Synthetic Winch Rope Issues

[SargeJosh]

New winch owner here. I picked up a lightly used Warn XD9000i with 125' of 5/16 steel cable.

First thing I did was unravel and inspect the cable to which I discovered a massive flat spot/kink.

I was already on the fence about running steel, so I'm using this as an opportunity to convert to synthetic.

 

[SargeJosh]

As superior as these products are, my intended application will not support the price point of Viking, TRE, Warn, or Masterpull.
That said, I've researched this topic to death and have narrowed down my choices to:

1. A.R.E 7/16 x 100' Spider Silk ($140)
   • House brand for CO based Olympus Offroad.
2. Custom Splice Dimondback 3/8 x 100' ($190; Special Offer)

The A.R.E. option is appealing due to price, but they do not offer their rope in 3/8.

 

[SargeJosh]

My questions are simply this:

1. Is 7/16 overkill for my application?
2. If 100' of 3/8 fits on my spool, how much less length would be needed for 7/16?
3. Any other options <$200 I'm not considering and should be?

I’d appreciate any suggestions…

 

[mrblaine]

My questions are simply this:

1. Is 7/16 overkill for my application?
2. If 100' of 3/8 fits on my spool, how much less length would be needed for 7/16?
3. Any other options <$200 I'm not considering and should be?

I’d appreciate any suggestions…

Check the breaking strength. 3/8" should be around 20,000 or so. The reason anyone offers 7/16 is due to a lower strength fiber creating a lesser strength line so they increase diameter to bring the strength up. Be careful stuffing 100 feet of 3/8" line on there. That likely tops it all the way up and leaves it overfull. If they add any "abrasion guards" or drum insulator, that also adds bulk so the line will need to be shortened and reterminated.

edit to clarify why some lines increase diameter.

 

[rouxbicon]

My questions are simply this:

1. Is 7/16 overkill for my application?
2. If 100' of 3/8 fits on my spool, how much less length would be needed for 7/16?
3. Any other options <$200 I'm not considering and should be?

I’d appreciate any suggestions…

since mrblaine offered solid advice without self-promotion…check out his website Black Magic Brakes (Wizard Recovery Gear). Currently showing $151 shipped for 85’ of 3/8” with a safety thimble installed, and I would bet the $151 that mrblaine isn’t selling junk

 

[mrblaine]

since mrblaine offered solid advice without self-promotion…check out his website Black Magic Brakes (Wizard Recovery Gear). Currently showing $151 shipped for 85’ of 3/8” with a safety thimble installed, and I would bet the $151 that mrblaine isn’t selling junk

Our lines are also only 85 feet of 3/8" so there is a small bit of room for stacking up on a side pull so you don't damage the tie bars or bridge.

 

[MtPockets]

since mrblaine offered solid advice without self-promotion…check out his website Black Magic Brakes (Wizard Recovery Gear). Currently showing $151 shipped for 85’ of 3/8” with a safety thimble installed, and I would bet the $151 that mrblaine isn’t selling junk

Agree 100%.
Says alot about MrBlaine.

 

[RHanna]

Go with Black magic brake recovery gear, you get a thimble with the line. The thimble is one solid piece of aluminum meaning the failure points are minimized compared to the competitors. I wish I had waited just a couple months later and I would have bought the line and thimble together. I think he charged something like 50-75 for the thimble so he can't be making much money on the line if anything.

When I researched this about a year or two ago I would hear that the "cheaper" lines would advertise 3/8" but would actually be thicker to give it the breaking strength advertised. You wouldn't realize it until you went to spool the line on your winch and it wouldn't fit.

https://blackmagicbrakes.com/ols/categories/wizard-recovery-gear

 

[KingCarGuyZ]

Another one for mrblaine's Wizard Recovery gear. I have a run of the carrot color on my Shittybuilt Gen2. Works great at a very fair price from a man who stand behinds what he sells - what more can you ask for.

 

[mrblaine]

Go with Black magic brake recovery gear, you get a thimble with the line. The thimble is one solid piece of aluminum meaning the failure points are minimized compared to the competitors. I wish I had waited just a couple months later and I would have bought the line and thimble together. I think he charged something like 50-75 for the thimble so he can't be making much money on the line if anything.

When I researched this about a year or two ago I would hear that the "cheaper" lines would advertise 3/8" but would actually be thicker to give it the breaking strength advertised. You wouldn't realize it until you went to spool the line on your winch and it wouldn't fit.

https://blackmagicbrakes.com/ols/categories/wizard-recovery-gear

That was an old Masterpull trick. At one point they advertised their 3/8" line as being stronger than anyone else's in similar fiber and braid. They were using 10mm and selling it as 3/8".

My cost, hard cost with zero profit is right at 45 bucks for the thimbles. Add 18 bucks for shipping and we aren't making much on the lines. If there were more room, I wouldn't have to charge extra for the drum loop. But, the recovery gear isn't about making money. It is about supplying good quality, high utility gear at a tolerable price point. My products are not aimed at those that collect bumper jewelry, they are for those that use it, know they will wear it out and it needs to be cost effective enough that it can be replaced without feeling too badly over what you are spending.

The Amazon folks make it tough. I've got a ton of normal fairleads that I have more cost in than you can buy one on Amazon for. I need to figure out a way to move them. I may just start giving them away with a rope purchase since that appeals to me more than just throwing them away.

 

[RHanna]

That was an old Masterpull trick. At one point they advertised their 3/8" line as being stronger than anyone else's in similar fiber and braid. They were using 10mm and selling it as 3/8".

My cost, hard cost with zero profit is right at 45 bucks for the thimbles. Add 18 bucks for shipping and we aren't making much on the lines. If there were more room, I wouldn't have to charge extra for the drum loop. But, the recovery gear isn't about making money. It is about supplying good quality, high utility gear at a tolerable price point. My products are not aimed at those that collect bumper jewelry, they are for those that use it, know they will wear it out and it needs to be cost effective enough that it can be replaced without feeling too badly over what you are spending.

The Amazon folks make it tough. I've got a ton of normal fairleads that I have more cost in that you can buy one on Amazon for. I need to figure out a way to move them. I may just start giving them away with a rope purchase since that appeals to me more than just throwing them away.

You are also competing against yourself. If I was going to buy a normal fairlead I would just pay extra for the one that keeps the thimble out of the way.

 

[tworley]

The color on Blaines rope stands up really well and stays vibrant, too. High vis is great when doing a recovery anytime, day or night.

 

[That'll Buff]

This may be a dumb question. I decided to look at Blaine's winch lines because I read this thread and will consider swapping out the line on my winch at some point. Really I should replace the whole winch because I think I've gone over the working limit of it (or close to it) a few times and it makes... unhappy noises. Anyway, what is a drum loop? Is it as simple as it sounds and it's just a loop of rope that you disassemble the winch and put around the drum? Seems like anything is better than the lone small screw that I've stripped out twice and now don't use.

 

[mrblaine]

This may be a dumb question. I decided to look at Blaine's winch lines because I read this thread and will consider swapping out the line on my winch at some point. Really I should replace the whole winch because I think I've gone over the working limit of it (or close to it) a few times and it makes... unhappy noises. Anyway, what is a drum loop? Is it as simple as it sounds and it's just a loop of rope that you disassemble the winch and put around the drum? Seems like anything is better than the lone small screw that I've stripped out twice and now don't use.

The drum loop is basically a simple way to lasso the drum so the winch line can't come off if it were to slip into free spool and the line unwound all the way. There is a write up in this section about how to do it. The only sad part is you have to lay the line out all the way, run the end with the loop around the drum, feed the thimble through and then pull the rest of the line through it. No disassembly required.

I'd find out why it is making noises before you replace it.

 

[That'll Buff]

The drum loop is basically a simple way to lasso the drum so the winch line can't come off if it were to slip into free spool and the line unwound all the way. There is a write up in this section about how to do it. The only sad part is you have to lay the line out all the way, run the end with the loop around the drum, feed the thimble through and then pull the rest of the line through it. No disassembly required.

I'd find out why it is making noises before you replace it.

Cool solution, I actually found the write up a bit after I wrote this once I changed what I searched for. I don't use my winch enough to warrant any changes currently, but I'll look into it more if I get serious about it. It's worked seemingly perfectly the times I've had to use it since I think the noise started, so it really could be nothing.

 

[macleanflood]

Anyway, what is a drum loop?

Thread 'Winch line to drum attachment WRG'

Mar 25, 2023

I like this method because the screw mount to side of drum is terrible at best. This way of doing it greatly increases the chances of the line not leaving the drum should one have a momentary lapse in judgement and spool out too far under load.
We use a Locked Brummel without the buried tail. That goes through the fairlead and key to helping it lock down and providing tension on the drum right away is to go OVER the top of the drum.

Bring it around the back of the drum and back out through the fairlead opening.

The loop is big enough to feed the thimble...

• mrblaine
• Replies: 15
• Forum: TJ How-to Guides

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[tnjeepguy]

Really I should replace the whole winch because I think I've gone over the working limit of it (or close to it) a few times and it makes... unhappy noises.

Smittybilt X2O-10K winch ?? (Hard to beat a nice Warn lightly used winch.)
That said, why not take it apart and see what the problem is. What sort of unhappy noise; could it be your wife/girlfriend and not the winch ??

 

[SargeJosh]

Check the breaking strength. 3/8" should be around 20,000 or so. The reason anyone offers 7/16 is due to a lower strength fiber creating a lesser strength line so they increase diameter to bring the strength up. Be careful stuffing 100 feet of 3/8" line on there. That likely tops it all the way up and leaves it overfull. If they add any "abrasion guards" or drum insulator, that also adds bulk so the line will need to be shortened and reterminated.

edit to clarify why some lines increase diameter.

Thanks Mr Blaine! Appreciate the prompt feedback!!

 

[SargeJosh]

since mrblaine offered solid advice without self-promotion…check out his website Black Magic Brakes (Wizard Recovery Gear). Currently showing $151 shipped for 85’ of 3/8” with a safety thimble installed, and I would bet the $151 that mrblaine isn’t selling junk

Appreciate the heads up! Checking out his website right away !!

 

[John Cooper]

Grab a set of Blaines soft shackles also.

We had a member winch last Saturday, I used my tree strap and Blaines soft shackle, @GaTechTJ has a steel winch rope and hook, didn't see any marks on the soft shackle when we were done.