jeepster1407
TJ Enthusiast
Nice work. That warranty claim seems to have gone smooth for you? Which brand shaft was it that broke?
Tennessee Red
- Thread starter gasiorv
- Start date
OP
Ten Factory. I emailed them in the morning and they shipped it that day.
OP
A lot of net surfing and thinking this week about my rig. Since I bought this thing, I have been wanting to move the fuel tank from under the rig and into the cargo area and push the rear axle back approx 8". I have also wanted to hi-line the front and then run 37's. Unfortunately, I think I am always going to have this in the back of my mind.
However; after much deliberation this past week, I don't think I want to move my fuel tank into the cargo area for quite a few years, possibly never. Without this critical step, I don't think I will be able to fully obtain my original desired build. So, I had to do some serious thinking about what I want to actually do with this thing.
I think I have come to the following conclusion:
I want a TJ that:
I am currently at:
35" tires
93" wheelbase
Frame height - 20-1/4"
Lowest height at skid - 19"
Current issues with my jeep:
Good things with my jeep:
Since I can't push my wheel base to an adequate length for 37" tires, keep the 35" tires and try to remove some of the sketchiness.
I just purchased a GR Crawl23 tank which will require the rear shocks to be outboarded. I also have already purchased the towers and shocks to outbd the rear shocks.
However; after much deliberation this past week, I don't think I want to move my fuel tank into the cargo area for quite a few years, possibly never. Without this critical step, I don't think I will be able to fully obtain my original desired build. So, I had to do some serious thinking about what I want to actually do with this thing.
I think I have come to the following conclusion:
I want a TJ that:
- I can use to rock crawl most of the hardest trails in the SE and Midsouth/Midwest (Hawk Pride Hot Springs, AOP, Iron Gap, Harlan, Windrock, SMORR, Green Acres, etc...).
- Do some camping out of at the Cove and possibly in the Ozarks and Ouachitas.
- I also want a rig that I can take out west and run not only hard trails, but also longer multi-day trails. My list would include JV, Rubicon, Fordyce, Dusy-Ershim, etc....
- It will be trailered to the trails and won't be a daily driver, but I still want it to be able to perform decent on the road so that the wife and I can jump in it on a Sunday afternoon and drive it to a local brewery for a beer OR if something happens to one of our daily's I could get by with driving the jeep to work for a week or two while the daily gets fixed.
- I want the ability to throw camping gear or the back seat in when needed, but mostly the rear cargo area will just be used to carry my normal day trip rock crawling gear.
I am currently at:
35" tires
93" wheelbase
Frame height - 20-1/4"
Lowest height at skid - 19"
Current issues with my jeep:
- Lifting of front drivers side wheel when in steep climbs.
- Short Arm bounce when I loose traction on steps.
- I have no rear sway bar because I either break the links or the actual sway bar when I run a sway bar (yes I have snapped two stock sway bars) and it gets a little unstable and possibly aids in the lift of the front wheel.
- Constantly breaking stuff related to axle (shafts, lockers, spiders, R&P, I have broken it all front and rear) and this is with crawling, not bouncing or mudding.
- Drive shaft issues (ujoints, centering balls, etc..) mostly on the rear due to the shortness of the shaft. Also, I am currently cheating my pinion angle a little down in the rear in order to keep the track bar from hitting the fuel tank skid which is putting additional stress on the shaft.
- Body is pretty beat and I am having trouble with getting doors to close.
Good things with my jeep:
- It goes! It pretty much does everything I want, but it gets a little sketchy sometimes.
- I like it, which goes a long way.
- It is a toy and will be treated as such.
Since I can't push my wheel base to an adequate length for 37" tires, keep the 35" tires and try to remove some of the sketchiness.
I just purchased a GR Crawl23 tank which will require the rear shocks to be outboarded. I also have already purchased the towers and shocks to outbd the rear shocks.
- So Step 1 is going to be to outbd the rear shocks and install the fuel tank. This is going to be a multi process step because I need to get my ride height with all the weight (including fuel and normal crawling gear, camping gear will be the outlier and not accounted for) in order to properly outbd the shocks and I will also want to push the rear axle back slightly and to rotate the pinion to correct angle so I will need to remove and install parts numerous times while measuring, etc... to get everything set correct.
- Step 2 - with the pinion angle hopefully set correctly and inline with the driveshaft, see if I need to add a center limiting strap to avoid excessive stress on the drive shaft.
- After I get the fuel tank installed and the shocks outbd, I will most likely take for a wheeling trip and see if the outbd shocks improve the stability, if it does not improve enough, then Step 3 would be to install a rear antirock.
- Step 3 is going to be to do something about the short arms and the antisquat issue. TBD. I have preliminarily designed my own single triangulated 4 link which will cost about $1200 or just bite the bullet and buy the savvy mid arm for $2800 and do both the rear and front. Right now I have been focused on the rear and haven't even thought about the front yet.
- Step 4 is going to be to do something about the axles. I honestly don't want to go with 1 tons because I don't want the larger size differentials with the 35" tires. So it is going to have to be living with the stock Dana 44 (and figure out how to upgrade), upgrade to JL Dana 44's, or go Ford 9inch.
- I already have chromoly shafts in the rear, RCVs up front, brand new front and rear lockers, new front and rear R&P, so not sure what I can do to make the current axles more stout. Everything has a great warranty on it and has been warrantied at least once, but it is not about the cost it is about breaking. A great warranty doesn't do anything to help you finish the trail.
- Hopefully, as more and more JLs get modified, there will be more and more JL/JT rubicon axles for sale and I can grab them. That little extra beefiness should be enough with the 35's. Also, the extra width would help with my stability.
- Aftermarket 9 inches are just plain sexy, but out of my budget at the current time (unless I can find someone dumping a set).
- JL/JT Rubicon D44s with brakes included is my current wish list, so if anyone comes across a set for sale let me know.
For the rear axle... Look at Colorado's. It's a leaf spring, but it's the same M220 Dana axle that they put in the JL. Your gonna have to strip brackets and weld new ones on anyway. Might be a cheaper way to go from a junk yard... Plus... You might get lucky and get a ZR2 with the e-locker.
Note: I don't know the WMS to WMS measurement of the Colorado, but having one, I don't think it would be too much.
OP
Well I ripped out my stock fuel tank today. I must say that I had a lot of "free" clearance with how bent the skid was, the rear cross member was also bent pretty substantial which gave additional clearance. Going to suck putting in this large tank in, but being able to get my pinion angle correct and also the extra fuel should be worth it.
I will add some pics of the bent skid and cross member and how to get "free" clearance later.
I tried to straighten the cross member, but figured it would be best to just replace it so I ordered a new heavy duty rear cross member from motobilt and don't plan on reinstalling the rear bumper.
I then started on the spring perch relocation but after I got the first one cut off, I quickly realized that they were rusted too bad to reuse (my plan was to just cut off cleanly and then clock them and reinstall). I realized this after I punched a screw driver through it in numerous locations. So I also just purchased new OEM style (Dorman) spring perches, once they are in I will reinstall.
I put the GR Crawler 23 tank up into place and it is a real tight fit and I don't like how low it hangs, but it definitely allows for more room between the diff and track bar. I got to figure out if or how to hook up the evap, the 2004 stock tank has two vent/check valves going to the evap and then two lines running to the front of the jeep and one running to the fill tube vent. I think I can just hook the vents on the top of the GR to the "check valve" lines, just got to figure out connectors, etc....
I will add some pics of the bent skid and cross member and how to get "free" clearance later.
I tried to straighten the cross member, but figured it would be best to just replace it so I ordered a new heavy duty rear cross member from motobilt and don't plan on reinstalling the rear bumper.
I then started on the spring perch relocation but after I got the first one cut off, I quickly realized that they were rusted too bad to reuse (my plan was to just cut off cleanly and then clock them and reinstall). I realized this after I punched a screw driver through it in numerous locations. So I also just purchased new OEM style (Dorman) spring perches, once they are in I will reinstall.
I put the GR Crawler 23 tank up into place and it is a real tight fit and I don't like how low it hangs, but it definitely allows for more room between the diff and track bar. I got to figure out if or how to hook up the evap, the 2004 stock tank has two vent/check valves going to the evap and then two lines running to the front of the jeep and one running to the fill tube vent. I think I can just hook the vents on the top of the GR to the "check valve" lines, just got to figure out connectors, etc....
OP
OP
Some pics of the 23 gallon crawler.
Installed showing clearance between tank and diff. My exhaust was already cutoff as shown, it would be nearly impossible to run exhaust to the back with this tank.
It hangs much lower in the back.
I originally was hoping that I could raise the tank higher by raising the cross members 1.25" (equivalent of my body lift). However, the tank has no more room to go up on the aft side, there is approx a 1/4" between the tank and the tub on the aft side and approx a 1/4" between the tank and the fwd cross member. While I could cut and move the fwd cross member up 1.25", since the aft side of the tank only has 1/4" until it hits the tub the aft side is pretty much where it is going to be (unless I want to modify the tub which I do not at this time).
Installed showing clearance between tank and diff. My exhaust was already cutoff as shown, it would be nearly impossible to run exhaust to the back with this tank.
It hangs much lower in the back.
I originally was hoping that I could raise the tank higher by raising the cross members 1.25" (equivalent of my body lift). However, the tank has no more room to go up on the aft side, there is approx a 1/4" between the tank and the tub on the aft side and approx a 1/4" between the tank and the fwd cross member. While I could cut and move the fwd cross member up 1.25", since the aft side of the tank only has 1/4" until it hits the tub the aft side is pretty much where it is going to be (unless I want to modify the tub which I do not at this time).
Great looking Tj- aren’t you from Pennsylvania? Seems we used to see you there all the time years back?
OP
Born and raised in PA, but I haven't lived in PA for a long, long time. By the grace of God, I married an east TN girl which started my journey southward. Unfortunately my employer moved me away from the hills and mountains of East TN to Memphis, but we try to make the best of it here in the flatland.
I guess Genright designs that large tank to require a body lift, eh? I guess that's one of the costs - along with the exhaust limitation - for the extra capacity. On my 19 gallon I was able to tuck it up about 1 .5" after doing the body lift for the Hemi. I actually cut the flange off the tank skid and rewelded it lower.
But I know that the extra capacity is important for you, so I agree that those issues are but a small price to pay.
Nice work Vic.
But I know that the extra capacity is important for you, so I agree that those issues are but a small price to pay.
Nice work Vic.
OP
Yeah, GR requires a 1" BL for the 23 but I was still hoping to gain a little more. If it turns out the clearance is an issue and I am constantly hitting I will just sell the 23 and look at getting the smaller tank. I got such a good deal on the 23 that it is definitely worth giving it a try.
OP
I got the new rear cross member from Motobilt and I modified it to be able to take my 1up bike rack and added a few D-ring attach points. I had already planned to modify to add the receiver for the bike rack, but even if I hadn't I would have gotten rid of that "M" that they put right in the middle of the cross-member. I hate having logos on my jeep and I wish mfr didn't do that crap.
I didn't want the receiver sticking out very far so I only made it long enough to take the 1up (which has an internal tightening ball and not a pin). The little tab is for the safety strap, when you have a few grand of a bicycle hanging off the back a safety strap or reinforced zip tie goes a long way!!
I didn't want the receiver sticking out very far so I only made it long enough to take the 1up (which has an internal tightening ball and not a pin). The little tab is for the safety strap, when you have a few grand of a bicycle hanging off the back a safety strap or reinforced zip tie goes a long way!!
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OP
After I got the rear cross member installed and had a solid attach point for the GR23 tank I was able to get good measurements and I had 1.5" between the rear of the tank and the body and about 1/4" at the front cross member. So I made the decision to raise the fwd and aft cross member 1.25" which will allow me to raise the tank another 1.25".
I already got the fwd cross member raised (since the shocks will no longer be using the cross member for upper attach, it was pretty easy to raise) and I will work on the rear cross member this weekend. So when I am done I will only have the 1.25" body lift pucks on the front, all other body mount locations will have been raised the 1.25". "Now what to do with these 1.25" aluminum pucks" as I look at my son's jeep.
I already got the fwd cross member raised (since the shocks will no longer be using the cross member for upper attach, it was pretty easy to raise) and I will work on the rear cross member this weekend. So when I am done I will only have the 1.25" body lift pucks on the front, all other body mount locations will have been raised the 1.25". "Now what to do with these 1.25" aluminum pucks" as I look at my son's jeep.
OP
GR23 installed 1.25" higher.
It can't go any higher without actually cutting into the body. It is 17 1/4" clearance from ground at the aft lower edge and 15 1/4" at the most fwd lower edge. My stock tank was at 17 3/4" from the ground at the most aft edge. The GR has a slope on the back side so the aft lower edge is farther forward than the stock tank, so hopefully the 1/2" loss is not an issue.
Now I am starting on the shock outboard.
It can't go any higher without actually cutting into the body. It is 17 1/4" clearance from ground at the aft lower edge and 15 1/4" at the most fwd lower edge. My stock tank was at 17 3/4" from the ground at the most aft edge. The GR has a slope on the back side so the aft lower edge is farther forward than the stock tank, so hopefully the 1/2" loss is not an issue.
Now I am starting on the shock outboard.
OP
Not yet, I still haven't hooked up the fuel/vapor lines yet but looks like there is plenty of room. Also, as you are aware, it would be impossible to route the exhaust back past this tank. I learned a few lessons on why it is dangerous to give an Engineer a grinder and welder, but other than that it has not been an issue.
If I was to do it again, I would make a custom fwd crossmember which would allow me to get the fwd lower edge of the tank even higher (and it would pull up the aft edge a little as well). It would be easy to do, but it didn't occur to me until I was done.
OP
I started on my passenger side shock outboard and learned the importance of measuring correctly. Luckily it just cost me time and some welding wire/gas and I was able to save the parts and correct. Not only is it important to measure twice, but also understand "what" the measurement is representing.
OP
Well, my buddies delayed our next wheeling trip from Dec 10 to sometime in Jan 2022 so I had my Jeep on the back burner for the last few weeks. But I learned another important lesson on why you shouldn't drive while looking at your phone and while driving my wife's car in a parking garage and looking at my cell phone for where we were to meet our friends I cut a turn to sharp and touched a wall with the rear fender. So my wife's car went into the body shop this week and she is driving my truck. Fortunately I have been working from home office this week, but I wanted a vehicle handy just in case so I finished up my jeep project early this morning.
I am happy with the way it turned out.
Wheel sits just about centered, when it articulates up at bump it is just touching the rear fender well.
Tank has 17 1/2" from ground to aft lower edge of tank. My previous tank had 17 3/4" so the loss of 1/4" with an additional 4 gal and clearance was worth the sacrifice. You can also see the lower shock mounts have been raised.
I used the lower edge of the shock tower that I cut off to fabricate the track bar mount. Picture makes it look like it is hitting tank, but it is not, there is clearance.
The shock outboard did not give me the sway/roll control that some have talked about and without the rear sway bar it still has a lot of lean when entering a turn. Last two OEM sway bars have broke on me, but I may head to a junk yard and see if I can find another one.
I am happy with the way it turned out.
- GR23 Crawler tank installed with 17 1/2" clearance from ground at ride height. A drive around the neighborhood and the CEL did not come on so the way I vented the tank into the evap system seems to work (I am not going to celebrate yet, going to wait a few more warm up cycles before I pat myself on the back).
- New tank allowed me to properly align my pinion angle without track bar making contact. And there is plenty of clearance if I want to push the axle back anymore, but right now I like it centered in the wheel well. Hopefully properly aligned pinion angle will help my ujoints last a little longer.
- New Rear bumper raised 1.25" and ready to take my 1up bike rack if needed.
- Shocks outboarded with a 50/50 split on 12" shocks, I have been wanting to do this for some time in order to get my shock lower mounts up higher and I also had to do it for the GR23 tank to fit.
- New frame side spring perches which are centered in the arch
Wheel sits just about centered, when it articulates up at bump it is just touching the rear fender well.
Tank has 17 1/2" from ground to aft lower edge of tank. My previous tank had 17 3/4" so the loss of 1/4" with an additional 4 gal and clearance was worth the sacrifice. You can also see the lower shock mounts have been raised.
I used the lower edge of the shock tower that I cut off to fabricate the track bar mount. Picture makes it look like it is hitting tank, but it is not, there is clearance.
The shock outboard did not give me the sway/roll control that some have talked about and without the rear sway bar it still has a lot of lean when entering a turn. Last two OEM sway bars have broke on me, but I may head to a junk yard and see if I can find another one.