Cut off for well mannered, street-able TJ?

[suicideking]

I have two TJ's: One is stock height on 31" with KYB shocks. It rides decent, but definitely bouncy on the freeway.

My LJ has a Savvy mid arm with outboarded tuned Fox shocks. It rides very nice on the Freeway and street, practically floating. Definitely overkill for a street rig though.

Maybe a Currie short arm, or a suspension that uses johnny joints + tuned shocks. If you don't need a change in height, maybe start with tuned shocks. I had the mid arm for a few years before getting the shocks outboarded. Definitely a noticable difference. Also why many do custom coil overs and have the shocks under the hood and almost touching the top of the hood. Longer is usually better.

 

[Chris]

Setup what you have to function the best it is able to. I can't and won't recommend a specific bolt on shock. There isn't enough difference between them to matter as much as many pretend it does. But sizing them correctly is extremely important. It matters as much as the baseline setup of everything else. Do that, and you are leaps and bounds beyond what most will ever do.

The information is here and widely available.

This is very sound advice.

 

[jjvw]

I would not be surprised if the whole is greater than the sum of the parts

Food for thought. We aren't going to be this good in our TJs, but this is the direction we are pointed...

View: https://youtu.be/Tcxq2pax1p0?is=mXA-OzUciT8sbKQb


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/AJjVtJOACBE?is=Zxu2Wu8HujkeqVlL

 

[reddvltj]

That makes sense. I guess my tire search is now gonna be for 35x11.5/12.5r17, load range c. Then I can start saving for the big brake kit

I don't think you're going to be all that enthusiastic when you see the limited variety of 6 ply (C) rated 35" tires in the 17" wheel size...

 

[Chris]

Had you been properly geared for the tire size and transmission on the very good TJ you had for a short time, would your thoughts be different?

I should have re-geared it (in fact, I forgot that it was geared to 4.88 until today). That might have fixed some of it. Ultimately though I think what I needed in addition was an extra 75-100 hp. Just enough to feel as if I could pass people on the highway without struggling too much.

I know what you guys are talking about when you refer to the TJ handling like a sports car. I experienced it and it was unreal.

There will be those who dismiss this as hyperbole and think that I'm just trying to toot Blaine's horn. To those who feel that way, I would strongly encourage you to find someone who has a properly built TJ with custom tuned outboard shocks. Have them take you for a ride or drive it and you'll come away from it with your mind blown.

Good shocks make all the difference in the world. If you've got money to spend that's the first place I'd put it towards.

To those of us who know, we know. To those who don't know, you have no friggin' clue what you're missing.

 

[jjvw]

I should have re-geared it (in fact, I forgot that it was geared to 4.88 until today). That might have fixed some of it. Ultimately though I think what I needed in addition was an extra 75-100 hp. Just enough to feel as if I could pass people on the highway without struggling too much.

...

I'm cursed with a long memory and I pay attention to things.

The reality is that even if you had that extra 75-100hp, you still would need to regear in order to get the most out of that added HP. Which is why the regear needed to happen when the transmission went in.

Which is also why it is so frustrating when so many argue against regearing deep enough or at all.

 

[Chris]

I'm cursed with a long memory and I pay attention to things.

The reality is that even if you had that extra 75-100hp, you still would need to regear in order to get the most out of that added HP. Which is why the regear needed to happen when the transmission went in.

Which is also why it is so frustrating when so many argue against regearing deep enough or at all.

Yes, I agree.

Had I re-geared it and slapped a supercharger on there it would have had no business being as good as it was. It still blows me away how well that thing drove once Blaine got done with it.

 

[MikeE024]

I don't think you're going to be all that enthusiastic when you see the limited variety of 6 ply (C) rated 35" tires in the 17" wheel size...

Didn’t matter for me since the 17” D rated tires ride way better than the 15” C rated tires did. I wouldn’t go back.

 

[reddvltj]

Didn’t matter for me since the 17” D rated tires ride way better than the 15” C rated tires did. I wouldn’t go back.

D (8ply) rated tires "ride better" than C (6ply)? At what pressure and in what context? I know for a fact that at equal pressure a 33" tire on a 15" rim vs a 17" rim of equal widths the 15" is going to have a "softer" ride over bumps but give up some stability. Same thing with 35" the 17 will have better on-road manners but worse impact transfer into the Jeep.
This is sticking to a specific tire. Changing brands and type of tire opens up a LOT of variables..

 

[mrblaine]

Changing brands and type of tire opens up a LOT of variables..

It opens up so many variables that nothing can be stated generically except they are round, mostly black and we put air in most of them to drive on them.

 

[reddvltj]

It opens up so many variables that nothing can be stated generically except they are round, mostly black and we put air in most of them to drive on them.

Sure does, thanks for spelling out what "a LOT" looks like. Sounds like we are on the same page about how messy the variables get.

 

[MikeE024]

D (8ply) rated tires "ride better" than C (6ply)? At what pressure and in what context? I know for a fact that at equal pressure a 33" tire on a 15" rim vs a 17" rim of equal widths the 15" is going to have a "softer" ride over bumps but give up some stability. Same thing with 35" the 17 will have better on-road manners but worse impact transfer into the Jeep.
This is sticking to a specific tire. Changing brands and type of tire opens up a LOT of variables..

I’m not the first or second person to report on this phenomenon. I run my current tires around 5psi higher on the street than I did the previous set.

Don’t fail to notice what I stated earlier:

“I can't explain it other than to say tire technology has come a long way and results may vary.”

 

[reddvltj]

I’m not the first or second person to report on this phenomenon. I run my current tires around 5psi higher on the street than I did the previous set.

Don’t fail to notice what I stated earlier:

“I can't explain it other than to say tire technology has come a long way and results may vary.”

Somehow I completely missed that specific post... I did go back and find it though..

 

[MikeE024]

We (you and I and others in this discussion) may not have the same definitions of sporty. For me, a proper sports car has quick and composed reactions to both driver and road inputs and, crucially, communicates to the driver what’s happening at the contact patch. Much of that comes from low mass located close to the ground. Engine power, though welcome and fun, actually has little to do with how sporty a vehicle is in my estimation. Some examples of cars I have driven that I consider sporty:
911GT3, C8 Z06; I expect little argument on those.
Mazda Miata; If hp is an important metric, you may disagree.
1985 VW golf; I throw this one in because I owned one for quite a while (base model with manual transmission, manual brakes, manual steering and a whopping 85hp). That car was a riot at 10/10ths which was easily approachable on the street because of it’s very modest limits. It would rotate if you lift the throttle in a turn so you could drift on command using momentum rather than hp. Most importantly to me, putting your hands on the steering wheel was akin to running them along the surface of the pavement, allowing you to walk the car upto and beyond the adhesion limit and easily back again.

My jeep, while very fun in its own way and still improving, will always suffer in a road driving comparison to any of those (not a criticism, its just not a sports car). But maybe I’m not doing it right

The purpose of my statement was to share how well my TJ performs since there were misconceptions on how well a TJ can perform when running 35s.

I also assumed folks understood the purpose (emphasis) of phrases like:

"built like a tank"
"steers like a tractor"
"handles like a sports car"

The validity of my statement doesn't hinge on if my TJ performs to the level of a 911GT3 (track car), C8 Z06 (track car), etc.

The bottom line is that my TJ performs well beyond what most will believe unless they go for a ride.

 

[jjvw]

The purpose of my statement was to share how well my TJ performs since there were misconceptions on how well a TJ can perform when running 33s or 35s.

I also assumed folks understood the purpose (emphasis) of phrases like:

"built like a tank"
"steers like a tractor"
"handles like a sports car"

The validity of my statement doesn't hinge on if my TJ performs to the level of a 911GT3 (track car), C8 Z06 (track car), etc.

The bottom line is that my TJ performs well beyond what most will believe unless they go for a ride.

There is very little nitpicking when people say their Jeep drives like a dump truck. In part, because it is expected and easy to achieve. And these same people say it will never ride like a Cadillac, even though it is also easy to make a jeep ride like a wallowy boat.

 

[MikeE024]

There is very little nitpicking when people say their Jeep drives like a dump truck. In part, because it is expected and easy to achieve. And these same people say it will never ride like a Cadillac, even though it is also easy to make a jeep ride like a wallowy boat.

The Rancho shocks made my TJ ride like a log wagon.

 

[speeding_infraction]

The Rancho shocks made my TJ ride like a log wagon.

That's good to know. Was that the rs5000x?

 

[Unique Username]

That's good to know. Was that the rs5000x?

I put them on my otherwise stock XJ and anytime I hit a bump I feel like I am in an old model T bouncing around uncontrollably. Probably the stiffest shock I have ever ran. And I have run a Bilstien once before

 

[LJ owner]

The Rancho shocks made my TJ ride like a log wagon.

I hated the Rancho shocks I put on my F350 so bad that they were only on it for two weeks. Gave them away. Somehow I got talked into Ranchos at the 4wd shop and regretted that decision ever since but haven't researched enough to get the right replacement. JJVW has suggested Fox 2.0 and Chris mentioned I should consider outbound. I'll probably go down that path.

The biggest improvement would be to address the shocks. The presumed long arms can stay as is, unless you feel the need to change the behavior of the suspension

 

[LJ owner]

That's good to know. Was that the rs5000x?

I have the 5000 Ranchos on my LJR, When I pull them they will be given for free. I wouldn't want anyone else to waste their money on them.