Does control arm bushing composition affect ride quality or NVH?

[jjvw]

Thats not entirely true. Even the race for the JJ needs to have a hole where the bolt runs through the sleeve. I think dust could get in there just as easily as it does the DDB. But the advantage I see in the JJ is a little grease will push it back out.

The race is slightly smaller than the ball. The two halves need to be pressed together before the c clip can be installed in the housing. The hole through race for the ball is sealed by the compressed race and acts like a squeegee all around the opening.

 

[Fargo]

... sealed by the compressed race and acts like a squeegee all around the opening.

I can see that. Good description. The DDB is similar in that it is a tight fit, but it doesn't really have the squeegee effect. But then again, because the teflon and the inner durometer of rubber is sandwiched between 2 steel sleeves it doesn't seem like the DDB would be able to open up at all to allow any dust or debris to get in there. At least until the teflon layer or the inner durometer wears thin. Then if it does, I think it could wear out fast.

As you said the loading is different. So each design is going to react very differently to dirt and debris as well as NVH. I think the way the round ball spreads out the load in a JJ plays a big part in how the JJ cussions NVH. There is more material around that ball than people realize and its not just the material directly behind the ball that abosorbs NVH.

Anyway, as far as the DDB and longevity I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think there are a lot of unknowns here. Time will tell and I've just purchased my way into being one of the guinea pigs in this test.

 

[astjp2]

well from an ass standpoint the DDB's I put in the LJ make the rear end way tighter than the OEM bushings did, I dont feel the back ending wanting to sway and when I accelerate it feels much more solid of a platform.

 

[mrblaine]

I would put my 2 cents on the spring debate but most will ignore me...but there is a simple formula based on wire size, coil diameter and the number of coils to determine rate. iIt is really accurate. But that one also lacks data, no one has taken the time to actually measure the spring rates, I have the scales that can go to 1500# and I would work someone if they want to build a fixture to measure the rates. I have the steel but I would rather figure out my death wobble problem...Want to come over to utah and give me a hand with that?

You make too many assumptions. Guess how I know that the only progressive spring rate available is the one that comes under the rear of the TJ?

 

[astjp2]

The Beehive shape will do that, which was on the back springs.

 

[Ericshere03]

UPDATE:

1) So, Bad News... My Synergy DDB JK Axle bushings came in and the inner metal sleeve is unique and will not swap with any other M10 bushing, SO I ordered JK replacement yokes for the control arm and M12 bolts for the front axle bushings... I guess this is the cost of running discontinued platforms. Not bad at $40 a pair. These are the last bushings i need to replace (and not looking forward to it)

2) Swapped mt front Pro-Comp 2" springs with OME 933 HD Springs in the front, Ride is noticeably smoother and almost "fluffy" feeling with my 5000x shocks. reminds me of the old school OME Nitro chargers. AMAZING! I did not expect this because the rate of the pro comps are 170in/lb and the OME are 140in/lb, i didnt replace them for the rate change i needed more free length.My headlights that were properly adjusted with the Pro-Comp springs and now point way high, i didn't do any measurements but the headlights tell me that the springs provided more lift (bonus). The reason for the swap is that the Pro-Comp springs were about 2" too short for the amount of droop provided by the 2.5" Rancho 5000x shocks, the OMEs are LONGER and wont lose contact with the spring seat when fully drooped.

3) These DDB bushings are STIFF, i couldn't flex the bushing with a large screwdriver, while the stocks looks like a marshmallow when flexing with a rod. This results in more suspension energy going into the shocks/suspension. the roughness and shuddering of going over a poor road is ALL handled by the suspension now and feels quite nice and super controlled. NOTICEABLE difference from rubber. Nothing harsh, quite the opposite everything controlled and the suspension absorbs this energy instead of wiggle/shuddering as the bushings jiggle.

I can see these bushing being the future and a be-all-end-all for most of us IF IN FACT THEY LAST (Big IF), longevity is something yet to be seen as they are so new, But in the past polyurethane has been terrible, stiff, squeaks, fall apart when flexed, rip of our axle mounts, etc etc... However OEM's are embracing the bushing with factory performance parts (read that mopar JL lifts use these), so this is a good sign for reliability.

My TJ is a daily driver and lots of fun trips during the year here in AZ. I am by no means hard on my rig but it exercises quite regularly. If these indeed turn to crap in short order, Currie here I come.

 

[jjvw]

UPDATE:

1) So, Bad News... My Synergy DDB JK Axle bushings came in and the inner metal sleeve is unique and will not swap with any other M10 bushing, SO I ordered JK replacement yokes for the control arm and M12 bolts for the front axle bushings... I guess this is the cost of running discontinued platforms. Not bad at $40 a pair. These are the last bushings i need to replace (and not looking forward to it)

2) Swapped mt front Pro-Comp 2" springs with OME 933 HD Springs in the front, Ride is noticeably smoother and almost "fluffy" feeling with my 5000x shocks. reminds me of the old school OME Nitro chargers. AMAZING! I did not expect this because the rate of the pro comps are 170in/lb and the OME are 140in/lb, i didnt replace them for the rate change i needed more free length.My headlights that were properly adjusted with the Pro-Comp springs and now point way high, i didn't do any measurements but the headlights tell me that the springs provided more lift (bonus). The reason for the swap is that the Pro-Comp springs were about 2" too short for the amount of droop provided by the 2.5" Rancho 5000x shocks, the OMEs are LONGER and wont lose contact with the spring seat when fully drooped.

3) These DDB bushings are STIFF, i couldn't flex the bushing with a large screwdriver, while the stocks looks like a marshmallow when flexing with a rod. This results in more suspension energy going into the shocks/suspension. the roughness and shuddering of going over a poor road is ALL handled by the suspension now and feels quite nice and super controlled. NOTICEABLE difference from rubber. Nothing harsh, quite the opposite everything controlled and the suspension absorbs this energy instead of wiggle/shuddering as the bushings jiggle.

I can see these bushing being the future and a be-all-end-all for most of us IF IN FACT THEY LAST (Big IF), longevity is something yet to be seen as they are so new, But in the past polyurethane has been terrible, stiff, squeaks, fall apart when flexed, rip of our axle mounts, etc etc... However OEM's are embracing the bushing with factory performance parts (read that mopar JL lifts use these), so this is a good sign for reliability.

My TJ is a daily driver and lots of fun trips during the year here in AZ. I am by no means hard on my rig but it exercises quite regularly. If these indeed turn to crap in short order, Currie here I come.

The ride height changed, which changed the behavior of the shocks. I am not saying you aren't feeling a difference, but how do you know what contributed to this change in what you feel?

 

[Ericshere03]

Because the behavior of the shock doesn’t change with respect to its position in its stroke. Unless they’re bypass shocks and at $40 a pop, I promise you these 5000x are the furthest thing from a bypass shock.

 

[Ericshere03]

The ride height changed, which changed the behavior of the shocks. I am not saying you aren't feeling a difference, but how do you know what contributed to this change in what you feel?

Because the behavior of the shock doesn’t change with respect to its position in its stroke. Unless they’re bypass shocks and at $40 a pop, I promise you these 5000x are the furthest thing from a bypass shock.

 

[jjvw]

Because the behavior of the shock doesn’t change with respect to its position in its stroke. Unless they’re bypass shocks and at $40 a pop, I promise you these 5000x are the furthest thing from a bypass shock.

How much did the ride height change? How much was the up/down travel measurement before and after the coil switch? How far away were the jounces from ride height?

 

[Ericshere03]

How much did the ride height change? How much was the up travel measurement before and after the coil switch?

I see where you are going with this, the amount wasn’t substantial enough where compression was an issue ... like I said, I didn’t measure. I’d be surprised if the delta was 1/2”. I can say that now I have 4.5” of uptravel. Axle was fully cycled and bumpstops were adjusted to max compression plus .5” buffer.

 

[Fargo]

UPDATE:

1) So, Bad News... My Synergy DDB JK Axle bushings came in and the inner metal sleeve is unique and will not swap with any other M10 bushing, SO I ordered JK replacement yokes for the control arm and M12 bolts for the front axle bushings... I guess this is the cost of running discontinued platforms. Not bad at $40 a pair. These are the last bushings i need to replace (and not looking forward to it)

Bummer. Guess I will be drilling out my Rancho arms. I don't like doing that. But I guess its easy enough to purchase new arms and bushings again, if I feel I need to return to a smaller stock bolt for some strange reason.

2) Swapped mt front Pro-Comp 2" springs with OME 933 HD Springs in the front, Ride is noticeably smoother and almost "fluffy" feeling with my 5000x shocks. reminds me of the old school OME Nitro chargers. AMAZING! I did not expect this because the rate of the pro comps are 170in/lb and the OME are 140in/lb, i didnt replace them for the rate change i needed more free length.My headlights that were properly adjusted with the Pro-Comp springs and now point way high, i didn't do any measurements but the headlights tell me that the springs provided more lift (bonus). The reason for the swap is that the Pro-Comp springs were about 2" too short for the amount of droop provided by the 2.5" Rancho 5000x shocks, the OMEs are LONGER and wont lose contact with the spring seat when fully drooped.

Interesting. Could you add your comments to the shock matching springs threads?

3) These DDB bushings are STIFF, i couldn't flex the bushing with a large screwdriver, while the stocks looks like a marshmallow when flexing with a rod. This results in more suspension energy going into the shocks/suspension. the roughness and shuddering of going over a poor road is ALL handled by the suspension now and feels quite nice and super controlled. NOTICEABLE difference from rubber. Nothing harsh, quite the opposite everything controlled and the suspension absorbs this energy instead of wiggle/shuddering as the bushings jiggle.

I noticed my Rancho D2s were quite stiff as well. I can't compare to stock yet, since I haven't pulled them out yet. Your ride and control improvement is what I am hoping for.

I can see these bushing being the future and a be-all-end-all for most of us IF IN FACT THEY LAST (Big IF), longevity is something yet to be seen as they are so new, But in the past polyurethane has been terrible, stiff, squeaks, fall apart when flexed, rip of our axle mounts, etc etc... However OEM's are embracing the bushing with factory performance parts (read that mopar JL lifts use these), so this is a good sign for reliability.

My TJ is a daily driver and lots of fun trips during the year here in AZ. I am by no means hard on my rig but it exercises quite regularly. If these indeed turn to crap in short order, Currie here I come.

I agree with everything here. The fact that Mopar uses a DDB on the JL lift arms and Old Man Emu uses DDB on their JK arms gives me some confidence they will perform well for a long time.[/QUOTE]

 

[Fargo]

Because the behavior of the shock doesn’t change with respect to its position in its stroke. ...

Thats what I always thought too. So I am always confused when people say the ride improvement is better because of the shocks position in the stroke. That really seems irrelevant to me... Unless you are bottoming out on shock extension or hitting the bumpstops. But apart from that, I don't see where position within the stroke is relevant. (With the exception of the new JL factory shocks which DO have some new tech that adjust the shock for position within the stroke.)

How much did the ride height change? How much was the up/down travel measurement before and after the coil switch? How far away were the jounces from ride height?

I think I see where you are going as well. Which is the only reason I could see height making any difference.

 

[Fargo]

UPDATE:

1) So, Bad News... My Synergy DDB JK Axle bushings came in and the inner metal sleeve is unique and will not swap with any other M10 bushing, SO I ordered JK replacement yokes for the control arm and M12 bolts for the front axle bushings... I guess this is the cost of running discontinued platforms. Not bad at $40 a pair. These are the last bushings i need to replace (and not looking forward to it)

So I called Synergy today to order the JK bushings. The tech I spoke with was pretty adamant that this would not work. He said the TJ bushing is a step style bushing but the JK bushing was not. He said the bushing would not fit properly in the factory housing. Did you notice any issues with that? I am prepared to drill out the holes in my new control arms if the bushing will work in the factory location. But now I have concerns about even getting the bushing to fit the mounts. I started a thread on this. Any info you can help with is appreciated.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...ont-upper-control-arm-axle.22712/#post-367402

EDIT: Where did you get your bushings and bolts from?

 

[Ericshere03]

So I called Synergy today to order the JK bushings. The tech I spoke with was pretty adamant that this would not work. He said the TJ bushing is a step style bushing but the JK bushing was not. He said the bushing would not fit properly in the factory housing. Did you notice any issues with that? I am prepared to drill out the holes in my new control arms if the bushing will work in the factory location. But now I have concerns about even getting the bushing to fit the mounts. I started a thread on this. Any info you can help with is appreciated.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...ont-upper-control-arm-axle.22712/#post-367402

The tech I spoke with told me it WOULD work, and after receiving the bushings there is indeed a “step” , the shell looks like a regular factory bushing ... I will probably install them sometime this week. Stay tuned

 

[Fargo]

The tech I spoke with told me it WOULD work, and after receiving the bushings there is indeed a “step” , the shell looks like a regular factory bushing ... I will probably install them sometime this week. Stay tuned

OK that sounds good then. Thats what I was told in the past as well. Keep us informed.

Where did you order yours from? The price on Synergy was $50. Which bolts did you get.

 

[Ericshere03]

Bushings came from Synergy Directly. I got the JK M12 Yokes from them as well. Bolts I will use factory JK bolts that I had laying around, they also a little wider too, which is good because the TJ M10 bolts are TOO SHORT for the Synergy Forged (black) control arm yikes.

 

[Fargo]

Bushings came from Synergy Directly. I got the JK M12 Yokes from them as well. Bolts I will use factory JK bolts that I had laying around, they also a little wider too, which is good because the TJ M10 bolts are TOO SHORT for the Synergy Forged (black) control arm yikes.

Weird, their website shows $20 but it changes to $25 when I add them to my cart.
What number did you order?

 

[Ericshere03]

4326-02 is the part number for the Synergy Axle Bushing

 

[Fargo]

4326-02 is the part number for the Synergy Axle Bushing

OK, Thats the number I had too. Thanks. Weird that you got it for $20 when the website shows me $25.

Keep us updated when you get them installed.