change with the new knuckles in the Vanco kits. I will however, do my best to make your life difficult. If you are the one that just got knuckles from me and I did a flip as well, then I will credit what you spent on the knuckles and shipping towards a brake kit.

 

[mrblaine]

Why would you have to redo the raised sway bar mounts? Also, I'm pretty sure Blaine will send you knuckles for the big brake kit with the flip insert already installed at no extra cost. I'm also not understanding how you already replacing the ball joints is wasted money.

It isn't and he doesn't.

 

[mrblaine]

Why not hydroboost?

Stock shit can't take it.

 

[Peakbagger]

This is why I shouldn't post from work without looking at my jeep. I am confusing the knuckle and the inner C.

 

[rasband]

You could try another break in procedure on the brake pads, they can glaze over. But I am very happy I did my BBK. I can't wait to get to 17" wheels to get the rotors for the 16" BBK back in.

 

[Peakbagger]

I knew there would be a reason.

Thanks for the offer on the cost, but I did not get knuckles from you.

Not trying to have my life made more difficult nor get you riled up. Just asking questions and trying to learn.

Is the flip an option with the BBK? How much that cost in addition?

 

[Peakbagger]

You could try another break in procedure on the brake pads, they can glaze over. But I am very happy I did my BBK. I can't wait to get to 17" wheels to get the rotors for the 16" BBK back in.

I've re-done the break in without any noticeable change, so I think they are good. I just hate my brakes right now.

 

[psrivats]

Not trying to have my life made more difficult nor get you riled up. Just asking questions and trying to learn.

By "difficult" Blaine likely meant he will make you an offer and add to your choices (you really have only 1 imo)

 

[jjvw]

I went from BMB pads to the full 15/16" BBK about two years ago. There is a significant difference between the two. The full big brake kit has much more modulation control than the stock calipers ever did. Along with everything else I have done, it makes the driving experience really nice and natural feeling, which is an amazing thing to say about a TJ on 35" tires.

 

[Peakbagger]

How much of a difference is there frim 15" to 16"?

 

[rasband]

I knew there would be a reason.

Thanks for the offer on the cost, but I did not get knuckles from you.

Not trying to have my life made more difficult nor get you riled up. Just asking questions and trying to learn.

Is the flip an option with the BBK? How much that cost in addition?

I will assume it's the same now as it was when I bought mine: Just note that you want the inverted taper on the order on the left knuckle and you will get it. I didn't pay anything extra.

 

[rasband]

How much of a difference is there frim 15" to 16"?

It's slight, but noticeable if you pay attention to those things.

 

[jjvw]

How much of a difference is there frim 15" to 16"?

Mine have always been in the 16" position.

 

[pagrey]

I don't think there are alternatives, some stock ceramic brakes work fine if they are working perfectly. Maybe take your brakes apart and show a pic of the pads and rotors to see if they look okay. Sometimes they can get glazed and messed up, I bet an experienced eye could tell if your current setup is working as well as it can. I can't, I'd just take them apart and refinish the surfaces with sandpaper.

 

[mrblaine]

Is the flip an option with the BBK? How much that cost in addition?

Not only is it an option, I do not charge for it, it is simply part of our service to our customers. That and generally if you get the flip done, I toss in a set of the raised swaybar link mounts for free on the days I'm in a good mood. To understand the flip better, I order a certain number of left hand knuckles with a straight hole in the steering arm that is the minor diameter of the taper. That lets me flip for folks that need it or convert back to under hung if I run out and have some with the straight hole left.

 

[mrblaine]

Not trying to have my life made more difficult nor get you riled up. Just asking questions and trying to learn.

The difficulty lies with trying to decide whether or not you want to do business with someone who can solve your problem. Put another way, you now have another choice in the mix that is more favorable than you previously expected.