Highline or Lift?

[Jerry Bransford]

@Jerry Bransford is your Red jeep on coils or does it have a spring and shock suspension?

That was my previous TJ and it had a very conventional spring and shock suspension. It was actually a very crappy suspension, that photo and the below pic was taken in 2003 on the same trail the same day even before I had anything with Currie's name on it. It was very likely the kludge suspension I had about that time with Rock Krawler 5.5" springs, Teraflex 1st generation control arms, Doetsch Tech DT-3000 shocks, and that was about it. If anything it had an extra-high COG due to its 5.5" suspension I am fairly certain I was running at that time. All the clearance I had on top of those 35" tires reassures me it was the RK 5.5" springs I was running for a year or so before converting to the Rubicon Express suspension lift... another bad choice.

 

[toximus]

What do you think the limitation for the red LJ is?

A bit of speculation since I haven't wheeled 99% of the trails in the US... Although I'm working on checking them off.

I think my limitations come down to that it's not purpose built for a single area and not a buggy.

Specifically, my tires aren't stickies and I have no plans to since I enjoy driving my Jeep on the road to the trail even if that means it's days away. I have as small of fender flares as I can get away with because I live and wheel where there's dirt but they still get in the way on some trails. I have "only" a 4" lift so I am limited in how deep of water I can cross (and I've gone in water where the hood goes under). I don't have rear steer (which would also be a compromise in some places). I don't have enough horse power for some loose hill climbs which require "paddling" through dirt while climbing (think southern bounty hills). I have made some choices to keep my sanity when maintaining my Jeep and I didn't want "very slightly better" in exchange for overly complex and time consuming maintenance.

 

[High Octane]

Too be honest, I don't know how much of this discussion has any real impact to my situation, but I find it interesting.
Carry on.

 

[Honeybadger]

Interesting discussion for sure. Isn't suspension articulation the most important factor for stability in off camber situations? And lift geometry for the vertical climbs enabling proper anti-squat values preventing the front end lift?

 

[JMT]

I'm one of the last remaining people who still likes the idea of LCOG. This is my thinking (whether it is right or wrong, I don't know).

I'm definitely not a fan of slamming too big of tires on with too small of a lift. I want up travel so I can cruise around comfortably, whether that be on-road or off-road. But at the same time, I value being able to point my Jeep at a very steep climb without worrying about rolling over backwards. When I think about a good LCOG build, I usually think something along the lines of 37's, 2.5" - 3" lift, 1.25" BL, relocated shock mounts, 100" WB, and highlines. Something like this is eventually where I'd like my Jeep to be. What up-travel numbers I'm going to get out of that, I have no clue. But I don't think that build philosophy is going to cause too many compromises.

At the end of the day, I think what up travel numbers and COG you're shooting for really depends on what you want to do with the Jeep. If I wanted to race through the desert, I'd be maximizing my up travel and looking at 8"+ if I was getting serious about it. But for what I like to do, slow crawling and steep / off-camber obstacles, I think a lower Jeep is better.

Some of my ideas on this come from comparing apples to oranges. I've attached a photo and a video of the buggy I was able to drive in Moab a few years ago. I've never driven a vehicle off-road that seemed so stable. You could point this thing at pretty much anything and it would crawl right up with no drama (no hopping, no feeling the front end getting light, nothing). There was one climb on Poison Spyder where a TJ with a 5.5" long arm almost ended up rolling over and was saved by the tire carrier. I drove this buggy right up with absolutely no problems what-so-ever. Whether it is possible to get buggy-like performance out of a TJ, I'm not sure. But I would like to get as close as humanely possible.

The buggy is pretty low when considering it is sitting on 42's. It is also a lot wider and a lot longer than a TJ. I know I am comparing two COMPLETELY different things, but I still think there is something to be learned.


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The orange rig you posted up moved the body out of the way of the travel. There is also a lift for sure, but moving the body out of the way is one way to maintain up travel.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

The orange rig you posted up moved the body out of the way of the travel. There is also a lift for sure, but moving the body out of the way is one way to maintain up travel.

The orange rig I posted is also 0% Jeep. It’s a complete custom chassis along with everything else. It is low compared to what it would be if it were built on a TJ platform. I’m comparing apples to oranges here, but I would like to have “orange rig” performance out of my TJ if at all possible.

 

[JMT]

The orange rig I posted is also 0% Jeep. It’s a complete custom chassis along with everything else. It is low compared to what it would be if it were built on a TJ platform. I’m comparing apples to oranges here, but I would like to have “orange rig” performance out of my TJ if at all possible.

Still, it’s just a lot of cutting on a TJ tub, right with wider axles. I’ve seen a CJ narrowed. That was the best way I’ve seen yet to maintain the Jeep tub, preserve the up travel and basically be a buggy.

 

[jodomcfrodo]

Still, it’s just a lot of cutting on a TJ tub, right with wider axles. I’ve seen a CJ narrowed. That was the best way I’ve seen yet to maintain the Jeep tub, preserve the up travel and basically be a buggy.
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If you’re asking about the orange rig, it isn’t any Jeep body at all. It is a custom body with a Jeep tailgate. The grill isn’t even from Jeep. The only Jeep on the thing is a CJ tailgate if I remember correctly.

I don’t think you’d be able to achieve what the orange rig has if you started with a TJ tub or a TJ frame.

 

[JMT]

If you’re asking about the orange rig, it isn’t any Jeep body at all. It is a custom body with a Jeep tailgate. The grill isn’t even from Jeep. The only Jeep on the thing is a CJ tailgate if I remember correctly.

I don’t think you’d be able to achieve what the orange rig has if you started with a TJ tub or a TJ frame.

I wasn’t asking anything, I understand what you’re saying about the orange rig. I was just saying that the rig I posted above is about as close as you can stay to a Jeep and near the capability of a buggy. In other words, if you wanted to do something like the orange rig but keep your rig like a Jeep, you could aim for something like the pic above.