Metalcloak fender test on stock suspension with 33s

[deadbeat son]

*sigh*

In my test I tried to be as fair and open as possible, with full disclosure of any alterations to the vehicle or issues. I wanted to find out for myself the truth about these fenders. I posted several times my own disclaimer that a lifted 33's would be more capable, that this is not an ultimate way to build for 33's, or the best or only way to do it. I also posted several times that 33's are realistically the largest you will fit on a stock TJ with these fenders, regardless of MC's claims, and the clearances will diminish with larger tires. I simply showed that it's a way to fit 33's on a stock TJ without having a degree in trig. How many times has there been a thread titled "Can I fit 33's on my stock TJ?" and a plethora of answers stating you need X lift. Well with X lift comes YZQK issues you need to resolve. Someone less experienced might figure it all out, or create a basket case jeep that never gets put together right or is an unstable hazzard on the road. If there is an alternative way to accomplish the same goal, namely fitting 33's on a stock TJ without messing with the suspension or steering, or some combination of fenders and springs, I'd want to know about it so I could make an informed decision about what's best for me and my requirements. That's the goal of the OP.

As far as comments about the appearance of the fenders, go nuts ye faceless usernames!
I care more about what my goldfish think of them.

I got the following takeaway from your posts. Please correct me if I got anything wrong.

If someone's goal is to run a 33x12.5 tire on stock suspension, they can likely do so with a combination of the MC fenders and approximately 1" of body lift (give or take 0.25").

Based on your observations, do you expect any of the results would change if fitting a 33x10.5 tire instead of a 12.5? For example, may a 33x10.5 potentially fit with the MC fenders and no BL? Or vice versa, may it potentially fit with the BL and stock fenders?

 

[GASnBRASS]

I got the following takeaway from your posts. Please correct me if I got anything wrong.

If someone's goal is to run a 33x12.5 tire on stock suspension, they can likely do so with a combination of the MC fenders and approximately 1" of body lift (give or take 0.25").

Based on your observations, do you expect any of the results would change if fitting a 33x10.5 tire instead of a 12.5? For example, may a 33x10.5 potentially fit with the MC fenders and no BL? Or vice versa, may it potentially fit with the BL and stock fenders?

Yes, MC fenders and at least a 1/2" BL (1" would be better) with stock suspension will fit a 33" tire.

You will still need MC fenders and a BL because the vertical height of a 33x10.5 is no different than a 33x12.5 tire. But a 10.5 might have less contact at the back of the wheel well during full flex/full steering lock because the skinnier tire can be tucked in closer to the hub, which means the outer edge of the tread will be further away from the angled back edge of the fender. You could also run a smaller 4" flare as well. I do not see a 33x10.5 working at all with stock fenders and stock suspension, even with a 1" BL, the top of the tire will still hit the fender at full flex.

 

[Wildman]

Rim backspacing will also factor into how the tire fits and if you have any contact.

I forgot to ask yesterday.
Why the 1/2" BL instead of a 1" or 1.25" BL? And I'm gunna guess it's a home made BL?

 

[deadbeat son]

Yes, MC fenders and at least a 1/2" BL (1" would be better) with stock suspension will fit a 33" tire.

You will still need MC fenders and a BL because the vertical height of a 33x10.5 is no different than a 33x12.5 tire. But a 10.5 might have less contact at the back of the wheel well during full flex/full steering lock because the skinnier tire can be tucked in closer to the hub, which means the outer edge of the tread will be further away from the angled back edge of the fender. You could also run a smaller 4" flare as well. I do not see a 33x10.5 working at all with stock fenders and stock suspension, even with a 1" BL, the top of the tire will still hit the fender at full flex.

Thanks for the additional insight. I was curious about where the contact points were on the tire and body, and if those contact points may have been eliminated or changed due to a narrower tire. It sounds like the tire widths would not be a significant enough difference to change the points of interference.

 

[GASnBRASS]

Thanks for the additional insight. I was curious about where the contact points were on the tire and body, and if those contact points may have been eliminated or changed due to a narrower tire. It sounds like the tire widths would not be a significant enough difference to change the points of interference.

Picture 7 of the OP, with the tire fully stuffed and turning hard left there is some rubbing at the back of the fender. I think a spring spacer or 1" H&R springs with a full 1" BL would help mitigate that rub. Of course a rim with less BS and a skinnier tire would do even better in that situation.

FYI, with the tire fully stuffed and cranked hard right the inner sidewall will rub on the corner of the spring tower, and there is no good way to eliminate that, even with a lift. It's just something to keep in mind that when a tire is fully stuffed the steering can't be cranked hard over either direction. You still have quite a bit of steering room, but just don't crank it to the steering stops when fully flexed.

 

[GASnBRASS]

Rim backspacing will also factor into how the tire fits and if you have any contact.

I forgot to ask yesterday.
Why the 1/2" BL instead of a 1" or 1.25" BL? And I'm gunna guess it's a home made BL?

I have about 1/2" clearance between the tire and fender with a 3/4" BL, so you could probably squeak by with a 1/2" BL, but really a 1" BL would be better and give more breathing room just in case.

I am using Rokmen 1/2" aluminum BL pucks. I replaced both torque boxes that contain the 6 large body mounts and the rear boxed cross member under the tailgate that has the 2 smaller rear corner mounts. The only mounts on the tub I didn't replace were the two that sit above the rear shocks, and I had to shim those with an extra 1/4" spacer on top of the Rokmen pucks to match the rest of the mounts. That's when I found out the replacement stampings I used are 1/4" taller than the originals. In essence the tub now sits a total of 3/4" higher off the frame, hence a 3/4" BL. Wasn't planned that way, but that's what I ended up with.

 

[Wildman]

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Ericshere03]

The tire when straight hits the stock fender with 3/4" of bump stop gap. Keep in mind that without the 3/4" body lift the bump stop gap would be at least an inch or more.

View attachment 289229

View attachment 289231

When turning to the left the tire drops slightly due to the caster angle but still contacts the rear of the wheel well before the steer stop is reached. To turn to the right the axle must be lowered 3/4" to clear the fender lip, so the bump stop gap is now 1.5".

View attachment 289233

View attachment 289234

And as a bonus, here is the rear 33" tire on a stock axle, arms, and suspension compressed to the bump stop with 1/2" clearance all around the wheel well.


View attachment 289243

This is all you needed to post … this alone will shutdown 58.42% of all the threads on every Jeep forum. As the all start with “Can I fix these tires with no lift” …

bottom line, you need 1.5” bumpstop in front and .25” bumpstop rear … MINIMUM to run 33. Any less and you face guaranteed metal contact.

Add a commonly recommended 1” body lift and your at .5” bumpstop front and nothing in the rear.

I’d add .5 for safety margin, maybe more once you add fender flares to the mix.

I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR SHOCKS.

I think you bratty little kids can do basic elementary school math for all the other beautiful combinations.

Thanks for your hard work and sharing your data…

PS: I prefer stock fenders

 

[Apparition]

This is all you needed to post … this alone will shutdown 58.42% of all the threads on every Jeep forum. As the all start with “Can I fix these tires with no lift” …

bottom line, you need 1.5” bumpstop in front and .25” bumpstop rear … MINIMUM to run 33. Any less and you face guaranteed metal contact.

Add a commonly recommended 1” body lift and your at .5” bumpstop front and nothing in the rear.

I’d add .5 for safety margin, maybe more once you add fender flares to the mix.

I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR SHOCKS.

I think you bratty little kids can do basic elementary school math for all the other beautiful combinations.

Thanks for your hard work and sharing your data…

PS: I prefer stock fenders

View attachment 342937

 

[jjvw]

....

I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR SHOCKS.

...

You ought to.

 

[Ericshere03]

You ought to.

Here is where I will argue… once minimum bump is determined, THEN you can spec out a shock. If you need a shock that requires a little more bumpstop, then you add accordingly.

Example, shock shocks are 13.5F and 12.5R (something like that)… every bit of bumpstop added can be added to shock length. If an exhaust shock cannot be found, then compromises must be made to the next closest length.

 

[jjvw]

Here is where I will argue… once minimum bump is determined, THEN you can spec out a shock. If you need a shock that requires a little more bumpstop, then you add accordingly.

Example, shock shocks are 13.5F and 12.5R (something like that)… every bit of bumpstop added can be added to shock length. If an exhaust shock cannot be found, then compromises must be made to the next closest length.

You can do that if you are willing and able to move shock mounts. And even then achieving a 50/50 split does not necessarily mean matching the compressed shock to minimum bump. After that, go back to what I said early in this thread. The more shock travel the axle has, the more the raised tire is going to tip into the frame at full articulation.

You can't not care about shocks.

 

[Mobusaki]

You can do that if you are willing and able to move shock mounts. And even then achieving a 50/50 split does not necessarily mean matching the compressed shock to minimum bump. After that, go back to what I said early in this thread. The more shock travel the axle has, the more the raised tire is going to tip into the frame at full articulation.

You can't not care about shocks.

This is true. Even with 32's (on 265/75r16 on Moab wheels) I rubbed the rear track bar bracket when stuffed on the passenger side once I lowered my shock mounts (8.8, not factory mounts) and reduced bump stop for more up travel. I didn't notice as it was happening, but the paint is worn off and that's the only place without mud/dirt. There's a surprising amount of domino effect with this stuff.