Let's talk towing

Towing might not be an issue but stopping is another story. I've done some pretty dumb stuff towing big air compressors and generators never had an issue towing but had a few pedal to the floor moments trying to stop.

This. Our F-150 is just about maxed out with the huge travel trailer we tow, and I was white-knuckle every time we towed until I had some jackwagon stop short in front of me on a piddly two-lane road in Ohio. The truck's brakes plus the trailer's brakes did the job, and now I feel more at ease. I still try to look wayyy down the road to make sure I spot any fool before they become an issue for me!
 
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Using the 2011 Sequoia as a working example, the 4.6L V8 4WD states it has a towing capacity of 6800lbs, This is where you educate me.

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Disregarding manufacturer specifications and ratings when it comes to towing isn't necessarily going to bite you in the rear, but it could, should you ever find yourself in even the slightest of fender benders. Knowing which model you have and following those printed ratings is not just a casual suggestion. Can you get away with ignoring them? Sure, people do it all the time but that doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

You said you were looking at the 4WD model and stated it's TWR (Trailer weight + cargo) as 6800 lb. The 6800 lb. is for the 2WD UPK60L-GKT(L)KA model which comes back as an Automatic Limited. The UPK60L-GKTSKA model is the lower class model with less options. (which translates to a lighter vehicle.)

Both of the 4WD models have a 6600 lb. TWR (Trailer weight + cargo). Armed with that information you can caculate it fairly simply. If you are by yourself (no tools or gear) and you weigh 200 lb., your trailer weight can not exceed 6400 lb. per the manufacturer's ratings. Maximum tongue weight is going to be determined by the type of hitch you use and what it's specific ratings are. eg.. Using a weight distribution hitch is going to allow for heavier tongue weight, but that will not change your TWR.

Diving into the why the 5.7 has higher capacities than the 4.7 is a pointless endeavor since the TWR is at most 500 lb. different. Without digging into what axles came with what engine it's hard to say if they use the same gear ratios, brakes, or bearing sizes in the axle housings...


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This doesn't relate to the Sequoia but it does show how lighter vehicles are rated to tow more than the same vehicle with more standard options.
All that said I'm not real fond of the way NTSA/DOT set the standards for rating vehicle towing capacities. The way the system is set up a 2wd 3/4 ton standard cab with 8 foot box pickup can legally tow a heavier trailer than 1 ton dual rear tires standard cab 8 foot box (GTWR). However the 1 ton with duals has a higher GCWR because the truck itself can carry more weight...
 
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We bought a Ford Expedition that has the tow package. So it came with the tow brake built in and has towing options with the transmission. It's a 3.5 V6 with Eco Boost (twin turbo). They call it Eco boost so you're wife won't know it's a turbo... ;)

IIRC, the tow capacity is 9-10,000. It had a lot of options we didn't really need, but it was a great deal so I pulled for it because I wanted the tow package (also 4WD). Ours seats 7 because we wanted captain's chairs in the middle row to keep our kids from killing each other, plus easier to get to the 3rd row if the middle isn't a bench seat. Though you lose one seat, 7 instead of 8.

So not a Toyota like you were looking at, but you could see if Toyota has a tow package, or possibly consider another 3rd row SUV that does. Without the tow package, max towing was around 6-7K like you're seeing. We were also considering a Tahoe at the time.

I don't have the tow package on the wife's expedition, but it seems like the primary difference between ours and the 9k lb rated tow package is the gear ratio in the rear end. So I guess just regear that thing and we're good to go, right? ;)

This search has evolved into shopping for Lexus GX 460, because apparently I am far too bougie to not have cooled seats. Whatever, I'll own that without apology. Plus I just haven't found any Sequoias in the condition I want for the price I want to pay. The Tow capacity is stated as 6500, GVWR is 6600. Curb weight is ~5150. Seems like I should be good, right? Obviously brakes & proper hitch notwithstanding. If the trailer & jeep weighs 5700, I should have ~1400 leftover for people/cargo & tongue weight. So not quite 10% under the max towing value.

Assuming Im understanding this.
 
I don't have the tow package on the wife's expedition, but it seems like the primary difference between ours and the 9k lb rated tow package is the gear ratio in the rear end. So I guess just regear that thing and we're good to go, right? ;)

This search has evolved into shopping for Lexus GX 460, because apparently I am far too bougie to not have cooled seats. Whatever, I'll own that without apology. Plus I just haven't found any Sequoias in the condition I want for the price I want to pay. The Tow capacity is stated as 6500, GVWR is 6600. Curb weight is ~5150. Seems like I should be good, right? Obviously brakes & proper hitch notwithstanding. If the trailer & jeep weighs 5700, I should have ~1400 leftover for people/cargo & tongue weight. So not quite 10% under the max towing value.

Assuming Im understanding this.

Gvwr 6600 - curb weight 5150 leaves with 1400. Take off about 600lbs for the trailer tongue weight and that leaves you with 800lbs for people and cargo. Assuming the vehicle actually weighs 5150 and not more.

Plus your tow capacity is more than the trailer weight so you should be good and you shouldn’t be anywhere near your axle ratings.
 
I don't have the tow package on the wife's expedition, but it seems like the primary difference between ours and the 9k lb rated tow package is the gear ratio in the rear end. So I guess just regear that thing and we're good to go, right? ;)
Not necesssarily. Factory tow packages, besides the gearing, usually include heavier duty shocks, springs, radiator, trans cooler, alternator, etc.

This search has evolved into shopping for Lexus GX 460, because apparently I am far too bougie to not have cooled seats. Whatever, I'll own that without apology. Plus I just haven't found any Sequoias in the condition I want for the price I want to pay. The Tow capacity is stated as 6500, GVWR is 6600. Curb weight is ~5150. Seems like I should be good, right? Obviously brakes & proper hitch notwithstanding. If the trailer & jeep weighs 5700, I should have ~1400 leftover for people/cargo & tongue weight. So not quite 10% under the max towing value.

Assuming Im understanding this.

Is it rated the same way as the Sequoia?
 
Not necesssarily. Factory tow packages, besides the gearing, usually include heavier duty shocks, springs, radiator, trans cooler, alternator, etc.

Hence the winky face.


As far as it being rated the same as the sequoia, it's a couple hundred pounds less on the tow rating for the 4.6L, but earlier in the thread I was looking at the 5.7L Sequoia. So the conversation has gotten muddied along the way.
 
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Hence the winky face.


As far as it being rated the same as the sequoia, it's a couple hundred pounds less on the tow rating for the 4.6L, but earlier in the thread I was looking at the 5.7L Sequoia. So the conversation has gotten muddied along the way.

I was referring to the chart you posted in your first post on the thread. Is the Lexus rated the same way specifying a TWR?
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I haven't found a similar chart for the Lexus.

Which ever one you end up with Toyota or Lexus make sure you use a weight distribution hitch of some kind. It not only helps with tongue load issues it also helps stabilize everything. Some brands you can also add a sway control bar to (never personally used one of those) .
 
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Which ever one you end up with Toyota or Lexus make sure you use a weight distribution hitch of some kind. It not only helps with tongue load issues it also helps stabilize everything. Some brands you can also add a sway control bar to (never personally used one of those) .

It looks like it has some sort of heavy duty tow bar under it, but I'll investigate that in a bit. Bought the Lexus this afternoon. There was an LX up in Tulsa that I may end up regretting not buying instead, but I hate the thought of driving to get a car and then facing the "pressure" of deciding to walk away and waste the trip. This GX is super nice though, my wife will probably end up taking ownership eventually.

Thanks for the help on this.
 
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Thanks for that reply @imahnu. I'm currently zeroed in on the Sequoia, or the Lexus equivalent, and then obviously the Land Cruiser but those are a chunk more expensive. I'm averse to spending a bunch of money on a vehicle (for me, for my wife different story), so I'm shopping used, and everything in the range of what I want to spend is north of 100k miles, so I've gravitated to Toyota for their reputation on longevity in that drivetrain. The 2007 4Runner came in a V8 version that is rated for 7300lbs, but those are hard to come by, and even harder to find in the sort of shape I'd be interested in driving on the regs.

I'm also super annoyed at the lack of towing capacity on my wife's Expedition. We bought one of the last new cars available during the height of the chip shortage and tow package wasn't on THE ONE CAR they had on the lot that met my needs.
can it be added for a reasonable price? Not guessing but research what it is and add it?

Looks like the TJ weighs close to 3300lbs
until you load the jeep with everything for a trip,put it on said trailer,and then load down the suv with family,snacks,cooler,etc and put it on a scale you really don't know what numbers you are working with.i am doubtful you have a 3,300lb jeep.

You're considering a borderline capacity suv and being very optimistic about weights. That would disqualify it for me immediately.especially when you say kids could be involved.
 
Why not consider a Suburban or Yukon XL? Much more space and a bunch more tow capacity. If you really want tow capacity and space look at the 3/4 ton versions. I have four kids and ran those things for years. The much smaller import SUV’s would never have been big enough for me.
 
Why not consider a Suburban or Yukon XL? Much more space and a bunch more tow capacity. If you really want tow capacity and space look at the 3/4 ton versions. I have four kids and ran those things for years. The much smaller import SUV’s would never have been big enough for me.

Because I believe this thread was looking to approve a purchase that was already well underway rather than take any useful advice.
 
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If the only thing you are going to tow is the TJ why not set the Jeep up to be flat towed and skip the additional trailer weight?

I've considered this option too...for the OP it's something to definitely consider. Most certainly cheaper and lighter.

To me it's a couple of things...tire wear on $1800 of offroad tires... running the drivetrain and risks involved with that...rather someone hit a trailer than my Jeep...and most importantly when (not if) I grenade something sending it on the trail I know I can strap the pieces down and get it home.

That and I want a 24 to preferably 28' trailer for two Jeeps... cause when you blow one up you need the second to get back to the trailer.

-Mac
 
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I've considered this option too...for the OP it's something to definitely consider. Most certainly cheaper and lighter.

To me it's a couple of things...tire wear on $1800 of offroad tires... running the drivetrain and risks involved with that...rather someone hit a trailer than my Jeep...and most importantly when (not if) I grenade something sending it on the trail I know I can strap the pieces down and get it home.

That and I want a 24 to preferably 28' trailer for two Jeeps... cause when you blow one up you need the second to get back to the trailer.

-Mac
When you have a real tow rig it opens a lot of options
Why not consider a Suburban or Yukon XL? Much more space and a bunch more tow capacity. If you really want tow capacity and space look at the 3/4 ton versions. I have four kids and ran those things for years. The much smaller import SUV’s would never have been big enough for me.

My guess is the daily driver requirement and infrequent towing are making him consider smaller suvs. I agree with you but I'd want it to be a second or third vehicle. Unless i duramax swapped it and turned up the motor....😉

Theres nothing relaxed or safe about towing at or close to max capacity.not to mention the shortened lifespan of the transmission and other parts.
 
When you have a real tow rig it opens a lot of options


My guess is the daily driver requirement and infrequent towing are making him consider smaller suvs. I agree with you but I'd want it to be a second or third vehicle. Unless i duramax swapped it and turned up the motor....😉

Theres nothing relaxed or safe about towing at or close to max capacity.not to mention the shortened lifespan of the transmission and other parts.

I was close to pulling the trigger on a duramax swapped Suburban once. I ended up keeping the Yukon Denali for the wife and got an LML as a spare/travel/towing only vehicle. Still kind of dream of a duramax Suburban....

Yes, I have towed relatively light with the Yukon XL (6.2, 6L80) on a multi hour trip. It wasn't the most fun. I couldn't imagine towing 6-7,000lbs across multiple states with it. It does fine for short trips.
 
And gone are the days when you could buy a cheap 10 year old truck.

I was in this situation in 2007...I had a minivan... Toyota Sienna...that would tow. We needed a bigger trailer for DJing and bought a 2001 F250 for $7k.

Now-a-days you can't touch a used truck for less than $20k.

-Mac
 
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My TJ is what I would consider light with no fenders, aluminum armor, no rear seat, no hardtop (only use a bikini top), chopped stock front bumper, and a lighter steel rear bumper and I am at 4,040 lbs.

Most don't realize what their rig really does weigh. I was shocked when I weighed mine.

And gone are the days when you could buy a cheap 10 year old truck.

I was in this situation in 2007...I had a minivan... Toyota Sienna...that would tow. We needed a bigger trailer for DJing and bought a 2001 F250 for $7k.

Now-a-days you can't touch a used truck for less than $20k.

-Mac

This is sad but true. I lucked out when I bought my truck but it was from a friend and he cut me a good deal. But I wouldn't want to use it to tow to say Moab or something. It's for a DD & to tow to local events. The MH is for the longer trips.