How to install winch safety thimble?

Looks like this is it, but it says currently unavailable:
https://www.4lowparts.com/shop/winches-and-recovery-gear/safety-thimble-winchline-fairlead-bundle/

Maybe @Garza will chime in again...

The packages are in stock, I just did a small revision to the TRE standard logo fairleads (which aren't ready/in stock just yet) but I do have standard NON-TRE logo black ones in stock! For anyone on the fence considering the Safety Fairlead, PM or email me and I'll make you a special deal!

Thanks,
RG
 
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We should start some sort of contest to give away a free safety thimble and fairlead. I could combine that contest with the Facebook ads I'm running and probably bring a ton of new members in!
 
Speaking of Ricky, my stuff just got here today (thanks Ricky) going to install all this stuff and do a nice write-up on it.

So glad I went with the safety thimble instead of the Factor 55 one!

BTW thanks for all the extra stuff Ricky!
 
Speaking of Ricky, my stuff just got here today (thanks Ricky) going to install all this stuff and do a nice write-up on it.

So glad I went with the safety thimble instead of the Factor 55 one!

BTW thanks for all the extra stuff Ricky!

One thing I would like to stress is the ease in which the splicing can be done and how invaluable that skill will be later on if you encounter someone with a problem on the trail. My position when it comes to products is to educate the customer so they have those tools to use which make them smarter and more savvy on the trail. I absolutely abhor treating customers like they aren't smart enough to learn a very simple skill that does nothing but enhance their trail knowledge.

Once you spend 10 minutes and learn the basics of a buried tail eye splice, you can use that to do a loop in a line, splice a thimble on, or even do a buried tail line splice to permanently repair a broken rope. Beware all the overstated cautions about the lock stitch. Spend a few minutes playing with the thimble after you get it spliced. Hook it to something pretty solid and set the splice with the winch. Once you do that, release the tension and then go back and try to undo your splice. You'll be amazed at how locked in it is which negates the lock stitch. The lock stitch is pretty much for vandalism (someone messing with your stuff) and shipping from the vendor. Once it's loaded in a recovery pull, there is no way for it to slip.

Looking forward to how hard or easy you find the splicing to be. Hopefully Mr. Garza sent you a splicing fid.

If you treat your customers like idiots, all you wind up with is idiots for customers. ;)
 
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One thing I would like to stress is the ease in which the splicing can be done and how invaluable that skill will be later on if you encounter someone with a problem on the trail. My position when it comes to products is to educate the customer so they have those tools to use which make them smarter and more savvy on the trail. I absolutely abhor treating customers like they aren't smart enough to learn a very simple skill that does nothing but enhance their trail knowledge.

Once you spend 10 minutes and learn the basics of a buried tail eye splice, you can use that to do a loop in a line, splice a thimble on, or even do a buried tail line splice to permanently repair a broken rope. Beware all the overstated cautions about the lock stitch. Spend a few minutes playing with the thimble after you get it spliced. Hook it to something pretty solid and set the splice with the winch. Once you do that, release the tension and then go back and try to undo your splice. You'll be amazed at how locked in it is which negates the lock stitch. The lock stitch is pretty much for vandalism (someone messing with your stuff) and shipping from the vendor. Once it's loaded in a recovery pull, there is no way for it to slip.

Looking forward to how hard or easy you find the splicing to be. Hopefully Mr. Garza sent you a splicing fid.

If you treat your customers like idiots, all you wind up with is idiots for customers. ;)

Makes my day to hear something like this. Most people who put out a product could care less about educating the customers. I haven't the slightest clue how to do a buried tail eye splice. Can you recommend a good website or video for how to learn? I'm going to have to install this safety thimble this weekend but I haven't the slightest clue how to do this splice.

Ricky did include two splicing fids, but of course I don't even know what these are for or how to use them so hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

I have to admit it makes me apprehensive thinking about something like a splice holding thousands of pounds of weight. However, it's obviously tried and tested so I'm not worried about it at all.

BTW, here's a picture of my package all laid out. I have to admit, the hat and shirt might be my favs ;)

IMG_4662.JPG


Also, what is this for? Does it cover the safety thimble while it's on the vehicle? If so, I assume this has to be installed at the time of splicing it otherwise there's no other way to get it on?

IMG_4663.JPG
 
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Makes my day to hear something like this. Most people who put out a product could care less about educating the customers. I haven't the slightest clue how to do a buried tail eye splice. Can you recommend a good website or video for how to learn? I'm going to have to install this safety thimble this weekend but I haven't the slightest clue how to do this splice.

Ricky did include two splicing fids, but of course I don't even know what these are for or how to use them so hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

I have to admit it makes me apprehensive thinking about something like a splice holding thousands of pounds of weight. However, it's obviously tried and tested so I'm not worried about it at all.

BTW, here's a picture of my package all laid out. I have to admit, the hat and shirt might be my favs ;)

View attachment 548

Also, what is this for? Does it cover the safety thimble while it's on the vehicle? If so, I assume this has to be installed at the time of splicing it otherwise there's no other way to get it on?

View attachment 549
Samson's website has a good technical section. Look for 12 strand eye splice. There are a couple of simple things to keep in mind. First and most important is the length of the buried tail. Second is push the fid further along inside the tubular rope before you bring it out to daylight and remove the fid. That extra bit of length makes it easier to milk the tail back inside. After that, it is stupid easy to do.

That "cover" looks suspiciously like some sort of thermal outerwear for an adult beverage. ;)

The way I attach the fid is to take the tapered tail and push it inside the hollow. Secure it in place with a couple wrap of electrical tape and you're golden.
 
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Samson's website has a good technical section. Look for 12 strand eye splice. There are a couple of simple things to keep in mind. First and most important is the length of the buried tail. Second is push the fid further along inside the tubular rope before you bring it out to daylight and remove the fid. That extra bit of length makes it easier to milk the tail back inside. After that, it is stupid easy to do.

That "cover" looks suspiciously like some sort of thermal outerwear for an adult beverage. ;)

The way I attach the fid is to take the tapered tail and push it inside the hollow. Secure it in place with a couple wrap of electrical tape and you're golden.

Holy crap... didn't realize that was a can cover. The TRE safety thimble was inside of it so I thought it was a cover for the thimble, haha.

Okay, is the attached PDF a good guide? If so... This looks like pretty complicated! Will it work on my Warn synthetic rope? Not sure if it's 12 strand or not, it's the one that came with my M8000-S winch.
 

Attachments

  • 12Strand_C2_Tuck_Bury_Eye_Splice_HMPE_WEB.pdf
    1.8 MB · Views: 520
Okay, I'm confused about what class of synthetic rope I have on my Warn M8000-S (it's the stock rope).

Is it Class I, Class II, etc.?

Also, since my Warn rope already has the metal eyelet on it (for the hook to attach to) how do I remove that? Do I just cut it off and start over with the rope like it's a brand new rope in this video below?

 
Okay, I'm confused about what class of synthetic rope I have on my Warn M8000-S (it's the stock rope).

Is it Class I, Class II, etc.?

Also, since my Warn rope already has the metal eyelet on it (for the hook to attach to) how do I remove that? Do I just cut it off and start over with the rope like it's a brand new rope in this video below?


Not sure what splice Warn uses so some cutting may be in order if it is a locked Brummel where they have passed the line through itself which necessitates unhooking the line from the drum and feeding that end all the way though the splice at the eye. If that's the case, cut it and then duplicate the taper.

As for the splice, as luck would have it, this is the first hit on the search. Read it carefully. I've never seen it before but it makes many of the same points I've been making and for the same exact reasons. You don't need the whipping at the throat so disregard that part. I can't express how happy I am with this link. Simple, easy, animated, and visual.

http://www.animatedknots.com/longbury/

Pay attention to the explanation of what a fid length is and how to calculate the length of the tail for the bury. It breaks it down in easy simple to understand terms that will get you going.
 
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Damn, okay that link made it A LOT easier than all of the other links I was viewing.

I looked at my Warn rope and it is a double Brummel where the line has been passed through itself. It's obvious to undo it I would have to remove the entire winch line from the drum so I am definitely going to cut it and start fresh.

By getting rid of the locked Brummel that came on the Warn rope and replacing it with this long bury splice, am I losing or sacrificing any rope strength or creating any weak points? Just not sure if there's an advantage to the locked Brummel vs the long bury splice?

It's pretty hard to imagine (to me at least) that by simple burying the end of the rope inside of itself that that can somehow pull up to 8000 lbs...

You would think Warn would just install these safety thimbles by default!
 
Damn, okay that link made it A LOT easier than all of the other links I was viewing.

Yes, the only difference is you are pushing the fid through the expanded rope instead of pulling it with that tool.

I looked at my Warn rope and it is a double Brummel where the line has been passed through itself. It's obvious to undo it I would have to remove the entire winch line from the drum so I am definitely going to cut it and start fresh.

By getting rid of the locked Brummel that came on the Warn rope and replacing it with this long bury splice, am I losing or sacrificing any rope strength or creating any weak points? Just not sure if there's an advantage to the locked Brummel vs the long bury splice?

It's pretty hard to imagine (to me at least) that by simple burying the end of the rope inside of itself that that can somehow pull up to 8000 lbs...

Here, from the site- Locking: The Locked Brummel provides stability, just like the stitching. However, it adds no strength. How could it? The Long Bury technique achieves about 100% of the breaking strain. Nevertheless, many riggers, climbers, and arborists, routinely use the Locked version. It is a quick and reliable way to lock the splice together in the right position.

It is like finger cuffs, the harder the pull the harder the rope grips itself. That and the part about locking is moot which you will discover once you load the thimble and then try to take apart the splice.


You would think Warn would just install these safety thimbles by default!

I suspect if they do anything, they will just make a version of it far enough removed to not involve us. Another company did the same thing. I sent them samples early on in the life of the thimble, I was rebuffed and told it would never sell. After too many customers bought them and shipped them in to have spliced onto their lines, they copied it after making changes that only added cost.
 
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Thanks for all your expert input Blaine, it comes much appreciated. I've been looking at all these knot websites and I swear, you could spend days and months researching the different kind of knots and now to do them. Very cool stuff!

The whole finger cuff thing makes perfect sense. I am going to install the thimble today and put my knot skills to the test. This will be so much better then my Warn hook. Another annoying thing about the hook is it's hanging off my front bumper attached to one of the hanging D-rings. The safety thimble will be nice because it won't be hanging there and will instead be nice and flush with the bumper (mostly).

So odd because you would think you could license a product like this to Warn with great success. I think the problem is that most people aren't educated on the product enough to know the real advantages this thing has over a standard hook. Heck, even I had no idea until I started doing the research.
 
For those who aren't aware of this, Mrblaine is an expert in all things related to the Safety Thimble because he is the original developer/inventor of the Safety Thimble. :)
 
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At first I wasn't sure what the benefit of a safety thimble was, but after doing the research it's very apparent the advantages is has over a standard hook. With the price of the TRE safety thimble it seems like this should be a no brainer upgrade for anyone using a winch.
 
Not sure what splice Warn uses so some cutting may be in order if it is a locked Brummel where they have passed the line through itself which necessitates unhooking the line from the drum and feeding that end all the way though the splice at the eye. If that's the case, cut it and then duplicate the taper.

As for the splice, as luck would have it, this is the first hit on the search. Read it carefully. I've never seen it before but it makes many of the same points I've been making and for the same exact reasons. You don't need the whipping at the throat so disregard that part. I can't express how happy I am with this link. Simple, easy, animated, and visual.

http://www.animatedknots.com/longbury/

Pay attention to the explanation of what a fid length is and how to calculate the length of the tail for the bury. It breaks it down in easy simple to understand terms that will get you going.
Great video. It's been too many years since I last spliced a winch rope together around my Safety Thimble so it will extremely helpful. I'm cutting 10-15' off the front of my winch rope today to get rid of the badly worn/frayed areas that started worrying me last weekend while in use in the desert.

One area I'd like to confirm is the length of the bury. For Dyneema/Amsteel/Spectra, it says 72x the rope diameter. For a 3/8" rope that equals 27". That's a lot longer tail length than I have every buried on the couple Safety Thimbles I've attached to 3/8" synthetic rope. What say you @mrblaine on that buried tail length?

This is what I'm referring to, it's located under the animation...
  • Length of bury: Both Brion Toss and Starzinger recommend that the length of the buried tail should be 72 times the rope's diameter. This is about three and a half full fid lengths (a full length fid is 21 times the rope's diameter.) The very slippery Spectra and Dyneema require this long bury. However, for Polyester, about half this length is sufficient.
 
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