Do you need two air compressors?

[pc1p]

That little single-cylinder compressor comes nowhere near 5.65 CFM in actual use. If you find their more detailed specs you'll discover that 5.65 CFM is measured into 0 psi resistance... open air in other words. Our lungs can put out that much CFM into open air. Into a tire's back pressure, typically measured at 10 psi, would be likely around 1/3 that much.

Smittybilt plays games with their specifications including using that misleading type of CFM spec (into 0 psi backpressure). It is physically small enough that I knew it couldn't put out 5.65 CFM so I started digging. It took me a while to find the actual spec on that but I kept digging until I found it since you can tell by just looking at its small single cylinder design that it couldn't possibly put out that much CFM at a proper 10 psi (or so) resistance pressure like a tire has in it. I forget by now what it put out into back pressure but it was more like 2 CFM.

You make a good point @Jerry Bransford and looking back over the comment, I certainly did not communicate what was going through my head (that's what I get for glancing at the forum between meetings!). I didn't intend to suggest that the Smitty and ARB Twin were on the same playing field (I actually meant to post the CKM - "non-T" - as comparison but got my strings crossed flipping between tabs). Manufacturers making wild claims or painting their performance in the best way possible has been around since, well, the beginning of manufacturing. A healthy dose of caveat emptor when dealing with claims is always well prescribed.

Let's be realistic here, this doesn't apply to just Smittybilt. Viair also posts CFM ratings at 0 psig. Take their Model 420C which is advertised as being 2.95 CFM drops down to 2.38 CFM at 10 psig, and 2.21 CFM at 20 psig. At least they provide a bit more technical information about their performance (see below). Even the ARB compressors all give their CFM rating at 0 psig, though like Viair they are a bit more transparent about their performance...

Viair 420C Rating:

ARB Compressor Performance Data (pulled from off-road.com):

Now with that said, I go back to the Smittybilt 2781. With 2.5 cfm @ 30 psig, that's still fairly good performance for a portable unit. It is about 35% faster than my Viair 400P that I have used for a while (and quite often) without any issues. For the cost and portability, it still makes it a decent option for many.

 

[mrblaine]

You make a good point @Jerry Bransford and looking back over the comment, I certainly did not communicate what was going through my head (that's what I get for glancing at the forum between meetings!). I didn't intend to suggest that the Smitty and ARB Twin were on the same playing field (I actually meant to post the CKM - "non-T" - as comparison but got my strings crossed flipping between tabs). Manufacturers making wild claims or painting their performance in the best way possible has been around since, well, the beginning of manufacturing. A healthy dose of caveat emptor when dealing with claims is always well prescribed.

Let's be realistic here, this doesn't apply to just Smittybilt. Viair also posts CFM ratings at 0 psig. Take their Model 420C which is advertised as being 2.95 CFM drops down to 2.38 CFM at 10 psig, and 2.21 CFM at 20 psig. At least they provide a bit more technical information about their performance (see below). Even the ARB compressors all give their CFM rating at 0 psig, though like Viair they are a bit more transparent about their performance...

Viair 420C Rating:
View attachment 286609

ARB Compressor Performance Data (pulled from off-road.com):
View attachment 286612

Now with that said, I go back to the Smittybilt 2781. With 2.5 cfm @ 30 psig, that's still fairly good performance for a portable unit. It is about 35% faster than my Viair 400P that I have used for a while (and quite often) without any issues. For the cost and portability, it still makes it a decent option for many.

Smitty could build a compressor with twice the performance of ARB at half the price and I still wouldn't buy it. I despise their business model with a passion and won't spend 1 thin dime to support it.

 

[pc1p]

Consider yourself 'hit up".

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/cutting-my-hood-for-arb-compressor.56347/

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Now with that said, I go back to the Smittybilt 2781. With 2.5 cfm @ 30 psig, that's still fairly good performance for a portable unit. It is about 35% faster than my Viair 400P that I have used for a while (and quite often) without any issues. For the cost and portability, it still makes it a decent option for many.

Knowing the complete history of Smittybilt, I wouldn't TOUCH a Smittybilt product. Old man Smitty built a fine company with good quality products that were popular with Jeepers. Then he died. Investors went to the Smith family and bought the rights to use the Smittybilt name. They didn't buy the company, they just bought the name and started importing junk parts from China and selling them as Smittybilt. Instant sales since Smittybilt had a good reputation. Then it was noticed the stuff was junk by many Jeepers who stopped buying their junk. Only newer younger Jeepers continued buying. Then Transamerica bought them and caused more cost-cutting like they have done with every other Jeep parts company they have bought. Misleading ads and they don't even bury the real specs, they make them unavailable on their website. Junk parts, misleading specs. Again, I wouldn't TOUCH a Smittybilt product.

Two of their fine products.

 

[kiwi]

Lol, okay so not shittybilt

Seems like vlair and york are good options so far? Vlair is a good price, found the 400p on amazon for 250$. York on the other hand is pretty pricey. Complete kit around 1k? I agree buy once cry once, but is it worth it?

Those who are running/have run either of these compressors, is the york worth the extra $? Or would i be better of just getting the vlair? Only running 33’s, and will only use the compressor for tires, nothing else.

Also how long can i expect it to the take to go from 12-26 psi on 33’s with the vlair?

 

[tworley]

Lol, okay so not shittybilt

Seems like vlair and york are good options so far? Vlair is a good price, found the 400p on amazon for 250$. York on the other hand is pretty pricey. Complete kit around 1k? I agree buy once cry once, but is it worth it?

Those who are running/have run either of these compressors, is the york worth the extra $? Or would i be better of just getting the vlair? Only running 33’s, and will only use the compressor for tires, nothing else.

Also how long can i expect it to the take to go from 12-26 psi on 33’s with the vlair?

Go to a junkyard and pull a york. Build your own plumbing system. I did that with my Sanden and have probably $300 into it. The bracket though I hear is the big cost for York.

Also, I said I would use mine for only tires but its been used for many things since installing. Definitely worth it.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

York on the other hand is pretty pricey. Complete kit around 1k? I agree buy once cry once, but is it worth it?

The main cost of a York OBA system now is the bracket. I spent $35 for my used but good condition York compressor from an auto parts yard. Other than the bracket everything else is inexpensive. The bracket is what stopped me from installing a York into my present TJ, though I have to say I am 99% happy with my CO2 system. Consider that too, it's about as fast as my York is and it cost me just south of $200 to put it together from parts I sourced online and at my local hardware store.

 

[kiwi]

The main cost of a York OBA system now is the bracket. I spent $35 for my used but good condition York compressor from an auto parts yard. Other than the bracket everything else is inexpensive. The bracket is what stopped me from installing a York into my present TJ, though I have to say I am 99% happy with my CO2 system. Consider that too, it's about as fast as my York is and it cost me just south of $200 to put it together from parts I sourced online and at my local hardware store.

Thanks Jerry. I found a thread on another jeep forum where you said the F210 is the most desirable york? Is that correct?
I will look into the C02 system but if i can find a good deal on a york at a local junkyard i might just take that route.

 

[tworley]

I used CO2 for a lot of years and it worked well. However, there were many times where I ran out and hadn't finished filling all four tires back up. The tank also takes up space in the cargo area. While it is still a small item, it is something to consider. I was filling mine 2-3 times a season at $20 bucks a fill. I much prefer the belt-driven style of OBA

 

[kiwi]

I used CO2 for a lot of years and it worked well. However, there were many times where I ran out and hadn't finished filling all four tires back up. The tank also takes up space in the cargo area. While it is still a small item, it is something to consider. I was filling mine 2-3 times a season at $20 bucks a fill. I much prefer the belt-driven style of OBA

That’s my main concern with C02. I would much prefer a system where i don’t have to worry if i will run out or if i need to go get it refilled every couple of trips. Although the york needs maintainence every once in a while, it seems to save money and time in the long run.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

I used CO2 for a lot of years and it worked well. However, there were many times where I ran out and hadn't finished filling all four tires back up. The tank also takes up space in the cargo area. While it is still a small item, it is something to consider.

All you have to do to prevent running out of CO2 is to weigh the tank before leaving to go offroading. I do that every 2-3 trips, it's an easy way to know exactly how much CO2 remains in the tank. Weigh the tank, then subtract the tank's tare weight. The difference is how many lbs. of CO2 remains.

And as you can see, my CO2 tank takes up effectively no cargo space, it's completely up and out of the way.

 

[jjvw]

Lol, okay so not shittybilt

Seems like vlair and york are good options so far? Vlair is a good price, found the 400p on amazon for 250$. York on the other hand is pretty pricey. Complete kit around 1k? I agree buy once cry once, but is it worth it?

Those who are running/have run either of these compressors, is the york worth the extra $? Or would i be better of just getting the vlair? Only running 33’s, and will only use the compressor for tires, nothing else.

Also how long can i expect it to the take to go from 12-26 psi on 33’s with the vlair?

Yorks are great, but are expensive and have many opportunities for failure.

Mine can fill four 35s from 8psi to 25psi in about 7-8 minutes, full setup to full take down. Then I find myself filling up other people's tires.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Yorks are great, but are expensive and have many opportunities for failure.

Many opportunities for failure is not my experience with them. Properly set up with heat resistant hose coming off the compressor and they're pretty darned bulletproof. Mine never gave me any problems, it was a solid performer. And at least when I installed mine with Brad Kilby's kit, it was an not an expensive project.

 

[suicideking]

Knowing the complete history of Smittybilt, I wouldn't TOUCH a Smittybilt product. Old man Smitty built a fine company with good quality products that were popular with Jeepers. Then he died. Investors went to the Smith family and bought the rights to use the Smittybilt name. They didn't buy the company, they just bought the name and started importing junk parts from China and selling them as Smittybilt. Instant sales since Smittybilt had a good reputation. Then it was noticed the stuff was junk by many Jeepers who stopped buying their junk. Only newer younger Jeepers continued buying. Then Transamerica bought them and caused more cost-cutting like they have done with every other Jeep parts company they have bought. Misleading ads and they don't even bury the real specs, they make them unavailable on their website. Junk parts, misleading specs. Again, I wouldn't TOUCH a Smittybilt product.

Two of their fine products.

View attachment 286639View attachment 286640

Agree with this. I've seen their 'rock rails' crumple like they were made with recycled aluminum cans. Made someone's door cave in.

 

[jjvw]

Many opportunities for failure is not my experience with them. Properly set up with heat resistant hose coming off the compressor and they're pretty darned bulletproof. Mine never gave me any problems, it was a solid performer. And at least when I installed mine with Brad Kilby's kit, it was an not an expensive project.

Mine has been mostly trouble free, except for the pump head that seized up a couple years ago from an extended run time. But I wasn't filling tires when it happened.

 

[NOTNSUV]

All you have to do to prevent running out of CO2 is to weigh the tank before leaving to go offroading. I do that every 2-3 trips, it's an easy way to know exactly how much CO2 remains in the tank. Weigh the tank, then subtract the tank's tare weight. The difference is how many lbs. of CO2 remains.

And as you can see, my CO2 tank takes up effectively no cargo space, it's completely up and out of the way.

View attachment 286653

Jerry, might you have a writeup on your mounting solution?
..and of course, who's our favorite vendor for tank and accessories?

 

[Jerry Bransford]

Jerry, might you have a writeup on your mounting solution?

I bought a "scratch & dent" model of this... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KC93MM/?tag=wranglerorg-20

The non-scratch/dent model is at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078Y2Q2LQ/?tag=wranglerorg-20 but it's definitely not cheap. I only paid $56 for the scratch and dent version.

The good news is it was neither scratched nor dented, it was pristine. I think they were just trying to move more of them at a reduced price by claiming they were not first-quality.

 

[mrblaine]

Many opportunities for failure is not my experience with them. Properly set up with heat resistant hose coming off the compressor and they're pretty darned bulletproof. Mine never gave me any problems, it was a solid performer. And at least when I installed mine with Brad Kilby's kit, it was an not an expensive project.

You would be the single exception of the 10 or so in rigs I've wheeled with consistently over the years. There was always a spirited debate on the boards, then I'd get to give them massive amounts of crap in person on the lake bed when the hood was up over a York related issue.

 

[mrblaine]

Once upon a time; I used to use one of the original ARB singles to air up my tires. It was slow, and would get hot, and eventually blew a seal.

View attachment 286495

I figured that's why they came up with the ARB twin.

That compressor and the single that makes up the twin have very little in common. That one is just about equivalent to the mini they have now.

 

[B00mb00m]

I had a single Puma doin a single locker + tire fill duty then replaced it by the ARB Twin Compressor. The twin compressor is much quieter than the Puma and also fills tires faster. Both compressors were 100% reliable. I liked the setup of the ARB was very simple and the over the manifold mount allowed me to fit it in my extremely low volume engine compartment. I couldn't fit the puma beneath the booster with highlines which is why i switched.