Re-gear now, lockers later

[lBasket]

I am wondering if it is a bad idea to regear and then add in selectable lockers / 30 spline axle shafts down the line later. I understand that will require setting up the gears a second time since a selectable locker will replace the carrier. I'm trying to see if there would be any downsides to this minus doing the gear labor twice. Let's just assume I can do gears twice without messing them up to take that unknown out of the equation.

Doing it all at once is a lot of money and let's just say it likes to burn a hole in my pocket.

 

[Apparition]

It’d cost you more time and more gear oil to do it twice.

If it’s just money, you can make more.

 

[lBasket]

It’d cost you more time and more gear oil to do it twice.

Yeah, and maybe some bearings if I mess them up I suppose. Not sure if there are any downsides I don't expect when "re-using" gears like this, I think most "re-use" of gears is implying one axle to another.

Plus I'm young, single, with no kids. Wtf else am I doing with my time.

If it’s just money, you can make more.

I can't make it fast enough though!

 

[WV Native]

Definitely do it all at once.

 

[lBasket]

Definitely do it all at once.

Why? Just to save time, or are there reasons it should be done all at once

 

[WV Native]

Why? Just to save time, or are there reasons it should be done all at once

It’s your money. Spent it twice if you like.

 

[lBasket]

It’s your money. Spent it twice if you like.

Well, I don't intend on paying labor. So I am asking if there are drawbacks outside of the actual labor itself. If I was paying it'd obviously be a no brainer.

But if the labor is worth it to me, it could be a lot more "fun" in total to drive it with decent gears while I saved up for selectables. Seeing if I am missing any gotchas that might come up trying to move a gearset onto a different carrier.

 

[WV Native]

Well, I don't intend on paying labor. So I am asking if there are drawbacks outside of the actual labor itself. If I was paying it'd obviously be a no brainer.

But if the labor is worth it to me, it could be a lot more "fun" in total to drive it with decent gears while I saved up for selectables. Seeing if I am missing any gotchas that might come up trying to move a gearset onto a different carrier.

None that I can think of other than there’s always a greater chance of mistakes doing it twice.

Basic mechanical mistakes are obviously multiplied doing it twice. Nicking an inner axle seal, forgetting a torque spec, broken bolts, and similar events are twice as likely.

I think the time frame is an important factor to consider as well. If you’re waiting a year to buy lockers then sure, but if it’s a couple months - no way.

 

[lBasket]

None that I can think of other than there’s always a greater chance of mistakes doing it twice.

Basic mechanical mistakes are obviously multiplied doing it twice. Nicking an inner axle seal, forgetting a torque spec, broken bolts, and similar events are twice as likely.

Okay cool. Yeah this is definitely a worry, but is what it is to a certain point. My time isn't quite "useless" but when I don't have any projects going on I end up playing video games a lot of the time. So not like I'd be missing out much there lol.

I think the time frame is an important factor to consider as well. If you’re waiting a year to buy lockers then sure, but if it’s a couple months - no way.

Unless I go way off my "I don't want to be paying my student loans for 10 frickin years" budget, it definitely would be longer than just a few months. 2 E-lockers and a super 30 + super 35 set is 4200$ so quite a bit.

RGA gearsets for both axles and 2 master kits is only 600$, so even buying all the tools it is something I could easily get done, potentially before Moab in May. maybe. potentially.

 

[ColoJeep]

Okay cool. Yeah this is definitely a worry, but is what it is to a certain point. My time isn't quite "useless" but when I don't have any projects going on I end up playing video games a lot of the time. So not like I'd be missing out much there lol.

Unless I go way off my "I don't want to be paying my student loans for 10 frickin years" budget, it definitely would be longer than just a few months. 2 E-lockers and a super 30 + super 35 set is 4200$ so quite a bit.

RGA gearsets for both axles and 2 master kits is only 600$, so even buying all the tools it is something I could easily get done, potentially before Moab in May. maybe. potentially.

Hearing your goals , I say go for ! You may have some un seen issues ( seals bearing etc...) but you will also learn a ton of things about your Jeep.
If this keeps you from playing video games , I say start your tear down tonight !

 

[lBasket]

Hearing your goals , I say go for ! You may have some un seen issues ( seals bearing etc...) but you will also learn a ton of things about your Jeep.
If this keeps you from playing video games , I say start your tear down tonight !

Yeah, I think it is seeming worth it, enjoying the jeep more is hard to put a price on. Bearings and seals are only like 20$ so if I have to replace some the second time it shouldn't be an huge deal. Especially since I'm theoretically rollin' in it to be ready to do it a second time.

Yep the video games are a time sink and kinda a waste, although it's nice to kick back sometimes. Just kinda where I end up when I'm not sure what to do lol.

 

[Wildman]

You'd want to put new carrier bearings on when you did your lockers obviously if you're doing full case lockers like an ARB or E-locker. What lockers are you planning on? You could do Detroit which are cheaper than ARB or E-locker. Yes a Detroit handles differently on snow & ice but it isn't as BAD as some make it out to be. Do you drive your Jeep a lot during the winter or use your DD?.
If you do it the way you're saying you want to check your backlash & pinion preload prior to disassembly. Then when you reassemble it you set your gears back to those numbers. There are guys on here WAY MORE skilled than me who can offer more advice. But yes you can do it it's just more expensive.
Also what are your plans for the Dana 35? Are you going Super35 when you add the locker? Or are you going to search out a Dana 44?

 

[lBasket]

You'd want to put new carrier bearings on when you did your lockers obviously if you're doing full case lockers like an ARB or E-locker. What lockers are you planning on? You could do Detroit which are cheaper than ARB or E-locker. Yes a Detroit handles differently on snow & ice but it isn't as BAD as some make it out to be. Do you drive your Jeep a lot during the winter or use your DD?.

I was planning on Eaton E-locker. Seems like the ARB is a pain with the air fittings from my seat?

I do currently have a front lunchbox and intend on keeping that up front for now. Someone may give me an LSD for the rear for now (kinda what got me on this train of thought).

I am still fuzzy on the difference between a lunchbox and the detroit. The detroit is a full case locker, but is also an automatic. Does it behave the same as a lunchbox?

If you do it the way you're saying you want to check your backlash & pinion preload prior to disassembly. Then when you reassemble it you set your gears back to those numbers. There are guys on here WAY MORE skilled than me who can offer more advice. But yes you can do it it's just more expensive.
Also what are your plans for the Dana 35? Are you going Super35 when you add the locker? Or are you going to search out a Dana 44?

So there could be a problem if I end up with different backlash then I had the first time it was set up, even if both are "in spec"?

I was planning on a super 35 currently. Suppose plans could change, but my impression so far is that the super 35 is "enough" for 35" tires and smaller/lighter than the Dana 44, and the Dana 44 is hardly "enough" for more than 35s anyways.

Dana 44s are not cheap and super 35 kits are, ~350$, it is the super 30 kit that is expensive.

 

[lBasket]

Two more thoughts I had:
1. If I do it in two sections, the first time I set up gears there won't be 2600$ worth of locker in there to ruin. Might be a positive.
2. If I do it in two sections, nothing is forcing me to do both lockers at the same time, it is only the gears that need to be done together.

 

[jjvw]

Prior to the most recent regear to 538, my rear 488 gears lived on three different lockers.

 

[lBasket]

Prior to the most recent regear to 538, my rear 488 gears lived on three different lockers.

This is great, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear

 

[jjvw]

This is great, exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear

In order to move the ring gear to a different carrier, a pattern needs to be run before disassembly. The new carrier and old ring gear needs to have a matching pattern, which is adjusted with the carrier shims. Though, one maybe two of my swaps did not need any pattern adjustment.

 

[ColoJeep]

Prior to the most recent regear to 538, my rear 488 gears lived on three different lockers.

Why so many lockers?

 

[lBasket]

In order to move the ring gear to a different carrier, a pattern needs to be run before disassembly. The new carrier and old ring gear needs to have a matching pattern, which is adjusted with the carrier shims. Though, one maybe two of my swaps did not need any pattern adjustment.

Okay that is good to know and easy enough to do.

I am trying to picture it in my head - having the same pattern is going to be equivalent to having the same backlash, right?

 

[jjvw]

I was planning on Eaton E-locker. Seems like the ARB is a pain with the air fittings from my seat?

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The ARB air lines are a non issue if you are smart enough to route them away from the exhaust and not let them pull tight with suspension travel.

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I do currently have a front lunchbox and intend on keeping that up front for now. Someone may give me an LSD for the rear for now (kinda what got me on this train of thought).
...

While better than nothing, the LSD quits doing anything that moment a tire loses traction.

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I am still fuzzy on the difference between a lunchbox and the detroit. The detroit is a full case locker, but is also an automatic. Does it behave the same as a lunchbox?
...

Lunchbox is an automatic locker the same way that the Detroit is. The difference is the size and strength.

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So there could be a problem if I end up with different backlash then I had the first time it was set up, even if both are "in spec"?
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No idea how much wiggle room there is. The idea behind matching the patterns is to keep the wear surface in the same spot where the work hardening has occurred.

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I was planning on a super 35 currently. Suppose plans could change, but my impression so far is that the super 35 is "enough" for 35" tires and smaller/lighter than the Dana 44, and the Dana 44 is hardly "enough" for more than 35s anyways.

...

The S35 is said to be comparable in strength to a factory Dana 44. All I know is that the people involved in its development ran them much harder in places we aren't going without a failure.

it is the super 30 kit that is expensive.

The S30 can move a ways down on your priority list. Just get cromoly axles, until you know you need a larger spline.