HP Dana 30 re-gear - pinion preload changed

[Mike_in_Riga]

Wish I could find a HP30 that easily for that price over here!

Just curious, are you Latvian with awesome English, or a 'murican living abroad?

Maybe I got lucky! My Dana 44 Rear out of a TJ was about $1800 and had to be shipped from Finland. It was the only one I could find in Europe after googling that part for sale in all languages...

TBH the HP30 axle shaft and all joints were rusted beyond repair, maybe that justifies the price. I did not care much, as I ordered all new parts from Revolution, and was only after the axle case itself. Knuckles got sandblasted and Zinc plated.

Thanks man! I'm Latvian who spent half of life in the UK, now back in Latvia

 

[hosejockey61]

• Next time I would use the exact same brand of the setup bearing as the final bearing, not just the same bearing by part number (okay, this one was on me, I ordered kits from Revolution Gear, and they said all bearings were Timken, but the inner pinion one they sent was Koyo [also great bearings from what I have read]. At this point, I already had Timken set up race, and thought to go with it. Seems like this may have contributed to the problem described in this thread). I know, I know... but the tolerances should be been really tight across all manufacturers
  

A lot of manufacturers, including RG&A are sourcing what they can and putting whatever they can find in the box to get it out the door. Timken and Koyo both are good bearings, but yeah, try to use the same for setup for best results.

• I also bought a case spreader from ebay.de (you will probably find one in the UK). I know Mike's doing everything without it, but after reading "you must use case spreader" in bold capital letters on the ARB locker install instructions my OCD kicked in. I actually don't regret it - it works pretty well, and less hassle with hammering the locker in and out during the setup.

A good case spreader can certainly help, especially with an ARB. I have old ARB seal housings that I removed the copper lines from to use as setup so the lines aren't in the way. Then I verify final setup.

• I did not have race driving tools, but combinations of various old races and bearings lying around the shop worked okay for me; 2-jaw bearing puller, however, was a "must" for me, as the yolk was sitting REALLY tight on the new pinion, even after cleaning and polishing the inner contact surface of the yolk. Could not take it off without the bearing puller + significant effort.

Way to think outside the box using an old race. Improvise, adapt, overcome! As far as the yoke, I use a large punch and hammer the pinion out. There is a recess on the end of the pinion for the punch to go. Be sure to thread a nut on a turn or two to keep the pinion from flying out.

• I have welded a stand for the axle, and a tool to push in carrier seals (basically a threaded rod + 2 nuts + a few washers, mimicking this one). These helped a lot, and the latter is indispensable,

My first axle stand was a few 4x4 wood blocks notched out. Whatever works!

Strong work by the way!

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

A lot of manufacturers, including RG&A are sourcing what they can and putting whatever they can find in the box to get it out the door. Timken and Koyo both are good bearings, but yeah, try to use the same for setup for best results.



A good case spreader can certainly help, especially with an ARB. I have old ARB seal housings that I removed the copper lines from to use as setup so the lines aren't in the way. Then I verify final setup.



Way to think outside the box using an old race. Improvise, adapt, overcome! As far as the yoke, I use a large punch and hammer the pinion out. There is a recess on the end of the pinion for the punch to go. Be sure to thread a nut on a turn or two to keep the pinion from flying out.



My first axle stand was a few 4x4 wood blocks notched out. Whatever works!

Strong work by the way!

Thank you for all the input @hosejockey61 !

 

[UKTJ]

@Mike_in_Riga and @hosejockey61 a fairly basic question for you, but I wouldn't want to mess this up as parts are being shipped to the UK. For a HP Dana30 out of a Cherokee in the front and a stock TJ Dana44 (Non-Rubicon) in the rear, should I order this gear set from Revolution?

The HP Dana30 I am potentially getting is actually from a 1999 Cherokee, but on the revolution site beyond 1996 the gear sets all seem to come with a rear Dana35 or 8.24 axle. I am presuming there were no material changes to the Dana30 in the front, just that the Dana44 was not fitted in the rear after 1996. Also, that the Dana 44 in the back of a 96 and earlier Cherokee is the same as my 2002 TJ.

I did use the Revolution contact page to ask the same question, but haven't had any reply. Any input much appreciated.

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

@Mike_in_Riga and @hosejockey61 a fairly basic question for you, but I wouldn't want to mess this up as parts are being shipped to the UK. For a HP Dana30 out of a Cherokee in the front and a stock TJ Dana44 (Non-Rubicon) in the rear, should I order this gear set from Revolution?

The HP Dana30 I am potentially getting is actually from a 1999 Cherokee, but on the revolution site beyond 1996 the gear sets all seem to come with a rear Dana35 or 8.24 axle. I am presuming there were no material changes to the Dana30 in the front, just that the Dana44 was not fitted in the rear after 1996. Also, that the Dana 44 in the back of a 96 and earlier Cherokee is the same as my 2002 TJ.

I did use the Revolution contact page to ask the same question, but haven't had any reply. Any input much appreciated.

Hey!

So I called Revolution before ordering my parts to discuss exactly that. Basically, you are creating a hybrid vehicle with a HP30 in the front which needs reverse-cut gears, and a low-pinion Dana 44 in the back which needs standard-cut gears. That is not being offered as a front+rear package. Instead, I ordered 2 items separately: gears for HP30 for Cherokee, and gears for TJ rear Dana 44. +master rehaul kits for the two. I did not compare the price to the package, but I think it's ballpark the same. (Note I did not order online, instead over the phone person from Revolution created an order after I explained all my requirements).

Also, the rear Dana 44 ring gear I ordered is something called "thick double-cut gear". I think this is due to the ARB RD117 locker I am installing in there, which I think has a different placement of the lip against which the ring gear sits, and b) has slightly smaller ring gear bolts (only 3/8 bolts [like in the Dana 30] that fit RD117 locker, not the 7/16 bolts that I understand usually go with the Dana 44 gear]. So that gear has actually two sets of holes - 7/16 and 3/8 - hence the "double-cut" (I think). But I *believe* this is only due to my choice of the locker - your situation may differ. So this paragraph is my best understanding (aside from point (b) which I did confirm by trial and error), so it's best to spear to Revolution and explain your exact situation in as much detail as reasonably possible.

I am 99.5% sure what I ordered is the right thing, so far gears did fit both lockers, and at least the front is almost assembled; but please remember, I don't actually have everything fully installed yet, with all the wheels rotating in the right direction .

Finally, I never wrote to Revolution, but I did call them, and they were super helpful. I dealt with a fella called Mike Torelli, and after my initial call, we exchanged Whatsapp numbers, and continued our conversation there, where he basically answered all my questions, and put together a kit consisting of the 4 team instead of a kit (front R&P, rear R&P, front overhaul, rear overhaul). Here is my list of items with their codes, but I strongly suggest you give them a call beforehand anyway:

Also, if you are booking a shipment, here are the box weights & sizes provided to me by Revolution which I used for the shipment booking (note, I also had locker & chomoly front+rear shafts as part of my shipment). Your items may be packaged differently, but Revolution will probably be able to confirm.

"
4 boxes total
32 lbs
45 lbs
40 lbs
30 lbs

2 axle kits are 36 x 9 x 10
RD117 should be 12 x 12 x 12
The remaining parts should be in a 19 x 15 x 13"

 

[hosejockey61]

@UKTJ and @Mike_in_Riga

Mike is correct. You will have to order the gears separately. The BEST thing to do is call them (or WhatsApp) and discuss your needs. They are SUPER helpful.

Regarding the rear axle, the reason Mike had to go with thick cut gears is because the ARB RD117 is for the smaller carrier break. The RD116 would account for the carrier break and this only require normal cut gears.

If you decide to put a locker in the front HP30, be sure to get the correct carrier or locker as they don't make thick cut gears in reverse rotation. I learned that the hard way.

Bottom line.... CALL revolution gear and axle and discuss your needs.

 

[UKTJ]

@Mike_in_Riga and @hosejockey61 thanks both for the helpful replies. There is now a UK agent for Revolution, but they only seem to stock the pre-set packages of front and rear. To be fair to the UK agent the prices they quote are not much more than buying from Revolution I. The US and then using a company that ships stuff over to the UK in containers. When I am closer to pushing the button I will give Revolution a call and determine exactly what I need and ask them if it is best for them to ship it internally in the US or for it to be supplied via their UK agent.

I am now curious as to what the difference is between the Dana44 in a Cherokee and the one in a TJ.

 

[Longwhitejeep]

Seconded on calling Revolution to verify your items . They are super helpful.

FWIW with my rd109 and rd104 ARB'S, Revolution confirmed the yj/xj kit for a hpd30, Dana 44 rear will work for my application. Both are 3.73 and up or 3.92 and up carrier breaks, standard thickness sets.

Their websites lists all the vehicle applications as well if you go into the individual gear production info, not the packages.

Now I just need time to tear into it all.

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

@Mike_in_Riga and @hosejockey61 thanks both for the helpful replies. There is now a UK agent for Revolution, but they only seem to stock the pre-set packages of front and rear. To be fair to the UK agent the prices they quote are not much more than buying from Revolution I. The US and then using a company that ships stuff over to the UK in containers. When I am closer to pushing the button I will give Revolution a call and determine exactly what I need and ask them if it is best for them to ship it internally in the US or for it to be supplied via their UK agent.

I am now curious as to what the difference is between the Dana44 in a Cherokee and the one in a TJ.

So what put me off a Cherokee Dana 44 is this thread. I think it's aluminium, which I guess some people are not fans of. But I never dove deeper into the research to understand pros and cons. Also not sure if it's a direct bolt on..

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

@Mike_in_Riga and @hosejockey61 thanks both for the helpful replies. There is now a UK agent for Revolution, but they only seem to stock the pre-set packages of front and rear. To be fair to the UK agent the prices they quote are not much more than buying from Revolution I. The US and then using a company that ships stuff over to the UK in containers. When I am closer to pushing the button I will give Revolution a call and determine exactly what I need and ask them if it is best for them to ship it internally in the US or for it to be supplied via their UK agent.

I am now curious as to what the difference is between the Dana44 in a Cherokee and the one in a TJ.

Also, when (if) choosing carrier / locker - don't forget about spline count! I almost did that with my ARB. I think Dana 30 come with either 27 spline or 30 spline; and I think Dana 44 come with 30 spline or 35(?) spline. They are different thickness shafts with different spline counts, and your carriers/lockers will need to match that.

 

[Longwhitejeep]

So what put me off a Cherokee Dana 44 is this thread. I think it's aluminium, which I guess some people are not fans of. But I never dove deeper into the research to understand pros and cons. Also not sure if it's a direct bolt on..

That's about a d44a though from a grand cherokee/ zj. It's a different axle entirely. Best advice is to call like has been previously mentioned. You can also check the part out individually on Revolution's page, the fitment tab lists all the vehicles that a particular gear set would fit or interchangeability.


https://www.revolutiongear.com/product/dana_44_355_589_ratio_gear_sets

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

That's about a d44a though from a grand cherokee/ zj. It's a different axle entirely. Best advice is to call like has been previously mentioned. You can also check the part out individually on Revolution's page, the fitment tab lists all the vehicles that a particular gear set would fit or interchangeability.


https://www.revolutiongear.com/product/dana_44_355_589_ratio_gear_sets

You're right, apologies for misinformation on the aluminium Axle. But I doubt it's a bolt on, as cherokee is leaf springs and TJ is coils. But yes, definitely call Revolution

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

Could I get a quick opinion on the pattern please? @Blackjack @hosejockey61

 

[hosejockey61]

I would say it looks very close but possibly still just a touch shallow. Write this combination down so you can com back to it if necessary. Then I would add 1-2 thou and run it again... If it doesn't look as good then you can always come back to this. My guess is 1 thou will be perfect.

Shops that do this regularly would send your current pattern out the door with no issue.

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

Thank you very much @hosejockey61 and sorry to keep bothering you. Below is +2 thou to the one above, I think I will stick with this newest one.

 

[hosejockey61]

Run it

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

Thanks!

Run it

Final hiccup - pinion preload. Revolution master rehaul kit came with only a few pinion preload shims. Basically I can only adjust in increments of 4 thou.

At the moment the closest value that gets me under the 16-20 inlb range gives me 12 inlb. Next larger shim pack combo gets me running at 30 inlb. I am inclined to run the one with 30 inlb, as from what I have read, new bearing when installed may (or "can", or "should"?) have slightly higher preload.

But I am happy to take advice of more experienced folks.

 

[UKTJ]

Great work @Mike_in_Riga !

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

Great work @Mike_in_Riga !

Could have not done without all the help from the folks!

 

[Mike_in_Riga]

Thanks!


Final hiccup - pinion preload. Revolution master rehaul kit came with only a few pinion preload shims. Basically I can only adjust in increments of 4 thou.

At the moment the closest value that gets me under the 16-20 inlb range gives me 12 inlb. Next larger shim pack combo gets me running at 30 inlb. I am inclined to run the one with 30 inlb, as from what I have read, new bearing when installed may (or "can", or "should"?) have slightly higher preload.

But I am happy to take advice of more experienced folks.

Scrap that. Tightening the nut a bit more with the thicker shim pack of the two, got me to 16inlb.