Sport Bar Improvements Discussion
- Thread starter xxdabroxx
- Start date
But we can predict the future. Some day each one of us will be dead.
Sport bars, roll bars, roll cages, etc. are at their most basic level attempts to change the odds of when and how.
Sure there is. All you have to choose is what you want the odds to be for being uninjured, moderately injured, seriously injured, or dead in the event of collision or rollover.
That being said, I am interested in what options there are for the factory sports bar than actually improve protection in a meaningful way.
Do some of these aftermarket bars that bolt onto the factory sport bar pose more of a risk of injury in the event of a rollover by having them on as oppose to not having them?
How far do these various cage "improvements" shift the risk from the factory setup? What are they doing that the factory bars and windshield frame aren't doing?
On top of that, the restraint systems need to be seriously considered. Not knowing any better, it feels to me like keeping a body contained and restrained inside the vehicle reduces the risks more effectively than adding a few tubes to our existing "cages".
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
The responses of this subject always strike me as odd.
A roll cage that is tied to the frame and properly built would be ideal. Many are quick to point out that adding to the existing bar is inadequate.
We spend $10k plus adding crap to our rigs yet how many guys are running actual cages? When adding a “sport cage” or just adding to stock bars the idea is poo poo. So is stock better than adding? We are quick to point out the inadequacy of the “sport” cage, but is it better than doing nothing?
In reality we are most likely at a higher risk of a severe accident on the highway vs off road.
Just a very funny/odd subject every time it comes up on a forum.
A roll cage that is tied to the frame and properly built would be ideal. Many are quick to point out that adding to the existing bar is inadequate.
We spend $10k plus adding crap to our rigs yet how many guys are running actual cages? When adding a “sport cage” or just adding to stock bars the idea is poo poo. So is stock better than adding? We are quick to point out the inadequacy of the “sport” cage, but is it better than doing nothing?
In reality we are most likely at a higher risk of a severe accident on the highway vs off road.
Just a very funny/odd subject every time it comes up on a forum.
This is from the other discussion. Lots of interesting points.
Is the goal to protect the occupants or the vehicle? In either case, the question of what is inadequate about the factory setup needs to be answered. Is the money and effort you put into these safety improvements doing what you think they are doing?
In the case of the A pillar plates seen in the first post, have you created a danger that wasn't there before?
Is the goal to protect the occupants or the vehicle? In either case, the question of what is inadequate about the factory setup needs to be answered. Is the money and effort you put into these safety improvements doing what you think they are doing?
In the case of the A pillar plates seen in the first post, have you created a danger that wasn't there before?
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OP
Better restraints would probably make a big difference. BUT, if you've ever worn 5 point harnesses you quickly realize that they greatly reduce your mobility in the cabin. If that switch is out of reach you aren't touching it, if you cant see a rock out of the window/shield you aren't popping your head out to have a look. All of that is likely to lead to them not being worn.
I think proper racing restraints fall into a similar category as a full cage where if you are going there you need to go completely there, helmet, padding, restraints, cage, etc. I have seriously considered adding a simpson lap belt for offroad use. You can cinch yourself down tight yet still have upper body mobility that is lost with the chest restraints. I don't know that I would do that for the passenger seat though and I would keep the factory 3 point belt for street use.
Realistically proper door bars with padding could be beneficial on a street driven rig in a wreck, however the inconvenience outweighs the benefits for a non-race vehicle. I wouldn't be opposed to a low bar with a slight bend in it though that stayed below the side bolster of say a PRP seat though. Could help triangulate the B pillar some but you are far from the strength of a proper cage.
This article has some good points: https://www.jegs.com/s/tech-article...cage.html&title=Building+your+first+roll+cage
It also points to the progression of a roll bar to a roll cage as the need arises and notes that a cage is always best except for street use where your noggin isn't always protected by a helmet. Our jeeps come from the factory with tubes from the A to B pillar so I don't think a cage is necessarily bad in our cabin being that we have so much head room. I wouldn't want to put a "X" bar directly above my head though.
If I wanted to protect the vehicle I'd have an exocage. /no
I have no issues with the factory bars. Myself, like a few others, enjoy our windshields folded down. What options are there for replacing those bars and A pillar?
Poorly built cages are like poorly built recovery points. When they fail bad things happen.
One thing I will say is that the companies making these aftermarket sport bar bolt-ons (or whatever we're calling them) don't have the type of money to do R&D on them. That being said, I suspect many of them are being marketed with false and misleading claims.
I have to imagine when they designed the TJ, the engineers knew it had no roof, so they knew they had to design something (the sport bar) that would work in the event of a roll over. They probably also figured that people would be taking them off-road. In addition, automobile manufacturers have to meet all sorts of safety and crash standards that these aftermarket companies do not.
It worries me that some of these companies are selling these sport bar additions without actually testing them (that I know of at least). Can any of them say for certain that none of these additions will potentially cause more serious injury?
I know @Tigerman rolled his TJ down a hill a number of times recently, and his stock sport bar held up find and protected him. I'm not sure what the need is to go beyond the stock sport bar, unless you have the front window down, at which point I could see how a bar there (replicating the window frame) would come in handy.
I'm not knowledgable at all on this subject, I'm merely speculating and guessing. I'm enjoying the conversation though.
I have to imagine when they designed the TJ, the engineers knew it had no roof, so they knew they had to design something (the sport bar) that would work in the event of a roll over. They probably also figured that people would be taking them off-road. In addition, automobile manufacturers have to meet all sorts of safety and crash standards that these aftermarket companies do not.
It worries me that some of these companies are selling these sport bar additions without actually testing them (that I know of at least). Can any of them say for certain that none of these additions will potentially cause more serious injury?
I know @Tigerman rolled his TJ down a hill a number of times recently, and his stock sport bar held up find and protected him. I'm not sure what the need is to go beyond the stock sport bar, unless you have the front window down, at which point I could see how a bar there (replicating the window frame) would come in handy.
I'm not knowledgable at all on this subject, I'm merely speculating and guessing. I'm enjoying the conversation though.
Do the sport bar manufacturers imply anything other than cosmetic uses? Even well built cages usually have some type of lawyer talk about not being a life saving device. Very touchy part of the automobile world.
Still looking for something for when my glass is down though. Lol
Still looking for something for when my glass is down though. Lol
I can imagine what yours looks like compared to the one I made recently.
Every bolt was over torqued to the point of being stretched and brittle. The wiring ran from the frame across the exhaust, down the track bar, and back up to the trailer hitch.
Not sure. I'd love for some links to the various sports bar "add-ons" to be posted here so that we can see what (if any) claims they are making.
Unfortunately the only kit worth mentioning for this use has been discontinued for about 5 years now. And even then, that kit caused a lot of people to falsely believe they were safer than they actually were and lacked triangulation. So unless you or someone you know can bend tubing I think you're better off not modifying.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
I never considered a roll cage to protect the Jeep? My biggest thing is safety. I in no way believe that there are no solutions other than mrblaines version of a cage. I skip some trails I could probably do because I don't trust the "sport cage" for more than one hit. Most trails around here have plenty of trees to keep you from rolling all the way bottom of the hill, but not always.
@toximus do you have any pics of the discontinued kit or the name of the builder?
@toximus do you have any pics of the discontinued kit or the name of the builder?
And that is where you get in trouble. Tumbling down a hill only has a chance to be survived by a cage, helmet, and 5 point.
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
@toximus, that would be super easy to make. A quick search found this kit w/o the plate A-pilar was A to Z. It needs some corner braces and would be a little harder to bend, but has a sort of triangulation. I would like to do something in the back, but not sure about how close the passenger's head would be with a similar addition from A to Z.
https://atozfabrication.com/front_sport_cage_addition_for_jeep_wrangler_yj_tj.html?category_id=46
I don't have a problem with any of that. A guy I met work through work builds a lot of off road stuff. I think I'll get his take on all this. Here are some vids of one of his crawlers.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ondroks/videos
https://atozfabrication.com/front_sport_cage_addition_for_jeep_wrangler_yj_tj.html?category_id=46
I don't have a problem with any of that. A guy I met work through work builds a lot of off road stuff. I think I'll get his take on all this. Here are some vids of one of his crawlers.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ondroks/videos