RS5000X Rear Shock Valving

samobius

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I was doing some work on my Jeep today and my wife noticed that I had bashed one of my shocks against a rock and it was dented pretty bad. It's a shock from an old BDS lift and I've never really been happy with it because with the hard top on and a big tire hanging on the back, I always hit my bump stops when I hit a speed bump.

I know the Rancho RS5000X comes highly recommended and I'm interested, but I'm also wondering if they might be valved to handle a hard top and larger tire (I read that the BDS shocks were actually valved for a soft top)

What is everyone's experience with hard tops and 33" or larger tires on the back with the RS5000X?
Also, since my fronts are fine can I leave those, or should I go ahead and replace all 4?
 
You're not hitting the bump stops because of the shock valving, you're hitting because you're riding lower with all the extra weight and don't have enough uptravel for the shock to do its job. I suppose its probably possible to valve a shock hard enough to prevent it, but I don't think the ride would be pleasant and it's probably not going to be a widely available shock. What you need is a shorter (compressed length) shock or a higher ride height.

Fwiw, I run rancho rs5000x and I run soft top May-Nov and hard top for the winter. I'm not bottoming out, but I have 5" of uptravel with the soft top on so I can afford to lose an inch without dramatically upsetting my travel bias.
 
I run an ever-changing amount of weight, and have RS5000X shocks currently.

What solved my bottoming out issue while heavily loaded was not new shocks, but instead airbags in the coils (Air Lift 1000) to sufficiently level and stiffen the ride for significantly heavier loads. However, I am always constantly changing the load, and mainly needed a way to level the car.

In the future, I probably will upgrade to a higher end adjustable shock. The Fox reservoir shocks with CD adjusters are the best bolt-on ones available, and can be pre-tuned by various tuners for your specific loading. The RS9000XL shocks are also adjustable, but generally are not tunable and have a shorter travel than the others.

If you have the budget, consider custom tuned shocks. @pcoplin (Fullstack motorsports) and Accutune are a couple of options.

If not, consider the RS9000XL, but make sure the travel fits your needs.
 
don't have enough uptravel for the shock to do its job.

Would a shorter shock help then since it would already be poised to activate quicker? I still have my OEM shocks and wouldn't be opposed to trying them to see if it helps. (Or, maybe some of the upper shock relocators from Teraflex?)

I know I'd lose some down travel, but I think more than anything I'm looking for ride quality right now. Plus I could pull my bump stop extensions out since I wouldn't be worried about bottoming out my shocks.
 
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Would a shorter shock help then since it would already be poised to activate quicker? I still have my OEM shocks and wouldn't be opposed to trying them to see if it helps. (Or, maybe some of the upper shock relocators from Teraflex?)

I know I'd lose some down travel, but I think more than anything I'm looking for ride quality right now. Plus I could pull my bump stop extensions out since I wouldn't be worried about bottoming out my shocks.

Yes. The shocks job is to control the movement of the axle in relation to the chassis. It needs travel distance to do that, and if your available uptravel is shorter than what the shock needs to slow down and stop that movement, the bump stops will find each other.

You want to be close to 50% uptravel and 50% down. If your stock shocks and removed bump extensions get you closer to that, then that's the way to go. Just know that having little down travel can be just as bad, as when you drop a wheel into a hole and the shock tops out it yanks that side of the chassis down into the hole with it (or though of another way, the chassis tries to yank the axle off the ground).
 
I've got hardtop and 32" spare and 5000x has never bottomed out. I agree with above that you probably have the wrong length shock for your setup. Or the shock could be blown and not controlling the spring as it should. Jump on each corner of the Jeep. Shock should return to no motion within 2-3 bounces. If it doesn't then the shock is blown. See how much of the shock shaft is visible. And how much uptravel is allowed before hitting the bumpstop. Check the total shock travel (should be on the box, or website) and find out how close to 50/50 it is.
 
Ok so I measured my exposed shock length and it is 4.25". The travel on those shocks is 8.3" so honestly it seems to be pretty good.

This got me to thinking though, is it possible that what I was thinking of as being a shock valve problem might really be more of a spring rate problem?

Thanks
Dave
 
oh boy, you've stepped in it now :ROFLMAO:

The job of the spring is to support the vehicle at the desired ride height. If it's doing that, it's doing it's job and there's no point in putting another thought into it.

Spring rate needs to fall between two limits. The minimum limit is set by the compressed height of the spring because low rate->longer wire->more coils->taller height when stacked solid - you don't want to lose travel because your spring turns solid metal before anything else makes contact. The maximum limit set by the free length of the spring because high rate->less difference between free length and ride height - free length needs to fill the space between the spring perches at full droop because you don't want to lose travel because your spring is loose before the rest of your suspension tops out.

Once you put those boundaries around it, you don't have a wide enough range of spring rates to make a significant impact to the way it rides.
 
Ok so I measured my exposed shock length and it is 4.25". The travel on those shocks is 8.3" so honestly it seems to be pretty good.

This got me to thinking though, is it possible that what I was thinking of as being a shock valve problem might really be more of a spring rate problem?

Thanks
Dave

Put a small ziptie on the shock shaft and push it to the base of the shock body, then go for a normal drive, hit some pot holes, train track crossings, etc. Then report back to see how much of that up you are actually using.
 
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oh boy, you've stepped in it now :ROFLMAO:

The job of the spring is to support the vehicle at the desired ride height. If it's doing that, it's doing it's job and there's no point in putting another thought into it.

Spring rate needs to fall between two limits. The minimum limit is set by the compressed height of the spring because low rate->longer wire->more coils->taller height when stacked solid - you don't want to lose travel because your spring turns solid metal before anything else makes contact. The maximum limit set by the free length of the spring because high rate->less difference between free length and ride height - free length needs to fill the space between the spring perches at full droop because you don't want to lose travel because your spring is loose before the rest of your suspension tops out.

Once you put those boundaries around it, you don't have a wide enough range of spring rates to make a significant impact to the way it rides.
In regards to on-road performance, it does get more complex than that. (For off-road, particularly rock crawling, generally softer is better to a limit.)

The spring must also be able to support varying loads without excessive sag. The stiffer the spring, the less of an impact loading has on it. But at the same time, it must also fill the parameters you gave.

As a general rule of thumb, the stiffer the spring, the harsher the ride quality. That's why Super Dutys with the plow prep package warn of loss of ride quality. That is a sacrifice made to accommodate a wider range of loads (i.e., with/without a plow).

If the spring rate is too soft for the variance in loading, it will lead to a harsh ride when loaded because of low uptravel and constant bottoming out. I ran into this issue with the Currie springs, particularly when loaded, that I only had as little as two inches of uptravel. (That problem was solved by airbags.)

Spring rate will also affect the total energy and the momentum absorbed before bottoming out. A stiffer spring can absorb significantly more momentum and energy as it is compressed to the limits of travel, at the cost of significantly increased restorative force on its ends.

Consider the two extremes for springs: constant rate and solid. A constant rate spring (think of a tape measure) would theoretically provide the perfect ride, but would accommodate zero changing load and would not restore height after a bump. A solid spring (think of a piece of pipe welded in) would eliminate the issues of sag due to load and bottoming out at the cost of extremely high restorative forces.


As for how that relates to the original poster, I agree with you that the springs are unlikely the issue here. Most springs sold for the TJ tend to be within a reasonable range of rates, with Currie being among the lightest and Rough Country among the heaviest if I recall correctly.

If the OP actually is bottoming out constantly, that is most likely the fault of blown or inadequate shocks. If it's more due to loading or even soft spring rates, stiffer springs or stiffening systems like airbags could be the solution. Ultra-stiff springs will likely give a noticeably harsher ride.
 
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RS5000X shocks are very soft. They will do almost nothing to prevent you from bottoming out. Talk to AccuTune Off-Road if you want a shock based solution, they know shock valving better than most. They also have good general information on their website about shocks and valving. It wont be cheap. Airbags are a nice patch that don't cost as much, they are essentially cheap progressive bump stops.

https://accutuneoffroad.com/
 
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In regards to on-road performance, it does get more complex than that. (For off-road, particularly rock crawling, generally softer is better to a limit.)

The spring must also be able to support varying loads without excessive sag. The stiffer the spring, the less of an impact loading has on it. But at the same time, it must also fill the parameters you gave.

As a general rule of thumb, the stiffer the spring, the harsher the ride quality. That's why Super Dutys with the plow prep package warn of loss of ride quality. That is a sacrifice made to accommodate a wider range of loads (i.e., with/without a plow).

If the spring rate is too soft for the variance in loading, it will lead to a harsh ride when loaded because of low uptravel and constant bottoming out. I ran into this issue with the Currie springs, particularly when loaded, that I only had as little as two inches of uptravel. (That problem was solved by airbags.)

Spring rate will also affect the total energy and the momentum absorbed before bottoming out. A stiffer spring can absorb significantly more momentum and energy as it is compressed to the limits of travel, at the cost of significantly increased restorative force on its ends.

Consider the two extremes for springs: constant rate and solid. A constant rate spring (think of a tape measure) would theoretically provide the perfect ride, but would accommodate zero changing load and would not restore height after a bump. A solid spring (think of a piece of pipe welded in) would eliminate the issues of sag due to load and bottoming out at the cost of extremely high restorative forces.


As for how that relates to the original poster, I agree with you that the springs are unlikely the issue here. Most springs sold for the TJ tend to be within a reasonable range of rates, with Currie being among the lightest and Rough Country among the heaviest if I recall correctly.

If the OP actually is bottoming out constantly, that is most likely the fault of blown or inadequate shocks. If it's more due to loading or even soft spring rates, stiffer springs or stiffening systems like airbags could be the solution. Ultra-stiff springs will likely give a noticeably harsher ride.

Don't make me page you-know-who. 😉

I don't consider my TJ to have particularly long travel considering I'm still running factory shock mounts, but I'm already at the free length of my springs. If I were to add rate to reduce sag, I would end up with less downtravel and an unbalanced travel bias.

That's why I say that keeping within those limits (on a TJ) generally narrows the rates down enough that the extremes don't come in to play.
 
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