By the way, muriatic acid works well for removing zinc plating and galvanizing, too. When I built the beams for the second floor in my shop, I welded 92 11ga joist hangers to the beams. I couldn't get the joist hangers in-the-white, and I was not enthused about welding all that galvanized steel indoors (the beams are 30 feet long and weigh about a ton, so once they were in the shop, they were there to stay). About 30 seconds in a muriatic acid bath took the galvanizing off.
All things welding
- Thread starter AirborneTexasRanger
- Start date
OP
MIG welding techniques. Not as important as preparation, but worth taking about.
First off, remember the ABCs of welding - Always Be Comfortable. This holds true for the entire length of the weld you're about to put down. Many welders will do a couple dry runs to get a good body position. Your body is naturally going to move around when you breathe, sneeze, fart, etc. so be mindful of that as well. Your hands will probably shake when trying to hold something steady so try to find something to prop your hand against. Sometimes I will even place a clamp near the joint to brace off of.
I previously mentioned gun angle & drag/pull angles but I'll go a little more in depth. As a refresher here's a visual of what I'm referring to.
Most MIG welding will be pushing because you can see where you're going and IMO it's easier. No offense to those who prefer drag & if that makes you comfortable then do it. Too much of an angle will hinder your shielding hag from doing its job. It will also reduce penetration & that's where a weld gets its strength. Tell tail signs of bad angle are excessive amounts large size spatter, a lot of brownish colored soot around the weld & the shape of the weld typically humped up in the middle.
In addition to push/pull there's also what's called electrode manipulation. Basically, how you move the wire while you're welding. The basic method is simple, just moving the gun in a straight line along the length of the joint, commonly called a stringer bead. The other method is commonly called a weave or "MIG like TIG" which is basically moving in a pattern to help spread the weld puddle and get good fusion on the sides of the weld. This creates that stack of dimes look that's visually appealing. There’re dozens of different patterns for different joint configurations but the principle is still the same. I can get into the different patterns later if anyone is interested.
Other things to pay attention to is how much wire is sticking out between the edge of the nozzle & the weld puddle. Try to keep this around ½”. The purpose of this is to keep the weld puddle covered with your shielding gas. Position your head where you can actually see the whole weld puddle. I like to keep my head in front & weld towards me. This will also keep your head out of the fumes. When your welding, don’t just stare at the arc. You need to watch the whole thing
Sorry If it seems like I overloading this thread with information & rambling, but it’s slow at work right now for test flight 3 preparation so I’m a little bored right now.
First off, remember the ABCs of welding - Always Be Comfortable. This holds true for the entire length of the weld you're about to put down. Many welders will do a couple dry runs to get a good body position. Your body is naturally going to move around when you breathe, sneeze, fart, etc. so be mindful of that as well. Your hands will probably shake when trying to hold something steady so try to find something to prop your hand against. Sometimes I will even place a clamp near the joint to brace off of.
I previously mentioned gun angle & drag/pull angles but I'll go a little more in depth. As a refresher here's a visual of what I'm referring to.
Most MIG welding will be pushing because you can see where you're going and IMO it's easier. No offense to those who prefer drag & if that makes you comfortable then do it. Too much of an angle will hinder your shielding hag from doing its job. It will also reduce penetration & that's where a weld gets its strength. Tell tail signs of bad angle are excessive amounts large size spatter, a lot of brownish colored soot around the weld & the shape of the weld typically humped up in the middle.
In addition to push/pull there's also what's called electrode manipulation. Basically, how you move the wire while you're welding. The basic method is simple, just moving the gun in a straight line along the length of the joint, commonly called a stringer bead. The other method is commonly called a weave or "MIG like TIG" which is basically moving in a pattern to help spread the weld puddle and get good fusion on the sides of the weld. This creates that stack of dimes look that's visually appealing. There’re dozens of different patterns for different joint configurations but the principle is still the same. I can get into the different patterns later if anyone is interested.
Other things to pay attention to is how much wire is sticking out between the edge of the nozzle & the weld puddle. Try to keep this around ½”. The purpose of this is to keep the weld puddle covered with your shielding gas. Position your head where you can actually see the whole weld puddle. I like to keep my head in front & weld towards me. This will also keep your head out of the fumes. When your welding, don’t just stare at the arc. You need to watch the whole thing
Sorry If it seems like I overloading this thread with information & rambling, but it’s slow at work right now for test flight 3 preparation so I’m a little bored right now.
Wire stick out is one I struggle with. As I rotate in my stool, I often forget to extend my arms to keep that stick out the same. The end of my weld I can hear an obvious change, then I notice I am well passed a 1/2" stick out.
OP
@tworley Try making a couple of dry runs first where you move your gun along the joint as if you are welding but without striking an arc. It sounds & looks silly, but it will help you out a lot
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Interested in learning the different patterns and where they are/aren't appropriate.
Absolutely not, thank you for the education.
Uttered by every beginning welder ever. The problem with weaves and patterns is beginners use them under the erroneous premise that they will magically make their welds look good. While true to a certain extent, beginners should perfect the technique of little to no tip movement other than the direction of the weld path and concentrate on speed, and consistency until they can get consistent welds most every time. Once you get that consistency locked in to where it is second nature, the ability to do a small weave to lay in a wider weld will practically come automatically. The vast majority start with some bullshit cursive e or some other fucked up alphabet welding because the small tip movement produces a better "looking" weld without it generally being a better weld. Those same folks never learn to lay in a weld that looks like a perfect bead of caulking and they never will.Interested in learning the different patterns and where they are/aren't appropriate.
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Uncommon is an understatement. I've been buying metal for a very long time in SoCal including miles of stuff from the cheapest, shittiest, lowest quality place that specialized in supplying the import labor wrought iron industry. If their stuff had any semblance to something quality related, I'm sure they shipped it off to a high dollar supplier and yet, not a single inch of stuff I bought there in the form of tubing had mill scale. They did however, take some black tar, some used diesel oil, a few gallons of used motor oil and managed to get that all mixed up into something they sprayed on it to keep it from rusting. But, any basic solvent would remove it and reveal the clean shiny non mill scale having tube underneath. Those were the days of also never leaving home without a pair of work gloves. Pulling that stuff from the rack would turn your hands black after a few pieces. The gloves never went into the cab either, in the bed only unless you wanted to try and get that nasty crap off of the interior.
OP
MIG welding patterns will vary depending on the joint geometry, see reference below . The simplest pattern is no pattern at all, usually called a stringer where you’re just moving the gun along at a constant speed in a straight line. A stringer is sometimes necessary if you’re welding thin material & need to move fast. I think beginners struggle with this because of its simplicity. If you don’t know what you’re looking at then you are just going through the motions. This is the main reason people suggest starting with oxy/fuel welding because you have to carefully watch what the puddle & base metal are doing or “reading” the puddle.
Believe it or not, you can learn the same thing with MIG using a “whip & pause” pattern. Essentially what you’re doing is quickly moving the wire tip to the leading edge of the weld puddle then letting it fill up then repeat in a consistent pace. What this is doing is allowing the arc to heat the base metal to a molten state “digging” then letting the weld puddle fill that up with the melting wire. This will help you understand what is happening to the metal & what to look for.
Once you learn to read the puddle & you can lay down a nice consistent stringer then you can begin trying other patterns.
For reference:
Flat - Zig Zag - Make sure you're getting enough penetration in the middle & focus on tying in the side edges of the puddle to the base metal.
Horizontal - circles or cursive “e” - Your up stroke should always be on the leading edge in the direction you are welding. Also, a slight pause at the top of the loop & moving faster along the bottom will ensure even distribution of weld metal because you will be fighting gravity.
Vertical Up - Chevrons or upside down “V” - Spend more time tying in on the sides & quickly move to the other side. The weld puddle will naturally fall to the middle so the peak of the chevron will help keep the puddle from pouring out. A slight upward gun angle will help (5°-10° from perpendicular to the weld)
Vertical Down - Crescent moon - Again, spend more time tying in on the sides & quickly move to the other side. You will need to move faster because the weld puddle is going to fall if you can’t control it. A slightly more aggressive upward gun angle will help (10°-15° from perpendicular to the weld)
Overhead - Depends - If I’m pulling the weld towards me I’ll do a quick little zig zag motion, but if I’m welding side to side I’ll do circles. With overhead you really need to watch he puddle and move fast so I try to avoid this if at all possible.
There’s dozens of patterns but these are the basics that will help you chose which one you think works best for you.
Believe it or not, you can learn the same thing with MIG using a “whip & pause” pattern. Essentially what you’re doing is quickly moving the wire tip to the leading edge of the weld puddle then letting it fill up then repeat in a consistent pace. What this is doing is allowing the arc to heat the base metal to a molten state “digging” then letting the weld puddle fill that up with the melting wire. This will help you understand what is happening to the metal & what to look for.
Once you learn to read the puddle & you can lay down a nice consistent stringer then you can begin trying other patterns.
For reference:
Flat - Zig Zag - Make sure you're getting enough penetration in the middle & focus on tying in the side edges of the puddle to the base metal.
Horizontal - circles or cursive “e” - Your up stroke should always be on the leading edge in the direction you are welding. Also, a slight pause at the top of the loop & moving faster along the bottom will ensure even distribution of weld metal because you will be fighting gravity.
Vertical Up - Chevrons or upside down “V” - Spend more time tying in on the sides & quickly move to the other side. The weld puddle will naturally fall to the middle so the peak of the chevron will help keep the puddle from pouring out. A slight upward gun angle will help (5°-10° from perpendicular to the weld)
Vertical Down - Crescent moon - Again, spend more time tying in on the sides & quickly move to the other side. You will need to move faster because the weld puddle is going to fall if you can’t control it. A slightly more aggressive upward gun angle will help (10°-15° from perpendicular to the weld)
Overhead - Depends - If I’m pulling the weld towards me I’ll do a quick little zig zag motion, but if I’m welding side to side I’ll do circles. With overhead you really need to watch he puddle and move fast so I try to avoid this if at all possible.
There’s dozens of patterns but these are the basics that will help you chose which one you think works best for you.
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OP
I used to work in a fab shop that learned he hard way that this substance should be cleaned off before running it through the shot blaster. I felt like a kid admiring the big fire trucks.
TNHEADDUCK
TJ Enthusiast
The vast majority start with some bullshit cursive e or some other fucked up alphabet welding .
This should be quote of the week !!!!!!
This should be quote of the week !!!!!!
Not that I can every time, but when you get to where you can do this the vast majority of the time, then the weaves and patterns become almost automatic. If you don't, then they become a crutch because you didn't spend the time to nail down the basics. No weave, no back and forth, no move, pause, move, just steady at a 45 45 angle, forehand or push weld just watching the puddle to control the width across the face and holding the electrode in the root.Interested in learning the different patterns and where they are/aren't appropriate.
I am meticulous about clean metal where paint, oil, and grease, and some mill scale are involved. I don't care so much about light surface rust because it has never given me an issue. That comes from my teacher who worked at Cat who explained if they had to clean off light surface rust, then would never get anything welded.
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OP
Minimal spatter, consistent heat input & those corner tie ins are looking damn good
The spatter is from a bad habit. I am terrible about slowing down on finish welds because my mind says it needs to be extra strong so I have to continually make myself remember to move just a tiny bit faster and stop staying in the puddle too long. My other bad habit that I won't fix is my tacks are too big. I do them that size because we cycle a bunch and if the tacks are not robust, then the mounts break off. I always tie in the corners like that which is a whole bunch easier if you have a hood with good vision.
From what I can see here, I’m so far away from this level, it’s not even funny. I suppose it’s just a matter of hood time.
OP
Now you know how I feel when y'all start talking about gear ratios, suspension geometry & all that engine stuff. I'm 90% fabricator & 10% mechanic at best.
Hood time yes, but hood time with the intent to develop good habits that stay with you. There are a few things that are a problem that cause beginners to do other than a steady weld. The first one is every teensy little bobble, change in speed rate, or change in angles shows up in the final weld. It is a very unforgiving way to weld but it also tells you that your mechanics and muscle memory are being developed. The other thing is we as a species are very result oriented. We want stuff to look good and look like we know what we are doing right away. That style of welding is not conducive to that at all since it shows every tiny little "mistake" in technique.
I left them alone for rough pics, I'll wire brush them tomorrow to show the difference.
Let's just say I'm at 10% knowledge in both of those.
And even then, knowledge ≠ understanding.
That resonated.. So it's about knowing what factors affect the final weld, and practicing what's needed to optimize them, which eventually becomes muscle memory.