B00mb00m
The Church of Cutting Brakes of Atlas-Front Digs
Supporting Member
Ride of the Month Winner
Nothing I need, everything I want (2005 TJR, impact orange)
- Thread starter psrivats
- Start date
It is time to update this thread. There is much to write about. I am going to to backwards from the most recent updates and catch up that way.
One of the best things about a build like this with Blaine is the overall integration aspect. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a lot of enjoyment and learning (+ money aspect too) in doing things one by one, then studying how things work over time and then modifying/refining things like @jjvw or @Mike_H are doing. But often times what you will see is that most people come to a stage - where even if they know something can be refined further - they are at a point where what they have works reasonably well and it's a lot MORE work to get that last 10% refinement, so people simply decide to keep what they have. A great example is with wiring accessories .. compare the maze that you get over time adding things one by one vs starting with say a sPOD or Bussman stuff vs starting with something like a Switchpro 9100. The difference in what you can accomplish if you plan the build with a SwitchPro is remarkable.
Given Blaine's experience and his vision for usability/refinement and overall integration of things in the TJ platform, when you start working with him, you start seeing the level of effort he puts on thinking through the problems. The iterative solution path takes form over time even within one build (and he refines things further in his next builds). The majority effort is really in the thinking/planning .. the execution of the solution is the final step, with the added note that it's not a 2 step process but a continuous one, since both the planning and the execution influence each other heavily. If you have ever wondered why Blaine's finished projects have that specific look and feel, it's because of his deep understanding of these concepts and his continuous pursuit of learning.
Since people seem to like photos more than reading paragraphs explaining build philosophies, I will give two good examples that really highlight what I wrote above.
The first one revolves around the usability of a rearview mirror in a lifted TJ with a large spare tire. Most people simply put up with not being able to see out the back. Below example is a photo of what's visible in a typical TJ and this one does not even have a 33" tire. With a 35" spare and typical lift heights, that white car in the rear is mostly not visible and you can really see very little out of the mirror. You pretty much also have to rely on the side mirrors for backing up, the rear mirror is next to useless.
Those that are bothered by this will usually get an aftermarket single or double DIN radio with a screen and they will install a backup camera - usually somewhere on the rear bumper or perhaps mounted on the license plate. Below is one of the nicer ones. It solves only part of the problem, which is being able to see the reverse view while backing up. The rear view when you are driving forward is still the same as in the pic above.
As things have evolved in the auto industry, I have seen folks will install a "camera mirror" replacement for the rearview mirror. The idea is to essentially replace the entire mirror with a LCD screen, that gets a video feed from a camera mounted somewhere high up on the back of the vehicle. There are several versions of these replacement "camera mirrors" - there are some that clip on the the OEM mirror like the example below and also comes with a dedicated dashcam. Some of them can take in multiple inputs and can show various views all at once etc. There is a whole range of these products at various price points and features.
There are also other examples like the one below, that are replacement mirrors but they have an embedded LCD screen in a mirror. With an appropriately wired camera, when the screen is off you see a typical rearview but when the vehicle is in reverse, you can see the backup view in that small LCD screen.
The OEMs have not been idle. Since a backup camera is mandatory in new cars and pretty much every car having a center console radio with a big enough screen for controls and audio/navigation, most OEMs simply show the backup view in the center console when vehicle is put in reverse. I have driven enough newer rental cars and while I am OK using Android Auto, there are a few things I dislike about the typical implementations you see.
1. These center console screen location is not really convenient, esp if they are touchscreens. I am sure the newer generation of drivers will disagree with me, but the screen location is not normally where you tend to look when backing up - your eyes go the rearview mirror and to the side mirrors automatically out of habit. Someone here is going to correct me saying "Sri, you can learn new habits!"
2. The center console screens are also generally overly bright (say for GPS use) even at lowest brightness settings at night time. The monitors are also only getting bigger in each new car generation and more things controlled through them (which is pretty dumb).
3. This does not solve the problem of the poor visibility out of the rear view mirror itself esp given the shape and size of new cars. One way around this problem generally seems to be towards 360 view cameras and show all of that in the center console. All of that adds complexity and cost and a lot of these come with pros/cons for usability. There may be one or two newer cars that have better solutions and I am kind of generalizing here, but these generally have been my observations.
Some OEMs like Toyota have realized the problem of the rearview mirror itself and have worked a very good solution. And that is a rear view mirror replacement (in the normal location) but shows a camera feed when you turn it on. This short video is a good demo.
Blaine had long realized the problem of the poor rear view and that was one of the things that really bothered me in my black jeep. When we were discussing the build, this was one of the areas that we decided would get properly addressed for this jeep. So I did my research and discovered that you can buy a high quality aftermarket camera mirror replacement that works just like the Toyota video above. It is not cheap, but it solves EVERY single problem about usability.
Just like in the Toyota video, in normal use you see the mirror as always in the default location that you are used to. When you want to switch to the camera view, you pull the mirror forward (just like you would in a normal car when you have someone with too bright lights and you want to reduce the glare). That is a very intuitive way to turn the camera feature on and off . The very good thing about this that you don't have a bright LCD screen in your face all the goddamn time at night like with some of those cheaper Amazon special camera mirror replacements. You have a normal mirror, and whenever you need it, you have the camera with a very intuitive mechanical way to turn the camera feed on. No touch screen bullshit, no buttons to fiddle around, just move the mirror that is already in your muscle memory and you have it. The setup is auto dimming just like factor mirror. You have controls to adjust the display brightness, color level with red and blue adjustments, and you have option to shifting the camera image up/down a little bit to give flexibility to where you mount the camera.
Below photos shows this camera mirror installed in the vehicle, with the video feed turned on. Compare this to the 1st picture in this post, from almost the same angle. Look at how much more you can see now without the spare obstructing the view. Why have more people not done this already?
(Note for the ones still reading - memorize the windshield tie down hook location in this pic)
Where is the camera mounted, you ask? Blaine picked the perfect location for it. Can you spot it?
No? How about now?
Yes, interior side of the hardtop back glass. Perfect height and fully protected.
Remember all those comments about Blaine's methods and his approach to problem solving? While we were talking through all this stuff .. the question of backup view came up. Both Blaine and I are not fans of center console screens for the backup view - and you will soon see that the OEM radio space is going to be used up for something else.
This replacement mirror supports two video feeds. One of them can be used for a 2nd dedicated back-up camera. The view shows up as a split view in the mirror's LCD screen. It comes on when the vehicle is in reverse, like so.
Most folks would have called it good at this stage. I even told Blaine I can live with it. Blaine said "you give up too easily, I won't" given the very small backup view you get with the cameras hooked up this way. And to solve this problem, he came up with a brilliant idea for the backup view. His solution was to use a small dedicated monitor that only turns on in reverse and then find/build an appropriate location/mount for this monitor.
Remember that windshield hook location I asked you to memorize? It is right above the rearview mirror. Out of habit, your eyes automatically scan that mirror area when you are reversing as you see check the rear and side mirrors. This is the perfect spot for that monitor. It seems so obvious once you think about it, but the obvious is not always apparent in the beginning. Blaine had me search for a specific size LCD monitor that can take in the analog video feed from the backup camera which can fit in that spot. I found a good one on Amazon (with a 800x480 TN panel that will not show any reflections) for only $25. It's simple and clean with no visible branding in the front. I don't need a 4k or 1080p for a monitor this size seen from the distance of driver's seat
Once the spot was decided, Blaine figured out that a magnetic attachment system would be a good for this location. The reason is two fold .. one, flexibility in coming up with the mounting solution and two, if the monitor ever fails, he wanted me to be very quickly replace it myself without any trouble. This is the "integration" stuff that I was talking about in the beginning of this post.
He first attached a metal plate onto the back side of the monitor, which can stick to a magnet.
Next Blaine built a carrier out of ABS plastic for the monitor. In classic display of Blaine's ingenuity, this carrier has several components. Photo below shows all the components. There is a stiffener on the inside with two holes used to screw the carrier to the windshield header. The plastic trim is modified with two relief cuts to prevent the carrier from sliding side to side. The carrier has a bottom shelf to stop the monitor from sliding downward (not that it would given the strength of the magnet, but a very good safety). There is a cross bar that houses a pretty strong rare earth magnet .. the cross bar+magnet is built at the right depth to securely hold the monitor. Blaine put a small relief cut at the top of the carrier to help pop the monitor out if the need ever arises.
It is not obviously apparent looking at the above pic how the carrier attaches to the windshield trim. Note that this is not a commercially available carrier, Blaine made all of it himself and the design of it is really clever.
Blaine first made little blocks that fit on the inside of the trim at the two side cuts in the windshield trim. These are the green outlines in the pic below (not visible from the outside). The carrier sinks into those side cuts (you can see the cuts at the inside edges of the green boxes). He stuck the carrier in, and then glued the blocks to the ends of it so it can’t be removed - the blocks lock it in place. You can imagine the measurements and the planning it must have taken to get the dimensions correct everywhere.
The carrier is made from 4 pieces of ABS plastic - (1) An outer frame to clear the angles on the back of the monitor (2) the inner frame to support the outer, (3) lower shelf and (4) the magnet crossbar. The metal piece you see is about 10” long to support the top flange of the trim since a hole has now been cut out around the windshield tie down. When this hole was cut, one of the mounting clips that was right behind it needed to be removed. So that metal piece also provided a place to screw the trim to the windshield frame.
I cannot fathom how Blaine figured out the solution space by looking at the OEM setup above the rearview mirror and then devised what needs done all in his head automatically. All he told me was "We need to find a monitor in 4"-5" size" and once I got him that, he made this entire setup within 1-2 days.
Below is the finished setup with the monitor mounted on to the carrier. Looks OEM and as if it came from he factory that way. The upper monitor only powers up in reverse and remain shuts off (no distraction) during normal use. Note the location of the rearview mirror mount. With the rearview camera mirror in place, this setup is close to perfection in terms of usability/placement for me.
I hope that folks understand that I am not exaggerating whatsoever when say that I am blown away at the design, the planning, the execution of what you read above. Thank you @mrblaine for all the effort. I smiled really BIG seeing the end result. It's really marvelous to see the design process and understand whatever little I can about how do you things. This is yet another area in this very special (to me) Jeep that has been sprinkled with a heavy dose of the Wizard Magic.
One of the best things about a build like this with Blaine is the overall integration aspect. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a lot of enjoyment and learning (+ money aspect too) in doing things one by one, then studying how things work over time and then modifying/refining things like @jjvw or @Mike_H are doing. But often times what you will see is that most people come to a stage - where even if they know something can be refined further - they are at a point where what they have works reasonably well and it's a lot MORE work to get that last 10% refinement, so people simply decide to keep what they have. A great example is with wiring accessories .. compare the maze that you get over time adding things one by one vs starting with say a sPOD or Bussman stuff vs starting with something like a Switchpro 9100. The difference in what you can accomplish if you plan the build with a SwitchPro is remarkable.
Given Blaine's experience and his vision for usability/refinement and overall integration of things in the TJ platform, when you start working with him, you start seeing the level of effort he puts on thinking through the problems. The iterative solution path takes form over time even within one build (and he refines things further in his next builds). The majority effort is really in the thinking/planning .. the execution of the solution is the final step, with the added note that it's not a 2 step process but a continuous one, since both the planning and the execution influence each other heavily. If you have ever wondered why Blaine's finished projects have that specific look and feel, it's because of his deep understanding of these concepts and his continuous pursuit of learning.
Since people seem to like photos more than reading paragraphs explaining build philosophies, I will give two good examples that really highlight what I wrote above.
The first one revolves around the usability of a rearview mirror in a lifted TJ with a large spare tire. Most people simply put up with not being able to see out the back. Below example is a photo of what's visible in a typical TJ and this one does not even have a 33" tire. With a 35" spare and typical lift heights, that white car in the rear is mostly not visible and you can really see very little out of the mirror. You pretty much also have to rely on the side mirrors for backing up, the rear mirror is next to useless.
Those that are bothered by this will usually get an aftermarket single or double DIN radio with a screen and they will install a backup camera - usually somewhere on the rear bumper or perhaps mounted on the license plate. Below is one of the nicer ones. It solves only part of the problem, which is being able to see the reverse view while backing up. The rear view when you are driving forward is still the same as in the pic above.
As things have evolved in the auto industry, I have seen folks will install a "camera mirror" replacement for the rearview mirror. The idea is to essentially replace the entire mirror with a LCD screen, that gets a video feed from a camera mounted somewhere high up on the back of the vehicle. There are several versions of these replacement "camera mirrors" - there are some that clip on the the OEM mirror like the example below and also comes with a dedicated dashcam. Some of them can take in multiple inputs and can show various views all at once etc. There is a whole range of these products at various price points and features.
There are also other examples like the one below, that are replacement mirrors but they have an embedded LCD screen in a mirror. With an appropriately wired camera, when the screen is off you see a typical rearview but when the vehicle is in reverse, you can see the backup view in that small LCD screen.
The OEMs have not been idle. Since a backup camera is mandatory in new cars and pretty much every car having a center console radio with a big enough screen for controls and audio/navigation, most OEMs simply show the backup view in the center console when vehicle is put in reverse. I have driven enough newer rental cars and while I am OK using Android Auto, there are a few things I dislike about the typical implementations you see.
1. These center console screen location is not really convenient, esp if they are touchscreens. I am sure the newer generation of drivers will disagree with me, but the screen location is not normally where you tend to look when backing up - your eyes go the rearview mirror and to the side mirrors automatically out of habit. Someone here is going to correct me saying "Sri, you can learn new habits!"
2. The center console screens are also generally overly bright (say for GPS use) even at lowest brightness settings at night time. The monitors are also only getting bigger in each new car generation and more things controlled through them (which is pretty dumb).
3. This does not solve the problem of the poor visibility out of the rear view mirror itself esp given the shape and size of new cars. One way around this problem generally seems to be towards 360 view cameras and show all of that in the center console. All of that adds complexity and cost and a lot of these come with pros/cons for usability. There may be one or two newer cars that have better solutions and I am kind of generalizing here, but these generally have been my observations.
Some OEMs like Toyota have realized the problem of the rearview mirror itself and have worked a very good solution. And that is a rear view mirror replacement (in the normal location) but shows a camera feed when you turn it on. This short video is a good demo.
Blaine had long realized the problem of the poor rear view and that was one of the things that really bothered me in my black jeep. When we were discussing the build, this was one of the areas that we decided would get properly addressed for this jeep. So I did my research and discovered that you can buy a high quality aftermarket camera mirror replacement that works just like the Toyota video above. It is not cheap, but it solves EVERY single problem about usability.
Just like in the Toyota video, in normal use you see the mirror as always in the default location that you are used to. When you want to switch to the camera view, you pull the mirror forward (just like you would in a normal car when you have someone with too bright lights and you want to reduce the glare). That is a very intuitive way to turn the camera feature on and off . The very good thing about this that you don't have a bright LCD screen in your face all the goddamn time at night like with some of those cheaper Amazon special camera mirror replacements. You have a normal mirror, and whenever you need it, you have the camera with a very intuitive mechanical way to turn the camera feed on. No touch screen bullshit, no buttons to fiddle around, just move the mirror that is already in your muscle memory and you have it. The setup is auto dimming just like factor mirror. You have controls to adjust the display brightness, color level with red and blue adjustments, and you have option to shifting the camera image up/down a little bit to give flexibility to where you mount the camera.
Below photos shows this camera mirror installed in the vehicle, with the video feed turned on. Compare this to the 1st picture in this post, from almost the same angle. Look at how much more you can see now without the spare obstructing the view. Why have more people not done this already?
(Note for the ones still reading - memorize the windshield tie down hook location in this pic)
Where is the camera mounted, you ask? Blaine picked the perfect location for it. Can you spot it?
No? How about now?
Yes, interior side of the hardtop back glass. Perfect height and fully protected.
Remember all those comments about Blaine's methods and his approach to problem solving? While we were talking through all this stuff .. the question of backup view came up. Both Blaine and I are not fans of center console screens for the backup view - and you will soon see that the OEM radio space is going to be used up for something else.
This replacement mirror supports two video feeds. One of them can be used for a 2nd dedicated back-up camera. The view shows up as a split view in the mirror's LCD screen. It comes on when the vehicle is in reverse, like so.
Most folks would have called it good at this stage. I even told Blaine I can live with it. Blaine said "you give up too easily, I won't" given the very small backup view you get with the cameras hooked up this way. And to solve this problem, he came up with a brilliant idea for the backup view. His solution was to use a small dedicated monitor that only turns on in reverse and then find/build an appropriate location/mount for this monitor.
Remember that windshield hook location I asked you to memorize? It is right above the rearview mirror. Out of habit, your eyes automatically scan that mirror area when you are reversing as you see check the rear and side mirrors. This is the perfect spot for that monitor. It seems so obvious once you think about it, but the obvious is not always apparent in the beginning. Blaine had me search for a specific size LCD monitor that can take in the analog video feed from the backup camera which can fit in that spot. I found a good one on Amazon (with a 800x480 TN panel that will not show any reflections) for only $25. It's simple and clean with no visible branding in the front. I don't need a 4k or 1080p for a monitor this size seen from the distance of driver's seat
Once the spot was decided, Blaine figured out that a magnetic attachment system would be a good for this location. The reason is two fold .. one, flexibility in coming up with the mounting solution and two, if the monitor ever fails, he wanted me to be very quickly replace it myself without any trouble. This is the "integration" stuff that I was talking about in the beginning of this post.
He first attached a metal plate onto the back side of the monitor, which can stick to a magnet.
Next Blaine built a carrier out of ABS plastic for the monitor. In classic display of Blaine's ingenuity, this carrier has several components. Photo below shows all the components. There is a stiffener on the inside with two holes used to screw the carrier to the windshield header. The plastic trim is modified with two relief cuts to prevent the carrier from sliding side to side. The carrier has a bottom shelf to stop the monitor from sliding downward (not that it would given the strength of the magnet, but a very good safety). There is a cross bar that houses a pretty strong rare earth magnet .. the cross bar+magnet is built at the right depth to securely hold the monitor. Blaine put a small relief cut at the top of the carrier to help pop the monitor out if the need ever arises.
It is not obviously apparent looking at the above pic how the carrier attaches to the windshield trim. Note that this is not a commercially available carrier, Blaine made all of it himself and the design of it is really clever.
Blaine first made little blocks that fit on the inside of the trim at the two side cuts in the windshield trim. These are the green outlines in the pic below (not visible from the outside). The carrier sinks into those side cuts (you can see the cuts at the inside edges of the green boxes). He stuck the carrier in, and then glued the blocks to the ends of it so it can’t be removed - the blocks lock it in place. You can imagine the measurements and the planning it must have taken to get the dimensions correct everywhere.
The carrier is made from 4 pieces of ABS plastic - (1) An outer frame to clear the angles on the back of the monitor (2) the inner frame to support the outer, (3) lower shelf and (4) the magnet crossbar. The metal piece you see is about 10” long to support the top flange of the trim since a hole has now been cut out around the windshield tie down. When this hole was cut, one of the mounting clips that was right behind it needed to be removed. So that metal piece also provided a place to screw the trim to the windshield frame.
I cannot fathom how Blaine figured out the solution space by looking at the OEM setup above the rearview mirror and then devised what needs done all in his head automatically. All he told me was "We need to find a monitor in 4"-5" size" and once I got him that, he made this entire setup within 1-2 days.
Below is the finished setup with the monitor mounted on to the carrier. Looks OEM and as if it came from he factory that way. The upper monitor only powers up in reverse and remain shuts off (no distraction) during normal use. Note the location of the rearview mirror mount. With the rearview camera mirror in place, this setup is close to perfection in terms of usability/placement for me.
I hope that folks understand that I am not exaggerating whatsoever when say that I am blown away at the design, the planning, the execution of what you read above. Thank you @mrblaine for all the effort. I smiled really BIG seeing the end result. It's really marvelous to see the design process and understand whatever little I can about how do you things. This is yet another area in this very special (to me) Jeep that has been sprinkled with a heavy dose of the Wizard Magic.
That original photo is mine. And like you say, it's tough to see. I use my review when im on the hwy just to see what's way way behind me, otherwise it's pretty worthless as you say. That might have been a 33" or maybe a 35", but I'm also parked on a sloped driveway.
Awesome work. It's all the little things that matter. That is a great job!
Awesome work. It's all the little things that matter. That is a great job!
I found that photo on google looking for a typical view out of a TJ from driver's seat. Did not realize it your jeep or it was on a slope! But that is still a very representative photo from the driver's seat of a TJ and helped drive the point I was trying to make
The credit goes to Blaine for getting me think about all these things - seemingly small each one of them but actually end up adding up to the total experience. And as always ... even in the smallest things, the devil is always in the details and detail (some visible, very many of them hidden) is where Blaine's work really shines.
It is time to update this thread. There is much to write about. I am going to to backwards from the most recent updates and catch up that way.
One of the best things about a build like this with Blaine is the overall integration aspect. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly a lot of enjoyment and learning (+ money aspect too) in doing things one by one, then studying how things work over time and then modifying/refining things like @jjvw or @Mike_H are doing. But often times what you will see is that most people come to a stage - where even if they know something can be refined further - they are at a point where what they have works reasonably well and it's a lot MORE work to get that last 10% refinement, so people simply decide to keep what they have. A great example is with wiring accessories .. compare the maze that you get over time adding things one by one vs starting with say a sPOD or Bussman stuff vs starting with something like a Switchpro 9100. The difference in what you can accomplish if you plan the build with a SwitchPro is remarkable.
Given Blaine's experience and his vision for usability/refinement and overall integration of things in the TJ platform, when you start working with him, you start seeing the level of effort he puts on thinking through the problems. The iterative solution path takes form over time even within one build (and he refines things further in his next builds). The majority effort is really in the thinking/planning .. the execution of the solution is the final step, with the added note that it's not a 2 step process but a continuous one, since both the planning and the execution influence each other heavily. If you have ever wondered why Blaine's finished projects have that specific look and feel, it's because of his deep understanding of these concepts and his continuous pursuit of learning.
Since people seem to like photos more than reading paragraphs explaining build philosophies, I will give two good examples that really highlight what I wrote above.
The first one revolves around the usability of a rearview mirror in a lifted TJ with a large spare tire. Most people simply put up with not being able to see out the back. Below example is a photo of what's visible in a typical TJ and this one does not even have a 33" tire. With a 35" spare and typical lift heights, that white car in the rear is mostly not visible and you can really see very little out of the mirror. You pretty much also have to rely on the side mirrors for backing up, the rear mirror is next to useless.
View attachment 573360
Those that are bothered by this will usually get an aftermarket single or double DIN radio with a screen and they will install a backup camera - usually somewhere on the rear bumper or perhaps mounted on the license plate. Below is one of the nicer ones. It solves only part of the problem, which is being able to see the reverse view while backing up. The rear view when you are driving forward is still the same as in the pic above.
View attachment 573376
As things have evolved in the auto industry, I have seen folks will install a "camera mirror" replacement for the rearview mirror. The idea is to essentially replace the entire mirror with a LCD screen, that gets a video feed from a camera mounted somewhere high up on the back of the vehicle. There are several versions of these replacement "camera mirrors" - there are some that clip on the the OEM mirror like the example below and also comes with a dedicated dashcam. Some of them can take in multiple inputs and can show various views all at once etc. There is a whole range of these products at various price points and features.
View attachment 573369
There are also other examples like the one below, that are replacement mirrors but they have an embedded LCD screen in a mirror. With an appropriately wired camera, when the screen is off you see a typical rearview but when the vehicle is in reverse, you can see the backup view in that small LCD screen.
View attachment 573372
View attachment 573375
The OEMs have not been idle. Since a backup camera is mandatory in new cars and pretty much every car having a center console radio with a big enough screen for controls and audio/navigation, most OEMs simply show the backup view in the center console when vehicle is put in reverse. I have driven enough newer rental cars and while I am OK using Android Auto, there are a few things I dislike about the typical implementations you see.
1. These center console screen location is not really convenient, esp if they are touchscreens. I am sure the newer generation of drivers will disagree with me, but the screen location is not normally where you tend to look when backing up - your eyes go the rearview mirror and to the side mirrors automatically out of habit. Someone here is going to correct me saying "Sri, you can learn new habits!"
2. The center console screens are also generally overly bright (say for GPS use) even at lowest brightness settings at night time. The monitors are also only getting bigger in each new car generation and more things controlled through them (which is pretty dumb).
3. This does not solve the problem of the poor visibility out of the rear view mirror itself esp given the shape and size of new cars. One way around this problem generally seems to be towards 360 view cameras and show all of that in the center console. All of that adds complexity and cost and a lot of these come with pros/cons for usability. There may be one or two newer cars that have better solutions and I am kind of generalizing here, but these generally have been my observations.
Some OEMs like Toyota have realized the problem of the rearview mirror itself and have worked a very good solution. And that is a rear view mirror replacement (in the normal location) but shows a camera feed when you turn it on. This short video is a good demo.
Blaine had long realized the problem of the poor rear view and that was one of the things that really bothered me in my black jeep. When we were discussing the build, this was one of the areas that we decided would get properly addressed for this jeep. So I did my research and discovered that you can buy a high quality aftermarket camera mirror replacement that works just like the Toyota video above. It is not cheap, but it solves EVERY single problem about usability.
Just like in the Toyota video, in normal use you see the mirror as always in the default location that you are used to. When you want to switch to the camera view, you pull the mirror forward (just like you would in a normal car when you have someone with too bright lights and you want to reduce the glare). That is a very intuitive way to turn the camera feature on and off . The very good thing about this that you don't have a bright LCD screen in your face all the goddamn time at night like with some of those cheaper Amazon special camera mirror replacements. You have a normal mirror, and whenever you need it, you have the camera with a very intuitive mechanical way to turn the camera feed on. No touch screen bullshit, no buttons to fiddle around, just move the mirror that is already in your muscle memory and you have it. The setup is auto dimming just like factor mirror. You have controls to adjust the display brightness, color level with red and blue adjustments, and you have option to shifting the camera image up/down a little bit to give flexibility to where you mount the camera.
Below photos shows this camera mirror installed in the vehicle, with the video feed turned on. Compare this to the 1st picture in this post, from almost the same angle. Look at how much more you can see now without the spare obstructing the view. Why have more people not done this already?
(Note for the ones still reading - memorize the windshield tie down hook location in this pic)
View attachment 573385
Where is the camera mounted, you ask? Blaine picked the perfect location for it. Can you spot it?
View attachment 573386
No? How about now?
Yes, interior side of the hardtop back glass. Perfect height and fully protected.
View attachment 573387
Remember all those comments about Blaine's methods and his approach to problem solving? While we were talking through all this stuff .. the question of backup view came up. Both Blaine and I are not fans of center console screens for the backup view - and you will soon see that the OEM radio space is going to be used up for something else.
This replacement mirror supports two video feeds. One of them can be used for a 2nd dedicated back-up camera. The view shows up as a split view in the mirror's LCD screen. It comes on when the vehicle is in reverse, like so.
View attachment 573388
Most folks would have called it good at this stage. I even told Blaine I can live with it. Blaine said "you give up too easily, I won't" given the very small backup view you get with the cameras hooked up this way. And to solve this problem, he came up with a brilliant idea for the backup view. His solution was to use a small dedicated monitor that only turns on in reverse and then find/build an appropriate location/mount for this monitor.
Remember that windshield hook location I asked you to memorize? It is right above the rearview mirror. Out of habit, your eyes automatically scan that mirror area when you are reversing as you see check the rear and side mirrors. This is the perfect spot for that monitor. It seems so obvious once you think about it, but the obvious is not always apparent in the beginning. Blaine had me search for a specific size LCD monitor that can take in the analog video feed from the backup camera which can fit in that spot. I found a good one on Amazon (with a 800x480 TN panel that will not show any reflections) for only $25. It's simple and clean with no visible branding in the front. I don't need a 4k or 1080p for a monitor this size seen from the distance of driver's seat
Once the spot was decided, Blaine figured out that a magnetic attachment system would be a good for this location. The reason is two fold .. one, flexibility in coming up with the mounting solution and two, if the monitor ever fails, he wanted me to be very quickly replace it myself without any trouble. This is the "integration" stuff that I was talking about in the beginning of this post.
He first attached a metal plate onto the back side of the monitor, which can stick to a magnet.
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Next Blaine built a carrier out of ABS plastic for the monitor. In classic display of Blaine's ingenuity, this carrier has several components. Photo below shows all the components. There is a stiffener on the inside with two holes used to screw the carrier to the windshield header. The plastic trim is modified with two relief cuts to prevent the carrier from sliding side to side. The carrier has a bottom shelf to stop the monitor from sliding downward (not that it would given the strength of the magnet, but a very good safety). There is a cross bar that houses a pretty strong rare earth magnet .. the cross bar+magnet is built at the right depth to securely hold the monitor. Blaine put a small relief cut at the top of the carrier to help pop the monitor out if the need ever arises.
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It is not obviously apparent looking at the above pic how the carrier attaches to the windshield trim. Note that this is not a commercially available carrier, Blaine made all of it himself and the design of it is really clever.
Blaine first made little blocks that fit on the inside of the trim at the two side cuts in the windshield trim. These are the green outlines in the pic below (not visible from the outside). The carrier sinks into those side cuts (you can see the cuts at the inside edges of the green boxes). He stuck the carrier in, and then glued the blocks to the ends of it so it can’t be removed - the blocks lock it in place. You can imagine the measurements and the planning it must have taken to get the dimensions correct everywhere.
The carrier is made from 4 pieces of ABS plastic - (1) An outer frame to clear the angles on the back of the monitor (2) the inner frame to support the outer, (3) lower shelf and (4) the magnet crossbar. The metal piece you see is about 10” long to support the top flange of the trim since a hole has now been cut out around the windshield tie down. When this hole was cut, one of the mounting clips that was right behind it needed to be removed. So that metal piece also provided a place to screw the trim to the windshield frame.
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I cannot fathom how Blaine figured out the solution space by looking at the OEM setup above the rearview mirror and then devised what needs done all in his head automatically. All he told me was "We need to find a monitor in 4"-5" size" and once I got him that, he made this entire setup within 1-2 days.
Below is the finished setup with the monitor mounted on to the carrier. Looks OEM and as if it came from he factory that way. The upper monitor only powers up in reverse and remain shuts off (no distraction) during normal use. Note the location of the rearview mirror mount. With the rearview camera mirror in place, this setup is close to perfection in terms of usability/placement for me.
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I hope that folks understand that I am not exaggerating whatsoever when say that I am blown away at the design, the planning, the execution of what you read above. Thank you @mrblaine for all the effort. I smiled really BIG seeing the end result. It's really marvelous to see the design process and understand whatever little I can about how do you things. This is yet another area in this very special (to me) Jeep that has been sprinkled with a heavy dose of the Wizard Magic.
I need to get a pic of the rear view mirror installed with the back up monitor in place so it is more obvious how close they are to each other.
none of this surprises me whatsoever, @psrivats...2 questions:
with the rearview camera mounted to inside back glass of hardtop, do you plan on taking the top off ever? Maybe so, since you have the backup monitor that @mrblaine designed the mount for? perhaps I answered my own question...
2nd question is, I assume you will never fold your windshield down, not many do in TJ's, I can count on 1 hand the few times I have...
keep up the photos and write-ups, I find it so fascinating to watch it unfold with the thought processes designed. The 2 of you together planning and solving problems is a joy to experience...
with the rearview camera mounted to inside back glass of hardtop, do you plan on taking the top off ever? Maybe so, since you have the backup monitor that @mrblaine designed the mount for? perhaps I answered my own question...
2nd question is, I assume you will never fold your windshield down, not many do in TJ's, I can count on 1 hand the few times I have...
keep up the photos and write-ups, I find it so fascinating to watch it unfold with the thought processes designed. The 2 of you together planning and solving problems is a joy to experience...
Only hardtop on this jeep .. it will be permanent and no, I will not take the windshield down. I switched between the tops on my old black jeep like all the cool kids do for couple years and after it wore off .. I just wanted one top. Then I ran just the soft top for 2 or 3 summers and winters and after that I had enough. I will say that the TJs look damned good with a softtop. But living in Oregon where winters are wet and my use case where I plan to take this to remote hiking and camping spots and winter adventures .. hardtop is the better choice. Especially since it lets us do cool things like the high mounted rearview 60fps camera with 50 degree field of view. I wish people could just see how good the view from the camera feed is.
If it was not clear, there will be two cameras in the jeep - one high mounted to use with the camera mirror, and one mounted low for dedicated used ONLY for backup/reverse coupled to the smaller 5" screen.
I will eventually have the CJ-3B for the topless windshield-down jeep experience on nice summer days
Much easier to do both in the ol' CJ if the heart desires.I am glad you are liking the write-ups. Credit goes to Blaine for helping to expand my vision and understand the what/why/how of things. I only assist him (as best as I can) with what little I know to do well. I do ask a lot of dumbass questions though
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People may be wondering why did we go to all this trouble of finding a replacement camera mirror, fabricating the mount for the back-up view while a modern double DIN Anroid radio might have been good enough. It's because there are other things happening in the OEM radio area. Teaser photo below .. I will have a bigger write up coming in the future explaining the design evolution of this one.
I always wondered how one of these would work (fit and is reinforcement needed) with a hard top?
https://www.sunroofsource.com/sliding-ragtops/
Since no one seems to have caught it (perhaps to due to distraction with the rearview camera/mirror?), I will point it to with big green arrows.
Completely overkill, but what isn't in this in build? Rosen sunvisors for the Jeep TJ. I cannot describe how nice these are. Based out of Oregon too, and fantastic people. Super happy to have this in the jeep.
For those that don't know about these, go here, take a look at the pics and enjoy!
https://www.rosenvisor.com/store/c92/automotive
Completely overkill, but what isn't in this in build?
Rosen sunvisors for the Jeep TJ. I cannot describe how nice these are. Based out of Oregon too, and fantastic people. Super happy to have this in the jeep.For those that don't know about these, go here, take a look at the pics and enjoy!
https://www.rosenvisor.com/store/c92/automotive
Without getting into the details, would you mind briefly sharing what items you plan to put in the numbered locations?
“8 switches for the Switch Pro, Blue tooth controller for a remote receiver, 2 USB ports for charging, 2 seat heater controls with 6 position switches, clock with temp and voltage, and the Rubicrawler mode indicator all in what is basically wasted space in a TJ is not a bad thing”
This was taken from a different thread where Blaine was talking about the radio delete, it’s all about those Easter eggs.
Post above explains it, but I will get into some detail here.
1. SwitchPro 9100 (8 switch)
2. Bluetooth audio controller (it's the size of a carling switch), with real physical buttons/volume knob. I found this one.
3. (Not marked) —> Rubicrawler mode indicator LEDs. Blaine made these.
4. Seat heater switches (green LEDs) that have an OEM look; Blaine found these and they have good provenance.
5. Small green LED Clock (which can also show temp and voltage if one desires). Blaine found this one.
6. USB-C ports, 1 on each side - tied to a pretty nifty, real USB power supply that can put out 100W on each port (so nicely future proofed). I found these.
Each of these items took effort to decide on and the space we have for use influenced the choices (and to an extent, vice versa as well). The layout/placement/integration as shown above is all Blaine's magic. It looks simple but I can tell you that it took a number of iterations and while is not obviously apparent, the space is pretty tight once you start thinking about symmetry and caring about having it not just functional, but also look and feel good to use.
The idea started with Blaine asking "Do you listen to music in the Jeep? We can do a lot in that 1.5DIN space". We got a rough 1.5DIN blank (below) made for mockups and Blaine quickly figured that there is a bit more space to be utilized with a double DIN.
I will write more about the specifics in a future post. It has been both watching and participating in the design evolution. Like with other things in the suspension, one choice influences another in the interior too. What we wanted for the "center control area" influences how the rearview/backup view setups are done and yet again shows that you have to look at the big picture and plan for the total and then sort out the individual elements to fit in that total.
Thanks for explaining this a bit more.
The layout is pleasing to the eye, which isn’t easy to do when you are trying to make all the bits work well together.
There’s a lot going on and your anticipation of how current and past choices will affect future constraints and the overall build is one of the most interesting parts to me. Looking forward to seeing more.
Thanks for explaining this a bit more.
The layout is pleasing to the eye, which isn’t easy to do when you are trying to make all the bits work well together.
There’s a lot going on and your anticipation of how current and past choices will affect future constraints and the overall build is one of the most interesting parts to me. Looking forward to seeing more.
One thing that may not be obvious is the OEM Temp Compass mirror has all of the power and ground wires we need to run the rear view camera and monitor and then also the back up camera. The OEM mirror is fused at the cluster power fuse so that makes it easy.
I've dealt with enough homegrown mystery circuits, wires, and fuse holder that are hidden under the dash that I'll never do that to anyone. His black one had 2 relays and a fuse holder hidden up under the dash well enough that you almost had to pull the instrument cluster to find them.
Since no one seems to have caught it (perhaps to due to distraction with the rearview camera/mirror?), I will point it to with big green arrows.
Completely overkill, but what isn't in this in build?
For those that don't know about these, go here, take a look at the pics and enjoy!
https://www.rosenvisor.com/store/c92/automotive
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That is absolutely perfect <chef's kiss>
That new paint on the trim makes things look brand new! Thank you Blaine.
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