Updating (backdating?) the TJ grille

[jscherb]

I then prepped that mold:

Shot it with gelcoat:

And laid up fiberglass:

And the result was a slotless grille:

BTW this slotless grille could be used as a starting point to make any other type of custom grille, so I'll save the slotless grille mold in case I ever want to make a different custom grille.

In this photo I've posed the slots on top of the slotless grille.

The next step is to splice the slots into the slotless grille.

 

[jscherb]

To start splicing the slots into the slotless grille, I first epoxied them all together.

I then cut out the center of the slotless grille and epoxied the seven slot assembly in place:

I have to apologize that I forgot to take photos of the next step, which is to make curves in the outer slots to match the curves of the headlight buckets. You can see in the photo above that there are gaps in the sides of the slots at the headlight buckets; what I did was cut curved pieces of pine and epoxied them in place, followed by bodywork and sanding to smooth them to match the curve exactly and blend them into the surrounding area. Here's an intermediate result after a coat of white rattle can paint. I often apply paint to intermediate steps because it helps see imperfections.

Compared to a factory grille:

Final bodywork and smoothing is necessary before this is good enough to make a mold from.

 

[jscherb]

Once the surface was smooth and uniform, I shot it with high-build primer. High-build applies in a layer that's thick enough to hide small sanding scratches and it's sandable, done with fine sandpaper to perfect the surface.

Once satisfied with the surface, I shot it with 2k (catalyzed) clear. You've already seen these photos.

Now I've got a mold master that's a perfect replica of the part I want to make. The next step is to make a final mold.

 

[jscherb]

The master gets prepped with wax and PVA mold release, shot with gelcoat and fiberglass is laid up on it. You seen all those processes already so I won't repeat them, here's the master after fiberglass layup. It's orange because in this case I used "tooling gelcoat", which is a more resilient type of gelcoat that stands up to repeated uses of the mold better than ordinary gelcoat and it's orange so that when you spray gelcoat in the mold to make the final part the contrast of the gelcoat for the part contrasts with the orange so you can make sure you get an even coat of gelcoat.

After curing overnight, the mold is popped off the master and looks like this immediately after removal from the master.

The sharp edges need to be trimmed and the mold release needs to be washed off. Once that's done and it's prepped for making apart, it looks like this (another photo you've seen before).

Now you're caught up. If anything I posted isn't clear or you want more explanation of any step, please don't hesitate to ask, I'm happy to provide as much info as you want.

 

[il buono]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the steps you have done. This is amazing work

 

[NDSpeed]

Or maybe the new grille would look better with MB-style flat fenders?

View attachment 140246

that was the look I wanted to go to. Flat fenders with the turn signals mounted under the headlights of my TJ grill

 

[jscherb]

Molding a grille... once the mold is made and prepped for use, it's pretty simple to make a grille in the mold. The first step is to shoot gelcoat on the mold surface, this forms the smooth exterior surface of the part. I used white gelcoat for the grille that's being molded in this photo:

Once the gelcoat has cured to the appropriate point, the fiberglass layup is done.

The white gelcoat can still be seen in the slots, that's because I didn't put fiberglass there. Since the slots will be cut open after the grille comes out of the mold, there's no point in wasting fiberglass or going to the extra work of laying fiberglass in areas that will be cut out. An exception to this is the headlight holes, since that area of the grille is basically flat, it's easier to just lay fiberglass over that area.

It takes less than $25 in fiberglass materials to mold each grille.

 

[kmas0n]

This is fascinating!

 

[Goatman]

And you enjoy this? I'll never understand body men. While this thread is very interesting to read, the thought of all the hours and hours of prep work! How many hours did it take to get to a final mold? It has to be weeks, yea?
God bless you guys that can do all this stuff. I lack any and I mean any artistic ability to do that kind of work. Bolts and bearing I like. Paint I can't do. Would you ever consider selling these works of art? I think your shop would explode with business in short order. Just getting a CJ front end on a TJ would keep you in business for years.

 

[Vinman]

It takes less than $25 in fiberglass materials to mold each grille.

Ok, I’ll give you fifty bucks for a finished grill, that way you’re doubling your money


Seriously, that is the best looking TJ grill I have seen, what do you think the selling price will be?

 

[jscherb]

And you enjoy this? I'll never understand body men. While this thread is very interesting to read, the thought of all the hours and hours of prep work! How many hours did it take to get to a final mold? It has to be weeks, yea?
God bless you guys that can do all this stuff. I lack any and I mean any artistic ability to do that kind of work. Bolts and bearing I like. Paint I can't do. Would you ever consider selling these works of art? I think your shop would explode with business in short order. Just getting a CJ front end on a TJ would keep you in business for years.

Actually no I don't enjoy fiberglass work. I enjoy designing these things and I enjoy seeing the finished result but to me the fiberglass phase of the project is a necessary evil to get to the end result. It is always exciting to pop the first part out of a new mold and see how good it looks though. Speaking of that, stay tuned, I'll post some photos of the first grille out of this mold later today.

No I wouldn't consider selling any of these, I'm not in business and don't want to be - that would take all the fun out of it for me. I sometimes mold a few extra copies of things for friends (no, I don't ask them for payment).

If someone/some company wanted to bring this grille to market I'd be happy to discuss it with them, a number of my designs have been picked up by companies and are on the market (LJ/TJ Safari Cab hardtop, Exogate, Jeep-tub trailer kit...) so that could happen with this grille if someone wanted to do it.

BTW I do have all the molds for the CJ Grille Kit so that could be a product too if some company wanted it. I have pretty much all the molds I've ever made in case I ever need to make more parts.

 

[jscherb]

Ok, I’ll give you fifty bucks for a finished grill, that way you’re doubling your money

For a fiberglass shop that buys materials in wholesale quantity the materials cost would be much less, under $25 is what it costs me to buy materials retail. Yes maybe doubling my cash outlay but that wouldn't compensate me for the very unenjoyable fiberglass work .

Seriously, that is the best looking TJ grill I have seen, what do you think the selling price will be?

Thank you very much. As I've said before, I don't sell anything - so I can't predict a selling price. Selling price would depend not only on materials costs, for a company it would have to include labor, overhead costs, profit margin, etc. so who knows. Being just an overlay for the factory grille it's a very simple part to make (mold it, trim it, ship it) so I wouldn't think a production version would be too expensive.

 

[bluescapegoat]

Impressive work, I think that's going to look great. I've got a question for you though, you keep referring to it as an overlay. I don't see how it could just lay over top of the already existent grill given the bigger cutouts, so I'm guessing you have to cut the front of the old grill out and rivet the fiberglass face on? Does that effect the structural rigidity given the grill bridges the fenders to the frame?

 

[Vinman]

For a fiberglass shop that buys materials in wholesale quantity the materials cost would be much less, under $25 is what it costs me to buy materials retail. Yes maybe doubling my cash outlay but that wouldn't compensate me for the very unenjoyable fiberglass work .

my reply was a straight up joke, I know there’s way, way more involved than the actual cost of materials. The many hours spent making the mold, gow many pieces can be made per mold, labour to actually make the pieces etc. I’d be impressed if the material cost was more than 10 percent of the cost

 

[jscherb]

Impressive work, I think that's going to look great. I've got a question for you though, you keep referring to it as an overlay. I don't see how it could just lay over top of the already existent grill given the bigger cutouts, so I'm guessing you have to cut the front of the old grill out and rivet the fiberglass face on? Does that effect the structural rigidity given the grill bridges the fenders to the frame?

Thank you.

Since the new slots don't line up with the old ones, yes the old ones have to be cut out of the factory grille. That's a simple operation done with a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade, it's not hard to do. Once that's done and the overlay is fitted, the overlay gets bonded on to the factory grille shell with automotive urethane adhesive (or epoxy). It'll be plenty strong enough once everything is bonded together.

Also if the overlay is made to mount turn signals (as is the one I posted photos of in the molding process), clearance holes need to be cut in the factory grille face for those, that's easy to do with a hole saw.

 

[jscherb]

my reply was a straight up joke, I know there’s way, way more involved than the actual cost of materials. The many hours spent making the mold, gow many pieces can be made per mold, labour to actually make the pieces etc. I’d be impressed if the material cost was more than 10 percent of the cost

Well if the material cost for a professional fiberglass shop is 10% of the retail price, that makes this a $125-$150 product . But this is all speculation because at this point there are no plans for this TJ grille to be a production product, I'm just making this one for myself.

BTW instead of fiberglass another way to produce it would be to thermoform it in plastic. The JL-style grille I did last year for the JK has been picked up by a company and that's how they're planning to produce it. Material cost is about the same for a part like this but the mold cost and labor cost is lower.

This is a preproduction JL-style grille for the JK that I received recently from the company that's doing it:

This is my homemade fiberglass one, the one above could be painted the same way:

 

[Fixer6]

Absolutely amazing skills! Thank you for sharing! Beautiful.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Well if the material cost for a professional fiberglass shop is 10% of the retail price, that makes this a $125-$150 product . But this is all speculation because at this point there are no plans for this TJ grille to be a production product, I'm just making this one for myself.

BTW instead of fiberglass another way to produce it would be to thermoform it in plastic. The JL-style grille I did last year for the JK has been picked up by a company and that's how they're planning to produce it. Material cost is about the same for a part like this but the mold cost and labor cost is lower.

This is a preproduction JL-style grille for the JK that I received recently from the company that's doing it:

View attachment 140629

This is my homemade fiberglass one, the one above could be painted the same way:

View attachment 140630

I love that they flush mounted the blinkers. Looks close to OEM. Great work and congrats on passing it on for consumers to enjoy.

 

[jscherb]

I love that they flush mounted the blinkers. Looks close to OEM. Great work and congrats on passing it on for consumers to enjoy.

I made one for my son's JK 2dr and did recessed turn signals for that one. I molded his in black fiberglass. Since this photo was taken he's swapped the yellow turn signals for clear ones.

PS: Please forgive me for posting JK photos in a TJ forum but they make points that apply to this TJ grille project. .

 

[jscherb]

Absolutely amazing skills! Thank you for sharing! Beautiful.

Thank you. It's not as had as you think though, I could teach anyone with reasonable DIY skills to do stuff like this.