Cost and quality of control arms

Adjustable arms being sold for lower lifts is marketing. It's a way for rough county and others to increase revenue. They are so big, that people think, "If RC does it, it must be necessary.".

That is patently false.

The only time you need adjustables is to adjust pinion angle. Pinion angle takes priority over caster. If we had longer rear drive shafts, 4" lifts would be fine for stock arms. It's just with a 16 inch rear DS, you need to go double carden with an SYE to quell vibration. Once you have a DC driveshaft, you need adjustable arms to dial in pinion angle.
 
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imactj2004 said:
Not confused. But definitely questioning my original understanding and wondering why other forums and discussions do make that suggestion (to go to adjustible for any lift).
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I think as far as control arms are concerned, you only need to replace them unless you have a current issue with your control arms right now. There are two main issues I know about. One problem is that as you lift the jeep higher, the wheels will begin to move forward/back (the front tires will move towards the back of the wheel well and rears will move toward the front of their wheel well). Getting longer/adjustable control arms allows you to push them back to their original spot. Another issue, which I think is the one you're more familiar with is the rear pinion angle. As it gets lifted higher the rear driveshaft is now less a straight shot from the transfer case to the rear diff, which can cause vibrations when it gets extreme enough. To fix this you can get a set of rear upper adjustable arms that will angle the rear axle upwards to make it face more towards the TC.

The reason other people may recommend you to go adjustable immediately is that maybe they or someone they know had those problems with that certain level of lift. But if you don't have any of those problems, then you don't need to make any changes at all. Most people on here have never had any problems with your size of lift, and it doesn't sound like you do either. So there is just no reason to get anything else for your build rn. Once you get up to the 3in of lift is where having these problems become much more consistent, and you should factor buying some other CA if you decide to take your build in that direction.

Anyone else feel free to correct me if I messed something up in this.
 
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Calvin.8 said:
I think as far as control arms are concerned, you only need to replace them unless you have a current issue with your control arms right now. There are two main issues I know about. One problem is that as you lift the jeep higher, the wheels will begin to move forward/back (the front tires will move towards the back of the wheel well and rears will move toward the front of their wheel well). Getting longer/adjustable control arms allows you to push them back to their original spot. Another issue, which I think is the one you're more familiar with is the rear pinion angle. As it gets lifted higher the rear driveshaft is now less a straight shot from the transfer case to the rear diff, which can cause vibrations when it gets extreme enough. To fix this you can get a set of rear upper adjustable arms that will angle the rear axle upwards to make it face more towards the TC.

The reason other people may recommend you to go adjustable immediately is that maybe they or someone they know had those problems with that certain level of lift. But if you don't have any of those problems, then you don't need to make any changes at all. Most people on here have never had any problems with your size of lift, and it doesn't sound like you do either. So there is just no reason to get anything else for your build rn. Once you get up to the 3in of lift is where having these problems become much more consistent, and you should factor buying some other CA if you decide to take your build in that direction.

Anyone else feel free to correct me if I messed something up in this.
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Right…and that’s sort of the heart of what led me down the rabbit hole of research.

My current issue is that the front end bushings are shot. In fact, when I inherited this vehicle, the rear were also shot. I replaced them with low cost adjustibles but still have the front to replace.

I was led to believe that the original cause of bushing failure was the result of added/undesired strain due to the lift but Im realizing now, from this thread, that that probably incorrect and the bushing failed because…well, bushings fail after extended wear n tear.

So…now Im left with three choices

  • replace front with matching brand in rear for consistency
  • replace front with stock or comparable
  • replace both front and rear with stock or comparable


And for context: I inherited this vehicle from my father n law who was notoriously cheap in his purchases. I know nothing about what he did or did not do to the vehicle. I dont know if the failing bushings are the originals or some used replacements that he installed. I also dont know what the ride *should* feel like accept not what it is now which is noticable clunk/shift in front arms when weight shifts. Used to have similar in rear but that has since disappeared since replacing.
 
imactj2004 said:
Not confused. But definitely questioning my original understanding and wondering why other forums and discussions do make that suggestion (to go to adjustible for any lift).
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At the end of the day, are you not as you put it so succinctly, just listening to some dude on the internet?
 
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Ha-ha. Yes. But thats why I asked about what metrics or signs to look for from the manufacturer…ie: tested within certain tolerances.
 
Ya, I don't believe that the size of the lift would have anything to do with the strain on the bushings. If I were you I'd definitely just replace the front with another stock pair. As for the rear, it depends on your usage. If you really just use it for your DD and very rarely take it off road and push the suspension hard, your current adjustable rear CA's should be fine, and you don't need to drop any extra money that you don't need.
Thats what I would do in your situation.
 
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Mike_H said:
Unless you do a tummy tuck with 2" of lift...Then you need adjustable arms and you're going to arms that use johnny joints.
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It’ll be a first, but I’m interested in the condom. 🤣
 
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Calvin.8 said:
Ya, I don't believe that the size of the lift would have anything to do with the strain on the bushings. If I were you I'd definitely just replace the front with another stock pair. As for the rear, it depends on your usage. If you really just use it for your DD and very rarely take it off road and push the suspension hard, your current adjustable rear CA's should be fine, and you don't need to drop any extra money that you don't need.
Thats what I would do in your situation.
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The size of the lift absolutely has an effect but only indirectly but with very direct consequences. As you increase lift height, that allows longer shocks which increases travel in the axle which rotates the bolt sleeves in the Clevite bushings more. The more you rotate them, the shorter the lifespan. They have practically unlimited life span at a few degrees of rotation and only a few cycles of 180 degrees of rotation before they break the bond. (made up numbers for illustration)
 
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imactj2004 said:
Right…and that’s sort of the heart of what led me down the rabbit hole of research.

My current issue is that the front end bushings are shot. In fact, when I inherited this vehicle, the rear were also shot. I replaced them with low cost adjustibles but still have the front to replace.

I was led to believe that the original cause of bushing failure was the result of added/undesired strain due to the lift but Im realizing now, from this thread, that that probably incorrect and the bushing failed because…well, bushings fail after extended wear n tear.

So…now Im left with three choices

  • replace front with matching brand in rear for consistency
  • replace front with stock or comparable
  • replace both front and rear with stock or comparable


And for context: I inherited this vehicle from my father n law who was notoriously cheap in his purchases. I know nothing about what he did or did not do to the vehicle. I dont know if the failing bushings are the originals or some used replacements that he installed. I also dont know what the ride *should* feel like accept not what it is now which is noticable clunk/shift in front arms when weight shifts. Used to have similar in rear but that has since disappeared since replacing.
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Or option #4 drop $6000 on 4" lift, sye,driveshaft, 4 control arms,new wheels,33s, lockers, re gear, etc................ 😜
 
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mrblaine said:
The size of the lift absolutely has an effect but only indirectly but with very direct consequences. As you increase lift height, that allows longer shocks which increases travel in the axle which rotates the bolt sleeves in the Clevite bushings more. The more you rotate them, the shorter the lifespan. They have practically unlimited life span at a few degrees of rotation and only a few cycles of 180 degrees of rotation before they break the bond. (made up numbers for illustration)
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Ok, thanks didn't know that. So in your experience what amount of lift usually starts causing a serious problem in the bushing lifespan. Is it just the +2in that everyone recommends getting JJ control arms anyway?
 
Calvin.8 said:
Ok, thanks didn't know that. So in your experience what amount of lift usually starts causing a serious problem in the bushing lifespan. Is it just the +2in that everyone recommends getting JJ control arms anyway?
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Stock arms as a temporary stop gap but I cycled 11.5 / 12” with springs out and stock replacement arms are not as tight as new after just a few trips out.

Held up fine til I went offroading, I commuted at 3” lift for a few thousand miles where they weren’t being cycled outside the realm a stock Jeep would see and they stayed tight as new.
 
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imactj2004 said:
I wanna dive into this a bit.

"the only advantage they have over the stock arms is the length and angle are designed to compensate for caster and wheelbase changes due to taller springs. The advantage isn't worth the tradeoff in a small lift situation. "​


This is the part that still doesn't make sense. I totally understand what everyone is saying about risks in a high articulation situation. But a daily driver/basic off-road situation isn't going to be subject to those extremes and every other forum or YT video that I've ever read about any lift beyond a basic rake adjustment is that adjustibles are required to properly compensate for caster. Yes?


StockAfterMarket (non-JJ)JJ
Good Flex for General Use√x√
Allows for Caster Adjustmentx√√
Max Flex for High Articulationxx√
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Do a google search for broken or cracked control arm mounts for Wrangler TJs, read the threads, see what CAs were used, and what sort of "daily driver/basic off-road situations" the owners put their Jeeps through. There are a ton of threads out there to get you started.
 
JMT said:
It’ll be a first, but I’m interested in the condom. 🤣
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I dunno if this is big enough, but this is the picture in my mind

1651518233084.png


https://www.polyperformance.com/fk-rod-ends-rers-series-rod-end-seals
 
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rasband said:
Ugh. This is only useful when we know what the OP is trying to accomplish. The core 4x4 arms are as bad as every other CA on rubber/poly bushings. They don't graduate beyond that until tier 2 ($900) and really only compete with the rest until they're in the same price range.

Feel free to buy into MCs though. I've had to grease my joints (nearly a zero cost) when wheeling buddies had to replace the whole joint since they're not serviceable.

I'll shut up now though, since otherwise we will dive into a JJ vs MC thread between those that know and don't.
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Well they built my arms and we used JL duo durometer bushings in a set. So the arm is not the issue mostly it’s the bushings you use…
 
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