OP
Tennessee Red
- Thread starter gasiorv
- Start date
Brianj5600
TJ Expert
I'll never forget when you climbed out of Merlin. It took a bit for you to get in position and to climb out, but you were definitely putting on a clinic.
OP
Well this year is about Bucket List trips and we just completed one of them. For Christian's spring break we headed to Arizona to do some wheeling. Originally it was just going to be me and Christian but Tonya decided to take the week off and go with us which made it even better. This may be the last trip that I actually needed the rear seat, time will tell. A friend of mine (Scott) just moved to Arizona last december and this was perfect opportunity to head out and visit with him and also to explore the trails in the area, in addition, I pinged Garrett to see if he would be able to meet up while I was out there and he was so a great opportunity to meet another like minded wheeler!
I actually did a lot of work on the jeep in prep for this trip (changed ball joints, front unit bearings, greased all johnny joints, changed all fluids, etc....) but what I was really excited for was that I just bought a set of 37" BFG Reds and they were waiting for me in Arizona (bought them from a guy in Texas but Scott happened to be an hour away from the guy in Texas for a meeting so he grabbed them and took them back to Arizona). This excitement led to me installing those tires as soon as I got to Arizona and may have led to some of my problems which followed
Memphis to Apache Juntion AZ is a two day drive (13 hrs first day and 8 hrs second day). On the drive out we had a very strong head wind out of the west across most of OK and TX which resulted in about 8.3 MPG avg, but when we hit NM the winds got crazy!! One time a wind gust hit me so hard that the truck felt like it completely stopped for a second, I actually thought that the engine quit or that Aliens shot us with a tracker beam and we were about to be probed. We stayed the night in Santa Rosa, NM and on Sunday morning on the local ABQ news they were reporting that across NM there was going to be 30-40MPH sustained winds and gusts up to 75mph. On Sunday, my fuel avg was 6.9 mpg avg and I ran mostly 60-65mph (speed limit is 75mph) and the truck was in 4th gear most of the time to just maintain that 65mph. I watched one 18 wheeler trailer get blown across two lanes and luckily did not roll. It was crazy!!
There was one hint of good luck during this beginning phase where I actually ran out of gas in the truck, but I ran out just as I entered the exit ramp and I was able to maintain momentum and coast all the way to the gas pump, I thought this is going to be a great trip!
On Sunday, the closer we got to Apache Junction, the more and more SxS and Jeeps that I saw and I was getting excited. We got to the VRBO around 5pm and I quickly unpacked and headed over to visit with my friend Scott. We talked about the wheeling we were going to do that week, he talked about his new job at the RV park, his new girlfriend Bri, etc…. It was great to get caught up. But it was also great to get my tires and I ran back to the VRBO and installed them that night.
Monday Day 1 - Elvis, Axle Alley, Jack Handle, Nice Little Obstacle (on OnX maps), Box Canyon
Scott and I met in the morning in Florence and headed out. First trail was Elvis trail since we are from Memphis. Well I was pretty let down with Elvis trail and it was pretty boring with no real obstacles at all? Next Trail was Axle Alley and things got real fun, real fast, this was a great trail with some great rocks, but there was one waterfall that neither Scott nor I could make (straight up and at least 11 ft). This is also where we learned that our 6' tree savers were useless in Arizona because there are no trees to winch off, just large rocks, luckily I had a 20' strap that were able to use to wrap a boulder and winch Scott up the waterfall and then I hooked on to him to winch up the waterfall. There were several waterfalls and obstacles after the big waterfall that I did not think I would make, but I made them with relative ease (traction, wow, I love traction). From here we headed over and did Jack Handle which was pretty fun but very short. I then started looking at OnX and discovered a waypoint called Nice Little Obstacle, and I also at this time learned how to read a map and discovered that we didn't actually do Elvis trail on the way out but some "Sand" road, so plan was formulated to hit the "Nice Little Obstacle" and the top part of Elvis trail where the "hard" part was. Nice Little Obstacle had three lines, and I tried the hard line at first and I fell into the crack. I crunched the rear corner pretty darn good. I tried to take the left line and fell into a hole which put me hard against the wall on the left. Had to hook up Scott’s winch to pull me off the wall so I could back out. Luckily, the tire didn’t get a hole or tear in side wall but the rear corner got really, really crunched. The top part of Elvis trail was fun and we hit every obstacle, may have even made up some obstacles. We then decided to take a scenic way back to truck and go through Box Canyon, which was really fun and great to see.
Mondays issues/inspection results: Had an issue with the front axle where diff fluid was leaking from pinion around the pinion nut. It wasn’t leaking bad enough to ever have to add fluid, but since it was leaking onto the rotating yoke, it was throwing the fluid everywhere and I could smell it during the day. After wheeling all day, I pulled the driveshaft and the pinion nut was loose. I removed the nut, cleaned up the threads, applied loctite and reinstalled the nut using the Milwaukee ⅜” impact. The pinion seemed to be good, no bearing play, etc… and I never had another issue with it.
Tuesday Day 2 - Woodpecker, Highway 2 Hell, LOD
Scott and I met up with Garrett at parking area and headed out on Cottonwood. We hit woodpecker which had a few good obstacles and then we got to Highway 2 Hell. We payed our respect to the totem pole of parts and headed for the big v notch on Highway 2 Hell. All three of us made it through the Vnotch and were making good time on H2H. This is ultimately what got me, making good time Our original plan was to hit woodpecker and H2H with Garrett on Tuesday and then hit LOD with Garrett on Thursday, but Garrett said that we were making such good time on H2H that we could actually hit LOD today and then ADD No limits to the list for Thurs. Well this makes all the sense in the world to me, be able to hit more trails, let's do it. So after a successful H2H, we headed to LOD. LOD is a very fun trail!! It is my kind of trail, constant boulders and obstacles to pick your way through. I was watching Garrett work that TJ on 35s through and I was just amazed, such fun to watch. It was so much fun and then it wasn't. I pinched the passenger side rear tire between a few rocks and it sheared off the wheel studs on that wheel. Dead in the water with no wheel/tire. Originally tried to weld the studs back on but couldn't get them to hold so we robbed two studs from the other side. So had three studs on drivers side and two studs on the passenger side. Even with winching the two studs only made it about 20' before breaking (this time breaking the wheel) even with winch hooked up and pulling. So I guess the magic number on studs is three, not two! Decided that it would just be best to leave jeep sit there for night and get all new studs from O'Reilys in the morning and to replace all the studs before trying to drive out again. Neither Scott nor Garrett has rear seat, so we put Tonya in Garrett's passenger seat and Christian and I walked most of LOD and then jumped in the back of Garrett's jeep and rode the top of the spare tire back to the truck on the access roads, very bumpy access roads I may add!
Wed Day 3 - Plan was Terminator, Predator, Judgment Day; however, it was now recover my jeep from LOD day.
Scott and I left Apache Junction at 10am after I gathered all the parts that I would need to replace the studs and fix what was damaged. The fix went really smoothly and I got to finish LOD under my own power and on my own wheels. It was actually a fun day out on the trail and Tonya and Christian got a day of rest and went and saw Dune 2 while I was out on the trail. Again, overall a good day on the trail! Left apache junction at 10am and I was showered and picked up Tonya and Christian at the movie theater at 4:30pm, so we made some time.
Thurs Day 4 - No Limits
Scott ended up having to work and could not join us, so it was just Garrett and myself (Mike, Beestinger, did try to join us but had some issues at the trailhead with his tires and decided to not go). We headed out access road and got to the trailhead. I very quickly realized that this was going to be my favorite trail of the week, it was non-stop boulders to pick your way through, my kind of trail. Unfortunately, about 1/8 of the way through the trail on maybe the 4th or 5th obstacle and probably the 2nd biggest obstacle of the day (gatekeeper being 1) something popped in my front axle and I had no power to my drivers side front wheel, just a lot of clicking and popping. It also started to downpour rain and also hail at this time. Yes, rain and hail in the desert! I had parts back in my truck, but my truck was like an hour away and I didn't want for Christian and Tonya to have to sit there for hours (like they did on Tuesday at LOD) waiting for me to fix my jeep, especially since now they would be sitting in rain. So I convinced Garrett that it would be best to turn around and exit the trail the way we came in. We had some minor issues getting back down, but nothing major and I think it was the right decision. Unfortunately, I didn't get to finish No Limits and I really want to go back and do it again!!
Friday Day 5 was a planned off day and Christian and I did some Mt Biking at a local trail system called Hawes, it was a lot of fun!!
Overall a great trip and I got to see Arizona trails, check off a bucket list item, met some great people, visited with old friends, and met new friends. I also got to spend the week with my wife and my youngest son which was awesome.
As normal, I did not get a lot of pictures. But I did have the go pro running part of the time and put together a video. If i get any other pictures in the future, I will post them up.
Video of some of the wheeling:
Video of Hawes Mt Bike:
I actually did a lot of work on the jeep in prep for this trip (changed ball joints, front unit bearings, greased all johnny joints, changed all fluids, etc....) but what I was really excited for was that I just bought a set of 37" BFG Reds and they were waiting for me in Arizona (bought them from a guy in Texas but Scott happened to be an hour away from the guy in Texas for a meeting so he grabbed them and took them back to Arizona). This excitement led to me installing those tires as soon as I got to Arizona and may have led to some of my problems which followed
Memphis to Apache Juntion AZ is a two day drive (13 hrs first day and 8 hrs second day). On the drive out we had a very strong head wind out of the west across most of OK and TX which resulted in about 8.3 MPG avg, but when we hit NM the winds got crazy!! One time a wind gust hit me so hard that the truck felt like it completely stopped for a second, I actually thought that the engine quit or that Aliens shot us with a tracker beam and we were about to be probed. We stayed the night in Santa Rosa, NM and on Sunday morning on the local ABQ news they were reporting that across NM there was going to be 30-40MPH sustained winds and gusts up to 75mph. On Sunday, my fuel avg was 6.9 mpg avg and I ran mostly 60-65mph (speed limit is 75mph) and the truck was in 4th gear most of the time to just maintain that 65mph. I watched one 18 wheeler trailer get blown across two lanes and luckily did not roll. It was crazy!!
There was one hint of good luck during this beginning phase where I actually ran out of gas in the truck, but I ran out just as I entered the exit ramp and I was able to maintain momentum and coast all the way to the gas pump, I thought this is going to be a great trip!
On Sunday, the closer we got to Apache Junction, the more and more SxS and Jeeps that I saw and I was getting excited. We got to the VRBO around 5pm and I quickly unpacked and headed over to visit with my friend Scott. We talked about the wheeling we were going to do that week, he talked about his new job at the RV park, his new girlfriend Bri, etc…. It was great to get caught up. But it was also great to get my tires and I ran back to the VRBO and installed them that night.
Monday Day 1 - Elvis, Axle Alley, Jack Handle, Nice Little Obstacle (on OnX maps), Box Canyon
Scott and I met in the morning in Florence and headed out. First trail was Elvis trail since we are from Memphis. Well I was pretty let down with Elvis trail and it was pretty boring with no real obstacles at all? Next Trail was Axle Alley and things got real fun, real fast, this was a great trail with some great rocks, but there was one waterfall that neither Scott nor I could make (straight up and at least 11 ft). This is also where we learned that our 6' tree savers were useless in Arizona because there are no trees to winch off, just large rocks, luckily I had a 20' strap that were able to use to wrap a boulder and winch Scott up the waterfall and then I hooked on to him to winch up the waterfall. There were several waterfalls and obstacles after the big waterfall that I did not think I would make, but I made them with relative ease (traction, wow, I love traction). From here we headed over and did Jack Handle which was pretty fun but very short. I then started looking at OnX and discovered a waypoint called Nice Little Obstacle, and I also at this time learned how to read a map and discovered that we didn't actually do Elvis trail on the way out but some "Sand" road, so plan was formulated to hit the "Nice Little Obstacle" and the top part of Elvis trail where the "hard" part was. Nice Little Obstacle had three lines, and I tried the hard line at first and I fell into the crack. I crunched the rear corner pretty darn good. I tried to take the left line and fell into a hole which put me hard against the wall on the left. Had to hook up Scott’s winch to pull me off the wall so I could back out. Luckily, the tire didn’t get a hole or tear in side wall but the rear corner got really, really crunched. The top part of Elvis trail was fun and we hit every obstacle, may have even made up some obstacles. We then decided to take a scenic way back to truck and go through Box Canyon, which was really fun and great to see.
Mondays issues/inspection results: Had an issue with the front axle where diff fluid was leaking from pinion around the pinion nut. It wasn’t leaking bad enough to ever have to add fluid, but since it was leaking onto the rotating yoke, it was throwing the fluid everywhere and I could smell it during the day. After wheeling all day, I pulled the driveshaft and the pinion nut was loose. I removed the nut, cleaned up the threads, applied loctite and reinstalled the nut using the Milwaukee ⅜” impact. The pinion seemed to be good, no bearing play, etc… and I never had another issue with it.
Tuesday Day 2 - Woodpecker, Highway 2 Hell, LOD
Scott and I met up with Garrett at parking area and headed out on Cottonwood. We hit woodpecker which had a few good obstacles and then we got to Highway 2 Hell. We payed our respect to the totem pole of parts and headed for the big v notch on Highway 2 Hell. All three of us made it through the Vnotch and were making good time on H2H. This is ultimately what got me, making good time
Our original plan was to hit woodpecker and H2H with Garrett on Tuesday and then hit LOD with Garrett on Thursday, but Garrett said that we were making such good time on H2H that we could actually hit LOD today and then ADD No limits to the list for Thurs. Well this makes all the sense in the world to me, be able to hit more trails, let's do it. So after a successful H2H, we headed to LOD. LOD is a very fun trail!! It is my kind of trail, constant boulders and obstacles to pick your way through. I was watching Garrett work that TJ on 35s through and I was just amazed, such fun to watch. It was so much fun and then it wasn't. I pinched the passenger side rear tire between a few rocks and it sheared off the wheel studs on that wheel. Dead in the water with no wheel/tire. Originally tried to weld the studs back on but couldn't get them to hold so we robbed two studs from the other side. So had three studs on drivers side and two studs on the passenger side. Even with winching the two studs only made it about 20' before breaking (this time breaking the wheel) even with winch hooked up and pulling. So I guess the magic number on studs is three, not two! Decided that it would just be best to leave jeep sit there for night and get all new studs from O'Reilys in the morning and to replace all the studs before trying to drive out again. Neither Scott nor Garrett has rear seat, so we put Tonya in Garrett's passenger seat and Christian and I walked most of LOD and then jumped in the back of Garrett's jeep and rode the top of the spare tire back to the truck on the access roads, very bumpy access roads I may add!Wed Day 3 - Plan was Terminator, Predator, Judgment Day; however, it was now recover my jeep from LOD day.
Scott and I left Apache Junction at 10am after I gathered all the parts that I would need to replace the studs and fix what was damaged. The fix went really smoothly and I got to finish LOD under my own power and on my own wheels. It was actually a fun day out on the trail and Tonya and Christian got a day of rest and went and saw Dune 2 while I was out on the trail. Again, overall a good day on the trail! Left apache junction at 10am and I was showered and picked up Tonya and Christian at the movie theater at 4:30pm, so we made some time.
Thurs Day 4 - No Limits
Scott ended up having to work and could not join us, so it was just Garrett and myself (Mike, Beestinger, did try to join us but had some issues at the trailhead with his tires and decided to not go). We headed out access road and got to the trailhead. I very quickly realized that this was going to be my favorite trail of the week, it was non-stop boulders to pick your way through, my kind of trail. Unfortunately, about 1/8 of the way through the trail on maybe the 4th or 5th obstacle and probably the 2nd biggest obstacle of the day (gatekeeper being 1) something popped in my front axle and I had no power to my drivers side front wheel, just a lot of clicking and popping. It also started to downpour rain and also hail at this time. Yes, rain and hail in the desert! I had parts back in my truck, but my truck was like an hour away and I didn't want for Christian and Tonya to have to sit there for hours (like they did on Tuesday at LOD) waiting for me to fix my jeep, especially since now they would be sitting in rain. So I convinced Garrett that it would be best to turn around and exit the trail the way we came in. We had some minor issues getting back down, but nothing major and I think it was the right decision. Unfortunately, I didn't get to finish No Limits and I really want to go back and do it again!!
Friday Day 5 was a planned off day and Christian and I did some Mt Biking at a local trail system called Hawes, it was a lot of fun!!
Overall a great trip and I got to see Arizona trails, check off a bucket list item, met some great people, visited with old friends, and met new friends. I also got to spend the week with my wife and my youngest son which was awesome.
As normal, I did not get a lot of pictures. But I did have the go pro running part of the time and put together a video. If i get any other pictures in the future, I will post them up.
Video of some of the wheeling:
Video of Hawes Mt Bike:
OP
Pic of cracked RCV internal. I sent RCV warranty an email to see if they would warranty it, but I already had a rebuild kit in my box so I installed the spare and it is fixed and ready.
OP
Forgot to add that we had a light tail wind all the way home and my avg mpg on the way home was about 10mpg!!
Now I have a conundrum, abandon the stickies all together or run them next week in Hot Springs? They are currently still installed.....
Now I have a conundrum, abandon the stickies all together or run them next week in Hot Springs? They are currently still installed.....
OP
The general consensus around here is to run them because we don't have traction in the east. But everyone looks at me like I am crazy when I say I ran them out west on a Dana 44
OP
Funny I was reading the part about how there’s no obstacles on Elvis and I’m like what the heck I know it’s just the warm up trail but it still has some really fun play areas. Then it all made sense, you took the road next to it 
the beginning of Elvis has a bunch of optional fun stuff and there’s a few fun waterfalls on it.
the beginning of Elvis has a bunch of optional fun stuff and there’s a few fun waterfalls on it.
OP
RCV sent me an email last night that they shipped out a rebuild kit.
The below is just capturing my thoughts after the AZ trip and something that I can come back to the next time I am planning a big trip and not really looking for debate, but if you have anything that you want to add, please comment.
I have wheeled in Moab several times and now in Arizona. I have also wheeled in OK, AR, MO, TN, AL, WV, KY, and PA. By far my favorite wheeling was in Clayton OK in October during a very dry season where there was traction galore and the terrain was non-stop rock gardens. Hot Springs in AR and SMORR in MO are kind of similar (terrain and traction wise) where the rocks don't have much traction when dry and when they get wet or get some mud on them they become like ice. TN and KY has more mud, tree roots, and rutted trails and trails are STEEP! Once you get to the rocks, they have little traction. AL has much more clay and mud to deal with but not as steep as TN and KY, if the rocks are dry they actually tend to have a little traction, but they are never dry. WV was weird in that some of the rocks have great natural traction and some had none, also, the soil between the rocks is very loose and not clay (more like topsoil) so if you spin your tires between rocks you sink very fast and thus you loose clearance that you just had very quickly. The wheeling I did in PA was when I was much, much, younger and I really don't remember!
Everyone always asks west coast vs east coast what is the difference. I am not talking about "builds" for west coast vs east coast; I am strictly talking about the area/terrain/external factors.
So far what I have discovered:
1. Better natural traction out west. I am not just talking "Moab" traction, just traction in general.
2. Less trees (if any) to hook to as winch points out west, winch points aren't always available out west so you need to look before attempting an obstacle to be sure if you get in trouble you can get yourself out. You also need to have a strap that will wrap around rocks and possibly even a winch line extension.
3. Actual trails tend to be much farther from the truck/trailer out west so you need;
3a. Rig that is built to travel wash boarded, baby headed, roads at decent speed.
3b. Carry parts/tools in the jeep because you can't rely on the parts you left in the truck/trailer.
4. Trail availability (there is so much public land and available trails out west) which circles back to item 3.
5. Temperature swings from morning, afternoon, night, and the sun intensity is much more in the west. I think the sun intensity is mostly due to the fact that there is no trees and you are in the sun the whole time.
6. Probably applies everywhere, but due to the mud and the rock not having natural traction it definitely plays a bigger role in the East - Rain can change a trail very, very, quickly. This can be rain at the time you are actually on the trail and it can also be rain in the days leading up to the trip. I have wheeled the same park in wet conditions and dry conditions and they are totally different, I have wheeled the same trail in the morning and night (after rain) and they are totally different. I have been on a trail when it started raining and the trail went from crawling fun to rock bouncer and even winch pull after winch pull. TN, AL, KY parks are much better in late summer/early fall when it is dry, not saying they are not fun in the winter/spring, but you will have much more fun when it is dry. Same applies to AR, MO, and OK but due to more rock (less mud) it is not as prevalent. This difference when wet also plays a big role in the time associated with completing a trail. I have done trails at windrock when wet that took hours to complete and when they were dry took minutes (not exaggerating).
7. My favorite trails are rock gardens where it is tight and you have to pick your lines and NOT super steep. In the east this tends to be creek beds and ravines, in the west it is washes. BOTH are very susceptible to rising water and flash flooding with heavy rain so don't be stupid. Rising water is dangerous everywhere!!!!
I will be heading up to the Black Hills in South Dakota this summer so I am very anxious to see how the terrain compares, it looks like it may be a west coast feel as far as traction and remoteness, but also has more trees available. Temperatures will be colder and rain is very likely in June in SD so that may also play into it. Based on the Mt Biking that I have done in the PNW (not jeeping), I do not consider the PNW to be similar terrain to West, but more East Coast like with more mud, ruts, and tree roots. Guess I got to get up there one day and find out if my hypothesis is true.
Maybe I should take it upon myself to travel the Lower 48 and map out the differences in wheeling between all the different areas
Hopefully as I travel and wheel, I will gain more experience and come back and edit this post to add more.
The below is just capturing my thoughts after the AZ trip and something that I can come back to the next time I am planning a big trip and not really looking for debate, but if you have anything that you want to add, please comment.
I have wheeled in Moab several times and now in Arizona. I have also wheeled in OK, AR, MO, TN, AL, WV, KY, and PA. By far my favorite wheeling was in Clayton OK in October during a very dry season where there was traction galore and the terrain was non-stop rock gardens. Hot Springs in AR and SMORR in MO are kind of similar (terrain and traction wise) where the rocks don't have much traction when dry and when they get wet or get some mud on them they become like ice. TN and KY has more mud, tree roots, and rutted trails and trails are STEEP! Once you get to the rocks, they have little traction. AL has much more clay and mud to deal with but not as steep as TN and KY, if the rocks are dry they actually tend to have a little traction, but they are never dry. WV was weird in that some of the rocks have great natural traction and some had none, also, the soil between the rocks is very loose and not clay (more like topsoil) so if you spin your tires between rocks you sink very fast and thus you loose clearance that you just had very quickly. The wheeling I did in PA was when I was much, much, younger and I really don't remember!
Everyone always asks west coast vs east coast what is the difference. I am not talking about "builds" for west coast vs east coast; I am strictly talking about the area/terrain/external factors.
So far what I have discovered:
1. Better natural traction out west. I am not just talking "Moab" traction, just traction in general.
2. Less trees (if any) to hook to as winch points out west, winch points aren't always available out west so you need to look before attempting an obstacle to be sure if you get in trouble you can get yourself out. You also need to have a strap that will wrap around rocks and possibly even a winch line extension.
3. Actual trails tend to be much farther from the truck/trailer out west so you need;
3a. Rig that is built to travel wash boarded, baby headed, roads at decent speed.
3b. Carry parts/tools in the jeep because you can't rely on the parts you left in the truck/trailer.
4. Trail availability (there is so much public land and available trails out west) which circles back to item 3.
5. Temperature swings from morning, afternoon, night, and the sun intensity is much more in the west. I think the sun intensity is mostly due to the fact that there is no trees and you are in the sun the whole time.
6. Probably applies everywhere, but due to the mud and the rock not having natural traction it definitely plays a bigger role in the East - Rain can change a trail very, very, quickly. This can be rain at the time you are actually on the trail and it can also be rain in the days leading up to the trip. I have wheeled the same park in wet conditions and dry conditions and they are totally different, I have wheeled the same trail in the morning and night (after rain) and they are totally different. I have been on a trail when it started raining and the trail went from crawling fun to rock bouncer and even winch pull after winch pull. TN, AL, KY parks are much better in late summer/early fall when it is dry, not saying they are not fun in the winter/spring, but you will have much more fun when it is dry. Same applies to AR, MO, and OK but due to more rock (less mud) it is not as prevalent. This difference when wet also plays a big role in the time associated with completing a trail. I have done trails at windrock when wet that took hours to complete and when they were dry took minutes (not exaggerating).
7. My favorite trails are rock gardens where it is tight and you have to pick your lines and NOT super steep. In the east this tends to be creek beds and ravines, in the west it is washes. BOTH are very susceptible to rising water and flash flooding with heavy rain so don't be stupid. Rising water is dangerous everywhere!!!!
I will be heading up to the Black Hills in South Dakota this summer so I am very anxious to see how the terrain compares, it looks like it may be a west coast feel as far as traction and remoteness, but also has more trees available. Temperatures will be colder and rain is very likely in June in SD so that may also play into it. Based on the Mt Biking that I have done in the PNW (not jeeping), I do not consider the PNW to be similar terrain to West, but more East Coast like with more mud, ruts, and tree roots. Guess I got to get up there one day and find out if my hypothesis is true.
Maybe I should take it upon myself to travel the Lower 48 and map out the differences in wheeling between all the different areas
Hopefully as I travel and wheel, I will gain more experience and come back and edit this post to add more.
RCV sent me an email last night that they shipped out a rebuild kit.
The below is just capturing my thoughts after the AZ trip and something that I can come back to the next time I am planning a big trip and not really looking for debate, but if you have anything that you want to add, please comment.
I have wheeled in Moab several times and now in Arizona. I have also wheeled in OK, AR, MO, TN, AL, WV, KY, and PA. By far my favorite wheeling was in Clayton OK in October during a very dry season where there was traction galore and the terrain was non-stop rock gardens. Hot Springs in AR and SMORR in MO are kind of similar (terrain and traction wise) where the rocks don't have much traction when dry and when they get wet or get some mud on them they become like ice. TN and KY has more mud, tree roots, and rutted trails and trails are STEEP! Once you get to the rocks, they have little traction. AL has much more clay and mud to deal with but not as steep as TN and KY, if the rocks are dry they actually tend to have a little traction, but they are never dry. WV was weird in that some of the rocks have great natural traction and some had none, also, the soil between the rocks is very loose and not clay (more like topsoil) so if you spin your tires between rocks you sink very fast and thus you loose clearance that you just had very quickly. The wheeling I did in PA was when I was much, much, younger and I really don't remember!
Everyone always asks west coast vs east coast what is the difference. I am not talking about "builds" for west coast vs east coast; I am strictly talking about the area/terrain/external factors.
So far what I have discovered:
1. Better natural traction out west. I am not just talking "Moab" traction, just traction in general.
2. Less trees (if any) to hook to as winch points out west, winch points aren't always available out west so you need to look before attempting an obstacle to be sure if you get in trouble you can get yourself out. You also need to have a strap that will wrap around rocks and possibly even a winch line extension.
3. Actual trails tend to be much farther from the truck/trailer out west so you need;
3a. Rig that is built to travel wash boarded, baby headed, roads at decent speed.
3b. Carry parts/tools in the jeep because you can't rely on the parts you left in the truck/trailer.
4. Trail availability (there is so much public land and available trails out west) which circles back to item 3.
5. Temperature swings from morning, afternoon, night, and the sun intensity is much more in the west. I think the sun intensity is mostly due to the fact that there is no trees and you are in the sun the whole time.
6. Probably applies everywhere, but due to the mud and the rock not having natural traction it definitely plays a bigger role in the East - Rain can change a trail very, very, quickly. This can be rain at the time you are actually on the trail and it can also be rain in the days leading up to the trip. I have wheeled the same park in wet conditions and dry conditions and they are totally different, I have wheeled the same trail in the morning and night (after rain) and they are totally different. I have been on a trail when it started raining and the trail went from crawling fun to rock bouncer and even winch pull after winch pull. TN, AL, KY parks are much better in late summer/early fall when it is dry, not saying they are not fun in the winter/spring, but you will have much more fun when it is dry. Same applies to AR, MO, and OK but due to more rock (less mud) it is not as prevalent. This difference when wet also plays a big role in the time associated with completing a trail. I have done trails at windrock when wet that took hours to complete and when they were dry took minutes (not exaggerating).
7. My favorite trails are rock gardens where it is tight and you have to pick your lines and NOT super steep. In the east this tends to be creek beds and ravines, in the west it is washes. BOTH are very susceptible to rising water and flash flooding with heavy rain so don't be stupid. Rising water is dangerous everywhere!!!!
I will be heading up to the Black Hills in South Dakota this summer so I am very anxious to see how the terrain compares, it looks like it may be a west coast feel as far as traction and remoteness, but also has more trees available. Temperatures will be colder and rain is very likely in June in SD so that may also play into it. Based on the Mt Biking that I have done in the PNW (not jeeping), I do not consider the PNW to be similar terrain to West, but more East Coast like with more mud, ruts, and tree roots. Guess I got to get up there one day and find out if my hypothesis is true.
Maybe I should take it upon myself to travel the Lower 48 and map out the differences in wheeling between all the different areas
Hopefully as I travel and wheel, I will gain more experience and come back and edit this post to add more.
You've got a lot more recent experience with wheeling different areas than I do but I can agree with a lot of what you said. When I was stationed in MD the wheeling I did there was totally different than in Moab or the PNW. I tend to carry a lot of CRAP with me when running trails so I can make repairs if needed. And still need to work on my new packing list of what I will carry now.
I'm jealous that you got to enjoy AZ and are going to SD this year. I have wanted to do the Dakota Territory Challenge that is at the end of Aug early Sept.
I'm looking forward to when I can finally get out east and get to see how your trails compare to the PNW. Hopefully at some point you can come up here and visit and see what our trials are like too.
Glad to hear RCV is covering your parts. I'm curious to see how they will hold up with my HP44 & 38" tires.
RCV sent me an email last night that they shipped out a rebuild kit.
The below is just capturing my thoughts after the AZ trip and something that I can come back to the next time I am planning a big trip and not really looking for debate, but if you have anything that you want to add, please comment.
I have wheeled in Moab several times and now in Arizona. I have also wheeled in OK, AR, MO, TN, AL, WV, KY, and PA. By far my favorite wheeling was in Clayton OK in October during a very dry season where there was traction galore and the terrain was non-stop rock gardens. Hot Springs in AR and SMORR in MO are kind of similar (terrain and traction wise) where the rocks don't have much traction when dry and when they get wet or get some mud on them they become like ice. TN and KY has more mud, tree roots, and rutted trails and trails are STEEP! Once you get to the rocks, they have little traction. AL has much more clay and mud to deal with but not as steep as TN and KY, if the rocks are dry they actually tend to have a little traction, but they are never dry. WV was weird in that some of the rocks have great natural traction and some had none, also, the soil between the rocks is very loose and not clay (more like topsoil) so if you spin your tires between rocks you sink very fast and thus you loose clearance that you just had very quickly. The wheeling I did in PA was when I was much, much, younger and I really don't remember!
Everyone always asks west coast vs east coast what is the difference. I am not talking about "builds" for west coast vs east coast; I am strictly talking about the area/terrain/external factors.
So far what I have discovered:
1. Better natural traction out west. I am not just talking "Moab" traction, just traction in general.
2. Less trees (if any) to hook to as winch points out west, winch points aren't always available out west so you need to look before attempting an obstacle to be sure if you get in trouble you can get yourself out. You also need to have a strap that will wrap around rocks and possibly even a winch line extension.
3. Actual trails tend to be much farther from the truck/trailer out west so you need;
3a. Rig that is built to travel wash boarded, baby headed, roads at decent speed.
3b. Carry parts/tools in the jeep because you can't rely on the parts you left in the truck/trailer.
4. Trail availability (there is so much public land and available trails out west) which circles back to item 3.
5. Temperature swings from morning, afternoon, night, and the sun intensity is much more in the west. I think the sun intensity is mostly due to the fact that there is no trees and you are in the sun the whole time.
6. Probably applies everywhere, but due to the mud and the rock not having natural traction it definitely plays a bigger role in the East - Rain can change a trail very, very, quickly. This can be rain at the time you are actually on the trail and it can also be rain in the days leading up to the trip. I have wheeled the same park in wet conditions and dry conditions and they are totally different, I have wheeled the same trail in the morning and night (after rain) and they are totally different. I have been on a trail when it started raining and the trail went from crawling fun to rock bouncer and even winch pull after winch pull. TN, AL, KY parks are much better in late summer/early fall when it is dry, not saying they are not fun in the winter/spring, but you will have much more fun when it is dry. Same applies to AR, MO, and OK but due to more rock (less mud) it is not as prevalent. This difference when wet also plays a big role in the time associated with completing a trail. I have done trails at windrock when wet that took hours to complete and when they were dry took minutes (not exaggerating).
7. My favorite trails are rock gardens where it is tight and you have to pick your lines and NOT super steep. In the east this tends to be creek beds and ravines, in the west it is washes. BOTH are very susceptible to rising water and flash flooding with heavy rain so don't be stupid. Rising water is dangerous everywhere!!!!
I will be heading up to the Black Hills in South Dakota this summer so I am very anxious to see how the terrain compares, it looks like it may be a west coast feel as far as traction and remoteness, but also has more trees available. Temperatures will be colder and rain is very likely in June in SD so that may also play into it. Based on the Mt Biking that I have done in the PNW (not jeeping), I do not consider the PNW to be similar terrain to West, but more East Coast like with more mud, ruts, and tree roots. Guess I got to get up there one day and find out if my hypothesis is true.
Maybe I should take it upon myself to travel the Lower 48 and map out the differences in wheeling between all the different areas
Hopefully as I travel and wheel, I will gain more experience and come back and edit this post to add more.
Insightful write-up, Victor. Thanks for taking the time.
I’m up to my ears in RCV shafts this morning as well..
Well this year is about Bucket List trips and we just completed one of them. For Christian's spring break we headed to Arizona to do some wheeling. Originally it was just going to be me and Christian but Tonya decided to take the week off and go with us which made it even better. This may be the last trip that I actually needed the rear seat, time will tell. A friend of mine (Scott) just moved to Arizona last december and this was perfect opportunity to head out and visit with him and also to explore the trails in the area, in addition, I pinged Garrett to see if he would be able to meet up while I was out there and he was so a great opportunity to meet another like minded wheeler!
I actually did a lot of work on the jeep in prep for this trip (changed ball joints, front unit bearings, greased all johnny joints, changed all fluids, etc....) but what I was really excited for was that I just bought a set of 37" BFG Reds and they were waiting for me in Arizona (bought them from a guy in Texas but Scott happened to be an hour away from the guy in Texas for a meeting so he grabbed them and took them back to Arizona). This excitement led to me installing those tires as soon as I got to Arizona and may have led to some of my problems which followed
Memphis to Apache Juntion AZ is a two day drive (13 hrs first day and 8 hrs second day). On the drive out we had a very strong head wind out of the west across most of OK and TX which resulted in about 8.3 MPG avg, but when we hit NM the winds got crazy!! One time a wind gust hit me so hard that the truck felt like it completely stopped for a second, I actually thought that the engine quit or that Aliens shot us with a tracker beam and we were about to be probed. We stayed the night in Santa Rosa, NM and on Sunday morning on the local ABQ news they were reporting that across NM there was going to be 30-40MPH sustained winds and gusts up to 75mph. On Sunday, my fuel avg was 6.9 mpg avg and I ran mostly 60-65mph (speed limit is 75mph) and the truck was in 4th gear most of the time to just maintain that 65mph. I watched one 18 wheeler trailer get blown across two lanes and luckily did not roll. It was crazy!!
There was one hint of good luck during this beginning phase where I actually ran out of gas in the truck, but I ran out just as I entered the exit ramp and I was able to maintain momentum and coast all the way to the gas pump, I thought this is going to be a great trip!
On Sunday, the closer we got to Apache Junction, the more and more SxS and Jeeps that I saw and I was getting excited. We got to the VRBO around 5pm and I quickly unpacked and headed over to visit with my friend Scott. We talked about the wheeling we were going to do that week, he talked about his new job at the RV park, his new girlfriend Bri, etc…. It was great to get caught up. But it was also great to get my tires and I ran back to the VRBO and installed them that night.
Monday Day 1 - Elvis, Axle Alley, Jack Handle, Nice Little Obstacle (on OnX maps), Box Canyon
Scott and I met in the morning in Florence and headed out. First trail was Elvis trail since we are from Memphis. Well I was pretty let down with Elvis trail and it was pretty boring with no real obstacles at all? Next Trail was Axle Alley and things got real fun, real fast, this was a great trail with some great rocks, but there was one waterfall that neither Scott nor I could make (straight up and at least 11 ft). This is also where we learned that our 6' tree savers were useless in Arizona because there are no trees to winch off, just large rocks, luckily I had a 20' strap that were able to use to wrap a boulder and winch Scott up the waterfall and then I hooked on to him to winch up the waterfall. There were several waterfalls and obstacles after the big waterfall that I did not think I would make, but I made them with relative ease (traction, wow, I love traction). From here we headed over and did Jack Handle which was pretty fun but very short. I then started looking at OnX and discovered a waypoint called Nice Little Obstacle, and I also at this time learned how to read a map and discovered that we didn't actually do Elvis trail on the way out but some "Sand" road, so plan was formulated to hit the "Nice Little Obstacle" and the top part of Elvis trail where the "hard" part was. Nice Little Obstacle had three lines, and I tried the hard line at first and I fell into the crack. I crunched the rear corner pretty darn good. I tried to take the left line and fell into a hole which put me hard against the wall on the left. Had to hook up Scott’s winch to pull me off the wall so I could back out. Luckily, the tire didn’t get a hole or tear in side wall but the rear corner got really, really crunched. The top part of Elvis trail was fun and we hit every obstacle, may have even made up some obstacles. We then decided to take a scenic way back to truck and go through Box Canyon, which was really fun and great to see.
Mondays issues/inspection results: Had an issue with the front axle where diff fluid was leaking from pinion around the pinion nut. It wasn’t leaking bad enough to ever have to add fluid, but since it was leaking onto the rotating yoke, it was throwing the fluid everywhere and I could smell it during the day. After wheeling all day, I pulled the driveshaft and the pinion nut was loose. I removed the nut, cleaned up the threads, applied loctite and reinstalled the nut using the Milwaukee ⅜” impact. The pinion seemed to be good, no bearing play, etc… and I never had another issue with it.
Tuesday Day 2 - Woodpecker, Highway 2 Hell, LOD
Scott and I met up with Garrett at parking area and headed out on Cottonwood. We hit woodpecker which had a few good obstacles and then we got to Highway 2 Hell. We payed our respect to the totem pole of parts and headed for the big v notch on Highway 2 Hell. All three of us made it through the Vnotch and were making good time on H2H. This is ultimately what got me, making good time
Wed Day 3 - Plan was Terminator, Predator, Judgment Day; however, it was now recover my jeep from LOD day.
Scott and I left Apache Junction at 10am after I gathered all the parts that I would need to replace the studs and fix what was damaged. The fix went really smoothly and I got to finish LOD under my own power and on my own wheels. It was actually a fun day out on the trail and Tonya and Christian got a day of rest and went and saw Dune 2 while I was out on the trail. Again, overall a good day on the trail! Left apache junction at 10am and I was showered and picked up Tonya and Christian at the movie theater at 4:30pm, so we made some time.
Thurs Day 4 - No Limits
Scott ended up having to work and could not join us, so it was just Garrett and myself (Mike, Beestinger, did try to join us but had some issues at the trailhead with his tires and decided to not go). We headed out access road and got to the trailhead. I very quickly realized that this was going to be my favorite trail of the week, it was non-stop boulders to pick your way through, my kind of trail. Unfortunately, about 1/8 of the way through the trail on maybe the 4th or 5th obstacle and probably the 2nd biggest obstacle of the day (gatekeeper being 1) something popped in my front axle and I had no power to my drivers side front wheel, just a lot of clicking and popping. It also started to downpour rain and also hail at this time. Yes, rain and hail in the desert! I had parts back in my truck, but my truck was like an hour away and I didn't want for Christian and Tonya to have to sit there for hours (like they did on Tuesday at LOD) waiting for me to fix my jeep, especially since now they would be sitting in rain. So I convinced Garrett that it would be best to turn around and exit the trail the way we came in. We had some minor issues getting back down, but nothing major and I think it was the right decision. Unfortunately, I didn't get to finish No Limits and I really want to go back and do it again!!
Friday Day 5 was a planned off day and Christian and I did some Mt Biking at a local trail system called Hawes, it was a lot of fun!!
Overall a great trip and I got to see Arizona trails, check off a bucket list item, met some great people, visited with old friends, and met new friends. I also got to spend the week with my wife and my youngest son which was awesome.
As normal, I did not get a lot of pictures. But I did have the go pro running part of the time and put together a video. If i get any other pictures in the future, I will post them up.
Video of some of the wheeling:
Video of Hawes Mt Bike:
Sorry for your mechanical troubles Victor but nice driving and reading of the trail, as always. You and Christian looked like you were having a good time on the MTBs, too. Is that the same hardtail you had in Moab last year? I ask because you said you had been through a few frames. Fun videos
OP
Sorry for your mechanical troubles Victor but nice driving and reading of the trail, as always. You and Christian looked like you were having a good time on the MTBs, too. Is that the same hardtail you had in Moab last year? I ask because you said you had been through a few frames. Fun videos
Yep, still running the same hardtail.
If we ride together again, I'll bring a hardtail. I rebuilt an old favorite over the winter and I'm just loving it.
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How long has your friend had the jeep in front of you at the beginning of your video. I think I've wheeled with that jeep a couple of years ago at Coalmont but I think the guy that owned it was looking to sell it right after that trip and he hadn't owned it very long.
OP
That’s it. I think it was sold to the guy that drove it that trip but a couple guys from Hooker Motorsport were there. I don’t think Brent was one of them. I do remember one of them driving a white 4 door JK
OP
Yeah, I think Brent sold it to a guy named Minnow and then Scott bought it from Minnow. The only reason I remember that name "Minnow" is because it was unique