There does not exist on the face of this planet any springs made for a TJ and its derivatives that you can NOT blow right through. It is that simple.
I had 5 paragraphs written to help with understanding, fuck it, makes no difference anyway.
What is lost on so many people is that the spring is only reacting to the weight on top of it. And when a spring is designed to create a certain ride height and also function within the limits of a suspension, there is a narrow range of variables to work within. Meaning that the available springs that create the desired ride height are not very different from each other.
What is lost on so many people is that the spring is only reacting to the weight on top of it. And when a spring is designed to create a certain ride height and also function within the limits of a suspension, there is a narrow range of variables to work within. Meaning that the available springs that create the desired ride height are not very different from each other.
Very few want to listen, even fewer want to pay attention. I now understand at least partially how you’ve become the way you are in terms of simply not giving a crap.
It only goes off the rails because you steer it there right after you say something that says you get it, then you post up something to the contrary.Exactly. I was trying to say in the Jeep world it seems all the spring does is set it up for the shock to do it’s work… And that sort of went off the rails.
You can be the best driver in the world and that still won't fix a crappy ride quality in a TJ.Being a better rider is really where it is.
I personally believe that everything will work best when it's all planned out and designed to work all together as a system.
Take any aspect or combination thereof, and I can produce that result from rides good, to rides like shit, to corners like its on rails, spongy, firm and well planted and change nothing but the shocks assuming any 4" spring lift and any workable suspension and steering. We can make it go from scary amounts of body roll to Oh Crap, someone put rails on the street to make this thing turn and never touch any other part of the rig except the shocks.I'm curious as to what is considered "Rides good" to most people? Soft and spongy, firm and well planted, Pillowy, corners like it's on rails.... Why not set the ride height with coilovers, or softer springs and spacers, or those JKS Acos adjustable spring pad/bumpstops? What roll in ride comfort do the antisway bars contribute? Don't forget tire pressure which is also a sort of spring. And what about side to side body roll/lean and weight transfer...
Not sure why stock is your benchmark. The stock shocks on our 04 were never that impressive, nor on the 99, the other 04, or the 01. I wouldn't call them soft, more along the lines of semi squishy with a non linear abrupt response to moderate events with lower compression damping than desired and far too easy to blow through the valving on anything larger at speed.I personally believe that everything will work best when it's all planned out and designed to work all together as a system. I feel like to many Jeeps are built with lots of good parts, that aren't meant to be playing together. It's like you plan on baking a cake, but half way through mixing the eggs, butter and sugar, instead of adding flour and cocoa, you add peperoni, mozzerella, and onions... then you wonder why your Pizza didn't turn out right...
If you really want a soft ride, just keep it stock and add a 3" body lift, then raise the bumpers and install lift lips in the fender wells to hide the ugly gaps.
I think I bought the correct Rancho shocks for a stock height TJ
For a minute, I thought I was on JF from 5 years ago.
What would it take to convince you or anyone else as to why we say "springs don't matter"?
We'll take the most difficult rig that folks consider to make ride well and start with it.
4"ish lifted TJ on short arms with no top, tire on the tailgate, 35's on 17" rims, we'll even use Johnny Joints in the arms since they ride like shit.
That's the rig, what has to happen in the form of any test you can think of that doesn't involve replacing the springs to prove to you that they don't matter? Or, I'll set it up to ride nicely, you bring me any TJ 4" set of springs that doesn't alter the ride height more than 1/2" and we can see if you can tell the difference in spring. Would that do it or you have an idea for some other test to put this shit to bed once and for all? What will it take?
It isn't over your head. Springs do one thing and that is to create the ride height. They have no perceivable effect on the ride.
But if anyone wants to refute this, they are more than welcome to ask @DirkDPG to explain how to choose and tune a spring for ride quality. But he won't because he can't. I've tried.
If I am right, we can AT LEAST agree that spring rates do matter- at least with OME coils.
OME can NOT be the only ones where it matters.
It doesn't make sense that it would matter with OME coils and not with others.
There are not that many parameters that affect the rate —> pitch, wire diameter, mean diameter (average of ID/OD), coil angle, free length (or number of active coils). The factory springs were special since their wire diameter changed constantly, but even if you consider progressive or dual rate coils and such .. everything is well quite well understood.
So either rates will affect ride quality for ALL coils, or it would not for all coils. OME can NOT be the only ones where it matters.
It doesn't make sense that it would matter with OME coils and not with others.
There are not that many parameters that affect the rate —> pitch, wire diameter, mean diameter (average of ID/OD), coil angle, free length (or number of active coils). The factory springs were special since their wire diameter changed constantly, but even if you consider progressive or dual rate coils and such .. everything is well quite well understood.
So either rates will affect ride quality for ALL coils, or it would not for all coils. OME can NOT be the only ones where it matters.
Good point. So, if we can clearly demonstrate that this is true with OME coils, we really cannot say it is true with ALL coils then can we? The best we can say is it is true with SOME coils that people have used. I know how it sounds, but that doesn't change the facts.