Structurally Sound Rock Sliders

[ejay]

What are you basing your opinion on then?

At the risk of creating a circular argument, my experience with them.

There's design and there's application. Both passed without issue in my experience. Swallow that anyway you'd like.

 

[JDS123]

At the risk of creating a circular argument, my experience with them.

There's design and there's application. Both passed without issue in my experience. Swallow that anyway you'd like.

So your opinion is then based on "I've ran them for X years without a problem". If the design has passed your expectations without issue then you don't know what to look for because those sliders have some major design flaws.

I'm not doubting they work for your uses. But it should also be said that they are not optimal whether they have worked for you or not. I run a Genright plate rear bumper. For my uses it works fine and hasn't caused any problems. But I also realize that it isn't the best design and would cause problems for someone else. Just because it has worked for me doesn't mean it is optimal or worth purchasing.

 

[jjvw]

At the risk of creating a circular argument, my experience with them.

There's design and there's application. Both passed without issue in my experience. Swallow that anyway you'd like.

Your application hasn't exceeded the design. And that's ok. At the end of the day, PS is still a fundamentally dumb design, especially when the better design doesn't cost more.

 

[ejay]

So your opinion is then based on "I've ran them for X years without a problem". If the design has passed your expectations without issue then you don't know what to look for because those sliders have some major design flaws.

I'm not doubting they work for your uses. But it should also be said that they are not optimal whether they have worked for you or not. I run a Genright plate rear bumper. For my uses it works fine and hasn't caused any problems. But I also realize that it isn't the best design and would cause problems for someone else. Just because it has worked for me doesn't mean it is optimal or worth purchasing.

The aftermarket Jeep parts market is flooded with "design flaws", products solving imaginary problems, half ass-ed efforts, and one metric ton of over designed add-ons. I've never suggested otherwise. Shit, the Jeep itself (generally speaking) has had a few design flaws of its own.

You can make a very similar "optimal" argument in regard to Harbor Freight Winches. I'd never use one unless I had no choice and have heard horror stories of them failing under light load. Seen a few fails in person as well. But I've also seen them work really well for many many years in applications that well exceeded their design spec. Not a terrible design but it has its flaws, comparatively. May be perfectly suited to someones needs based on their application.

What I am saying is that my Poison Spyder Sliders (Which are still sold today; dumb or not) have worked, without issue and regardless of major design flaws, for many many years. I have no doubt that they would also work in similar fashion for others as I've seen them work in similar fashion for many other people. I'm not trying to conceal anything and I don't have any brand loyalty. The "major design flaws" have, apparently, caused some major malfunctions to users tubs. Hasn't happened to me. Don't think that I'll ever have that problem either. What else do we have in this forum but the opinion of its users in real world scenarios. Shoot, I've seen more Nerf bars cause damage to rigs when they rip away than I ever have from PS style. Based on the above those are a superior design, too.

Take it for what it's worth to you. There's a big selection out there.

 

[jjvw]

Once you understand why one design is better than the other, why would one choose the lesser?

Understanding why PS is a fundamentally dumb design carries over into things like selecting body lifts, keeping track bars and control arms from slipping, and understanding how different bolted connections are supposed to work. PS undermines all of that. When you understand, PS isn't an option.

 

[ejay]

Once you understand why one design is better than the other, why would one choose the lesser?

Understanding why PS is a fundamentally dumb design carries over into things like selecting body lifts, keeping track bars and control arms from slipping, and understanding how different bolted connections are supposed to work. PS undermines all of that. When you understand, PS isn't an option.

Learn me then. Convince me that I absolutely must remove my PS sliders to avoid catastrophic failure of multiple critical components.

I understand why some of these could be a problem. I haven't experienced any of them, yet. Am I sitting on a ticking time bomb?

 

[jjvw]

Learn me then. Convince me that I absolutely must remove my PS sliders to avoid catastrophic failure of multiple critical components.

I understand why some of these could be a problem. I haven't experienced any of them, yet. Am I sitting on a ticking time bomb?

Where did I say you had to remove them? That's on you.

Do you understand why the JKS body lift is a fundamentally dumb design the same way PS is a fundamentally dumb design? Once I figured this out, I made a point to get rid of JKS because it was no longer an option. But I can sometimes be weird about things like that. I also know that many will go about their entire Jeeping lives with PS sliders and JKS body lifts without a care in the world.

Understanding is a blessing and a curse.

 

[suicideking]

Here's a pic of the body damage the PS did to mine. I had to remove them because I could tell the damage was getting worse. Once removed, I knew they weren't going back on.

Good luck if you keep them mounted.

 

[ejay]

Where did I say you had to remove them? Do you understand why the JKS body lift is a fundamentally dumb design the same way PS is a fundamentally dumb design? Once I figured this out, I made a point to get rid of JKS because it was no longer an option. But I can sometimes be weird about things like that. I also know that many will go about their entire Jeeping lives with PS sliders and JKS body lifts without a care in the world. Understanding is a blessing and a curse.

Never said that you told me to remove them. But by the way it's been mentioned it's bound to cause some damage at some point. I was attempting to simplify the subject.

I don't follow JKS body design so I do not know what you're refrencing. My question was a legitimate one. I'll spare you your burden.

 

[ejay]

double post

 

[ejay]

Here's a pic of the body damage the PS did to mine. I had to remove them because I could tell the damage was getting worse. Once removed, I knew they weren't going back on.

Good luck if you keep them mounted.

View attachment 192114View attachment 192115

View attachment 192116

Curious. How long were they on? Mine very well might look the same. Didn't last time I removed them, though.

 

[jjvw]

Never said that you told me to remove them. But by the way it's been mentioned it's bound to cause some damage at some point. I was attempting to simplify the subject.

I don't follow JKS body design so I do not know what you're refrencing. My question was a legitimate one. I'll spare you your burden.

Bolted connections need to be tight. Tight means they achieve a high enough torque value to create sufficient clamping force to secure the connection. The JKS body lift is made of compressible polyurethane. The body mount bolts can never achieve sufficient clamping force. This results in a body and frame connection that is insecure and moveable. It is weaker than stock. Once you understand this, why would you want JKS over any of the other body lifts that are made from non-compressible material?

All of this carries over to the Poison Spyder slider design. Step one to a good slider design is that it's means of attaching to the body will have nothing to do with the body mounts.

 

[ejay]

Bolted connections need to be tight. Tight means they achieve a high enough torque value to create sufficient clamping force to secure the connection. The JKS body lift is made of compressible polyurethane. The body mount bolts can never achieve sufficient clamping force. This results in a body and frame connection that is insecure and moveable. It is weaker than stock. Once you understand this, why would you want JKS over any of the other body lifts that after made from non-compressible material?

All of this carries over to the Poison Spyder slider design. Step one to a good slider design is that it's means of attaching to the body will have nothing to do with the body mounts.

Thank you.

 

[taylormade73]

@ejay is this just an optical illusion or distortion in the pics because its at the edge of the camera shot? The third pic in the photos you posted looks like your body mount is misaligned. I've downloaded and cropped the image for closer examination.

 

[ejay]

@ejay is this just an optical illusion or distortion in the pics because its at the edge of the camera shot? The third pic in the photos you posted looks like your body mount is misaligned. I've downloaded and cropped the image for closer examination.

View attachment 192126

I was using wide angle/fish eye lens on my Galaxy. Three default settings on the S10. One is none. The other two are slight and wider. Probably a distortion but I'll take a look anyway.

 

[ejay]

All good. Thanks for looking, though.

 

[suicideking]

Curious. How long were they on? Mine very well might look the same. Didn't last time I removed them, though.

Not quite 2 years. By the time you start noticing a gap in between the slider and the body, it has already done more damage than you can tell.

 

[Mike_H]

Understanding is a blessing and a curse.

More commonly said, "ignorance is bliss."

 

[mrblaine]

I'm sure they have failed some people. Mine, on the other hand, are scarred from years of rocks and trail damage but have never caused any damage what so ever to the tub; ever. Same with all sixty or so members of two different clubs I've belonged to over the years who also ran them. I mean, they're not 'Savvy sheik', but they're not a terrible design.

Yes, they are a terrible design. The only thing that would make them more terrible is if they were sandwiched on the bottom by the body mounts. Oh wait, they already do that.

 

[mrblaine]

They use the body mounts as a means of attachment. That is bad enough. Then there aren't enough bolts into the tub. It's a poor design, especially when you can get ones that attach better for a similar cost.

It isn't even that there isn't enough bolts, they are fucking 3/8" fasteners and the sheet metal is easily dimpled outwards by the 5mm bolts that hold the plastic flares on.