Shock Comparison: Rancho RS5000X vs Skyjacker Black Max vs KYB Monotube

[TJim]

Have any of you light weights put your jeep on a scale? I'd be curious to see just how close we all are for comparison sake.
Mine weighs in at 3940 lbs, no top, no back seat, half a tank of fuel, without my fat ass in the seat.

No, but I think I should. I need to find a place close by

 

[jesseshoots]

Have any of you light weights put your jeep on a scale? I'd be curious to see just how close we all are for comparison sake.
Mine weighs in at 3940 lbs, no top, no back seat, half a tank of fuel, without my fat ass in the seat.

Once I get everything back together I'll throw it on a truck scale. I've always been curious.

 

[Irun]

Have any of you light weights put your jeep on a scale? I'd be curious to see just how close we all are for comparison sake.
Mine weighs in at 3940 lbs, no top, no back seat, half a tank of fuel, without my fat ass in the seat.

Like others I plan too as well. I've been diligent about watching my Jeep diet and thus far my biggest additions in weight have been:
- dana 44 rear
- 241OR
- Warn 9.5XP winch (with TRE synthetic line), and
- Savvy control arms.

I weighed in at 3540 lbs when I started and am very curious what the jeep will weigh when I'm done.

 

[Rubicon88]

Can I order some from you and get a refund with free return shipping if I don't like them?
p.s. I had the Skyjacker nitro and hydro shocks years ago. I thought they both rode bad. This was way back when OME yellow shocks actually rode good.

Hence the reason I say about the big advertising machine of Rancho..cough cough..Tenneco.
Rancho can shake the rep of their old tech stuff like it never happened. It's as if they never even made their 5000 series and have only ever had a 5000x..

Yet some want to hang on to the reputation of the hydro7k/nitro8k from SJ and write them off but ignore the old tech product from Rancho.?.

Hell let's bring back Trailmaster Invader N7's, SS's, Doestsch Tech, Heckethorns...

And then yes if you don't like them you can get a full refund, keep the product, plus entry into a free trinket drawing with your choice of a Casio calculator watch or a Harry Gant signed skoal bandit mesh back hat.
Bonus points if you knew his car number.

 

[MountaineerTom]

Hence the reason I say about the big advertising machine of Rancho..cough cough..Tenneco.
Rancho can shake the rep of their old tech stuff like it never happened. It's as if they never even made their 5000 series and have only ever had a 5000x..

Yet some want to hang on to the reputation of the hydro7k/nitro8k from SJ and write them off but ignore the old tech product from Rancho.?.

Hell let's bring back Trailmaster Invader N7's, SS's, Doestsch Tech, Heckethorns...

And then yes if you don't like them you can get a full refund, keep the product, plus entry into a free trinket drawing with your choice of a Casio calculator watch or a Harry Gant signed skoal bandit mesh back hat.
Bonus points if you knew his car number.

33

 

[Rubicon88]

I don't mind stout, as long as it builds resistance as the travel increases. I'm looking for something soft in the first 1.5" of travel, that can ramp up to control the body as deflection increases. The reason I got rid of the Bilstein's was because they didn't have that soft section before the control section...They were just "jittery" over small stuff. From what I've read, that means there isn't a flutterstack.

I don't know if the monomax has any such thing either (probably not, based simply on price) but I do tend to think that monotube shocks will get me closer to what I want than a twin tube design, simply because they can lighten the valving and use the nitrogen charge to help ramp the shock in compression when needed through the floating piston.

​

The monotube design has a single cylinder:​

The cylinder is divided into sections: A fluid area and a gas chamber. The piston and shaft move in the fluid portion. It uses a single fluid valve assembly in the piston. The diameter of the single working cylinder and piston valve is larger than in a twin tube even though the outside dimensions of each may the same. There is no need for an air or gas in the fluid area so the valve can operate more responsively and without any aeration or performance fade. The high pressure gas chamber is separated from the fluid area by a floating piston & seal. That provides an expansion area for the excess fluid movement during the compression stroke. On more aggressive movement the floating piston is pushed further into the gas chamber which increases gas pressure quickly and provides additional damping force. Because of its higher performance capabilities, the monotube design is used as original equipment on some vehicles and offered as an upgrade on vehicles that came equipped with the twin tube design.

I don't know man...

Sounds like you need to custom order something.

If I'm following you right you want something soft early but more firm as it increases.

But you want this without any expense of what?

How fast are you talking on the compression?

Something really slow compressing shouldn't be a problem to what you want.

The problem is the sudden compression that happens is going to be firm. That quicker the compression the more firm you'll find that to be.
If you want resistance built as travel increases...compressing very slowly...then what about the quick compressions? If the shock did what you hoped it would be extremely stiff on a sudden compression.

Unless I'm not following you...which might be.

If I am in fact following you I'm not sure any out of the box will satisfy your demands.

 

[Midtenn]

I like many kyb products. I’m running then on my DD right now. I didn’t consider them for the Jeep because I didn’t know they existed. I run the 5000x just like many and find them okay, but I was coming from some busted ass RC so anything would have been better.

 

[Mike_H]

I don't know man...

Sounds like you need to custom order something.

If I'm following you right you want something soft early but more firm as it increases.

But you want this without any expense of what?

How fast are you talking on the compression?

Something really slow compressing shouldn't be a problem to what you want.

The problem is the sudden compression that happens is going to be firm. That quicker the compression the more firm you'll find that to be.
If you want resistance built as travel increases...compressing very slowly...then what about the quick compressions? If the shock did what you hoped it would be extremely stiff on a sudden compression.

Unless I'm not following you...which might be.

If I am in fact following you I'm not sure any out of the box will satisfy your demands.

I fully intend on doing some custom tuned shocks in the future. I'm still not sure where I'll end up on my lift height though, so I'm waiting. I'm trying to get something that will be decent enough to last me a couple years.

 

[Rubicon88]

I fully intend on doing some custom tuned shocks in the future. I'm still not sure where I'll end up on my lift height though, so I'm waiting. I'm trying to get something that will be decent enough to last me a couple years.

Ok...explain something so I'm on your page.
The compression rate needs defined. Are you talking about a sudden fast compression or slow crawling type compression?

 

[Mike_H]

Ok...explain something so I'm on your page.
The compression rate needs defined. Are you talking about a sudden fast compression or slow crawling type compression?

I'm taking about on road driving. I liked my bilsteins, for the most part. But when you're driving on road, and you hit small stuff, like expansion joints, tar snakes, etc. The bilsteins didn't compress, like at all. All those small events transfer to the chassis and feel harsh, or jittery. Even old asphalt, where the rocks are visible, were tactile with the bilsteins.

So... I'm looking for something that has the control of the bilstein, but less harness on the small events...

My ranchos were fine for crawling. Any time the speeds kicked up though, driving over small rocks (6-8" diameter) I started getting tossed around like I owed money.

 

[Mr. Bills]

The Blackmax IMO is the smoothest of the bunch on a TJ.

There is no better/best here...everyone likes something different. A smooth ride to driver "A" might be mush to Druver "B" or too stiff or...._____ and vice versa

@Rubicon88

Skyjacker Black MAX shocks are available in the lengths I need for my particular lift so I've added them to my spreadsheet of potential replacement shocks.

Do you have an opinion about the Skyjacker Black MAX shocks for this hypothetical:

2006 LJ hardtop.
Not a Skinny Minnie.
Not a daily driver
Drives to and from the trail head, sometimes as far as 400-500 miles.
All purpose trail jeep, not a dedicated rock crawler
Considerable driving on washboarded roads.
Actual manufacturer of current shocks unknown. Most likely Edelbrock or Bilstein, but guessing.

Cat Scale weights:

Empty except for fuel and driver: 2240# F; 2600# R; 4840# Total

Fully Loaded with fuel, spare fuel and water, camping gear and food for extended trip, tools, occupants, etc.: 2260 F; 3060 R; 5320# Total

Specific Black MAX shocks on spreadsheet: B8549 and B8528

The hypothetical jeep In "heavy" trim:

 

[Rubicon88]

I'm taking about on road driving. I liked my bilsteins, for the most part. But when you're driving on road, and you hit small stuff, like expansion joints, tar snakes, etc. The bilsteins didn't compress, like at all. All those small events transfer to the chassis and feel harsh, or jittery. Even old asphalt, where the rocks are visible, were tactile with the bilsteins.

So... I'm looking for something that has the control of the bilstein, but less harness on the small events...

My ranchos were fine for crawling. Any time the speeds kicked up though, driving over small rocks (6-8" diameter) I started getting tossed around like I owed money.

Your postings are a great example of the shock advising problem.
What you're describing might not matter to anyone else.

The other thing that needs pointing out...
These are still light short WB vehicles.
I'm definitely not meaning to insult your Jeep IQ but some of what you're describing could be handled with air pressure.
Maybe you've done those experiments...

 

[Rubicon88]

@Rubicon88

Skyjacker Black MAX shocks are available in the lengths I need for my particular lift so I've added them to my spreadsheet of potential replacement shocks.

Do you have an opinion about the Skyjacker Black MAX shocks for this hypothetical:

2006 LJ hardtop.
Not a Skinny Minnie.
Not a daily driver
Drives to and from the trail head, sometimes as far as 400-500 miles.
All purpose trail jeep, not a dedicated rock crawler
Considerable driving on washboarded roads.
Actual manufacturer of current shocks unknown. Most likely Edelbrock or Bilstein, but guessing.

Cat Scale weights:

Empty except for fuel and driver: 2240# F; 2600# R; 4840# Total

Fully Loaded with fuel, spare fuel and water, camping gear and food for extended trip, tools, occupants, etc.: 2260 F; 3060 R; 5320# Total

Specific Black MAX shocks on spreadsheet: B8549 and B8528

The hypothetical jeep In "heavy" trim:

View attachment 254919

Well...
I can tell you my experience in a similar platform to your hypothesis subject.

They work really good on 4 door JK's modified that has to be approaching your subject weight. Negligible weight difference I'd say.

I really believe this...
While Rancho was busy worrying about getting the Ford contract SJ had the foresight of where Jeep was heading and I believe that shock had one vehicle driving it's design. The Jeep.

Just look at what the JK did for Jeep. They're everywhere.

They'll never admit that on record but info I have sure points to that.

 

[Mike_H]

The other thing that needs pointing out...
These are still light short WB vehicles.
I'm definitely not meaning to insult your Jeep IQ but some of what you're describing could be handled with air pressure.
Maybe you've done those experiments...

I've done tire pressure experiments. ..

 

[Mr. Bills]

Well...
I can tell you my experience in a similar platform to your hypothesis subject.

They work really good on 4 door JK's modified that has to be approaching your subject weight.

Thanks for your observations. They are helpful, particularly the analogy to JK weight and Skyjacker's focus on the Jeep JK aftermarket.

BTW, here are some general JK curb weights harvested by Google:

"Jeep Wrangler Sport: 3,970 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport: 4,201 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport S: 4,201 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Moab: 4,345 pounds."

It could be that most of the salient Skyjacker Black MAX shock user reviews will be on the JK forums.

 

[Rubicon88]

Thanks for your observations. They are helpful, particularly the analogy to JK weight and Skyjacker's focus on the Jeep JK aftermarket.

BTW, here are some general JK curb weights harvested by Google:

"Jeep Wrangler Sport: 3,970 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport: 4,201 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport S: 4,201 pounds. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Moab: 4,345 pounds."

It could be that most of the salient Skyjacker Black MAX shock user reviews will be on the JK forums.

Perhaps but....
I only became a member on here last year. Maybe only 9 months ago....
It was amazing to me just how little the Bkackmax was spoken of on any shock post. Like none...zero...non existent. There was no good or bad talk. Zero talk. Could there be more talk of them on the JK forum? Maybe...
Maybe just by default there would be since the amount of JK buyers have dwarfed all other Jeep versions.?.
I still wouldn't hold my breath on that. Forums are full of sheep and that Tenneco machine is a monster.

 

[P man]

NOBODY to my knowledge has tried all three on a TJ, so the point is mute. Speculation is all you can get.
p.s. You might be the only Jeep owner is history to buy Rancho shocks that are too SHORT, since they run long.

its moot

 

[jjvw]

Perhaps but....
I only became a member on here last year. Maybe only 9 months ago....
It was amazing to me just how little the Bkackmax was spoken of on any shock post. Like none...zero...non existent. There was no good or bad talk. Zero talk. Could there be more talk of them on the JK forum? Maybe...
Maybe just by default there would be since the amount of JK buyers have dwarfed all other Jeep versions.?.
I still wouldn't hold my breath on that. Forums are full of sheep and that Tenneco machine is a monster.

You were the first to bring up the black max. For better or for worse, the 5000x has been pushed and repeated around here pretty hard. I lost my interest in the 5000x after some increased perspective. Bottom line is that more people need to experiment with more shocks. The Black Max included.

 

[TheBoogieman]

its moot

Damn spellcheck failed me again? Is spellcheck one word?

 

[TheBoogieman]

Bottom line is that more people need to experiment with more shocks. The Black Max included.

They do, but most people don't want to experiment or have the cash to spend $250 on shocks to throw them away or sell on craigslist for half price. That's why I only trust a couple members opinions on anything. I'm waiting for Irun's review. Damn opinions! I wanted some Patagonia tires and you ruined it.