Tread Lightly, reduex

[StG58]

This subject has come up several times on the forum so far. It's important for us to do all we can to minimize our impact on the areas we wheel in. I am going to assume that everyone here does their part.

How do we, individually and as a group, minimize our impact? How do we "educate" the ignorant, and if that fails what do we do? I would love to hear of strategies that others have tried whether they worked or not.

I know of two strategies that haven't worked out so well. Confronting the knuckleheads, and reporting them to the local authorities. One can turn dangerous rather quickly and the other is a failure due to resource constraints. I have chatted with the ignorant to some positive effect, but you just never know how that is going to turn out.

Anyone have ideas?

 

[Chris]

Confronting people (especially rednecks) can be a a very bad and dangerous idea. Even if you're armed, they might be as well, and that can quickly escalate into something bad. I think the best way is to approach people you spot who are doing things wrong and try to politely suggest that there is another way. Of course, if they get hostile and refuse your help at that point it's best to just diffuse the situation and walk away.

 

[UPJOHN]

As a land owner I know that private property signs mean nothing to a lot of people. A few years back i caught a couple of gay men on my property, doing their thing, stuck up to their axles in mud. I could have pulled them out, but let them find out the hard way, and let them call a wrecker.
What worries me is if someone gets hurt 4wheeling or snowmobiling on my property, They would probably sue me.

 

[StG58]

I whole-heartedly agree with confronting those folks. I've talked to a lot of people in the woods over the years, and most were at least polite. That works out pretty well, but you have to know when to fold your cards and walk away. It can go from zero to stupid mighty fast. I've been contemplating taking pictures, that include license plates, and turning them over to the Sherriff's office. I don't know what they can or will do though. Beats doing nothing, I guess. There has to be a strategy that works at least some of the time, but I don't know what it is...

 

[StG58]

As a land owner I know that private property signs mean nothing to a lot of people. A few years back i caught a couple of gay men on my property, doing their thing, stuck up to their axles in mud. I could have pulled them out, but let them find out the hard way, and let them call a wrecker.

And the people that it means nothing to are the very ones that you are trying to keep out. And that's the deal. We really don't have to worry to much about the kind of people who obey No Trespassing signs. It's the folks who don't give a crap about anyone or anything, and will tear stuff up just to tear it up.

 

[Chris]

I whole-heartedly agree with confronting those folks. I've talked to a lot of people in the woods over the years, and most were at least polite. That works out pretty well, but you have to know when to fold your cards and walk away. It can go from zero to stupid mighty fast. I've been contemplating taking pictures, that include license plates, and turning them over to the Sherriff's office. I don't know what they can or will do though. Beats doing nothing, I guess. There has to be a strategy that works at least some of the time, but I don't know what it is...

I think that with most small towns even if you took photos the law enforcement probably wouldn't do much, if anything at all. A lot of it has to do with a lack of resources I'm sure.

The problem with a lot of these guys is that they are literally white trash rednecks who don't even give a shit. Hell, if they end up spending the night in jail that probably is a vacation for them.

Perhaps the best way is to find a way to secretly sabatoge their rigs... Haha, not sure how that would work though.

 

[StG58]

Not sure of the ethics of that, but the thought has crossed my mind. Wish I had a Mag Pulse device, the TJ is pretty immune to that from my research.

That's been my experience with local law enforcement. Unless you are a large landowner, like Weyerhauser, the local LE's are pretty unresponsive. They just don't have the resources to track these guys down and write them a ticket. It's not productive anyway, because they probably have a glove box full of tickets. My best success has been when I have actually connected with the local Sherriff. He has a Deputy assigned to the wild lands who patrols on a regular basis. Its more of a safety patrol, but he is a LEO. I may drop by the office and have a chat about this with whomever is available. Maybe there is a way to get ahold of him by radio so he can respond in a timely manner. Hmmm.

 

[Chris]

Yep, that's my thought as well, local law enforcement probably doesn't care unless you're a huge corporate land owner. This is a really tough one because I think the best solution is to attempt to educate people, but chances are that 9 out of 10 white trash rednecks don't want to be educated in the first place. I'd bey my money on that too...

So, it's almost like a pointless battle or a war that can't be won.

 

[mrblaine]

Yep, that's my thought as well, local law enforcement probably doesn't care unless you're a huge corporate land owner. This is a really tough one because I think the best solution is to attempt to educate people, but chances are that 9 out of 10 white trash rednecks don't want to be educated in the first place. I'd bey my money on that too...

So, it's almost like a pointless battle or a war that can't be won.

When you find a way to keep public restrooms spotless, then you will be able to apply the same answer to keeping public lands cared for by all. The reason public restrooms are by and large filthy is because they know someone will clean up after them and there is no ownership or pride. If you have no ownership and pride in what you do or where you do it, you will crap all over the place with no regard to who cleans up after you or who sees the mess you left behind.

The bigger issue is folks tend to migrate away from the city and civilization to engage is what they perceive as "lawless" behavior or behaviors that allow them to blow off steam with the reduced likelihood of someone with authority being able to punish them for those activities.

 

[Chris]

When you find a way to keep public restrooms spotless, then you will be able to apply the same answer to keeping public lands cared for by all. The reason public restrooms are by and large filthy is because they know someone will clean up after them and there is no ownership or pride. If you have no ownership and pride in what you do or where you do it, you will crap all over the place with no regard to who cleans up after you or who sees the mess you left behind.

Perfect metaphor to describe this.

In my opinion, I'm not sure there really is a way to stop this sort of thing from happening. To some degree or another it's human nature. I'm not saying it's something all of us do, but it's something that a large percentage of us do.

 

[billiebob]

When you find a way to keep public restrooms spotless, then you will be able to apply the same answer to keeping public lands cared for by all. The reason public restrooms are by and large filthy is because they know someone will clean up after them and there is no ownership or pride.

Public washrooms, especially ones in unattended campgrounds or in roadside pullouts are in a different category. We have them at the Marina and at the Beach. We send municipal staff thru them every morning, every evening. And they CLEAN them. The good restaurants, gas stations with clean washrooms check them every 2 hours... minimum.

You cannot blame filthy washrooms on the public using them. It is up to the owners/managers to maintain a schedule and pay staff to do it. Pride of ownership.... yes... but blame the owner, not the user. Even washrooms only used by the most respectful citizens need regular maintenance.

Sure there are a few lawless rednecks out there who have anger issues. And quite right... as we keep cutting government services and laying off workers we give them the freedom they love to act out.

 

[mrblaine]

Public washrooms, especially ones in unattended campgrounds or in roadside pullouts are in a different category. We have them at the Marina and at the Beach. We send municipal staff thru them every morning, every evening. And they CLEAN them. The good restaurants, gas stations with clean washrooms check them every 2 hours... minimum.

You cannot blame filthy washrooms on the public using them. It is up to the owners/managers to maintain a schedule and pay staff to do it. Pride of ownership.... yes... but blame the owner, not the user. Even washrooms only used by the most respectful citizens need regular maintenance.

Sure there are a few lawless rednecks out there who have anger issues. And quite right... as we keep cutting government services and laying off workers we give them the freedom they love to act out.

I can and do blame the public but I have to wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse or you lack the ability to understand how stuff works in real life?

The reason I ask is I've seen stuff in public restrooms that will never happen at someone's home at least not without some parent delivering a severe ass whoopin'.

 

[billiebob]

I can and do blame the public but I have to wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse or you lack the ability to understand how stuff works in real life?

The reason I ask is I've seen stuff in public restrooms that will never happen at someone's home at least not without some parent delivering a severe ass whoopin'.

Agreed, That is the extreme I mention last. But the big issue with public toilets is the lack of staff to maintain them.
And regular staff maintenance can catch those few abusers.

 

[Chris]

I blame public restrooms on the public. If everyone who went into a public restroom was courteous and clean, they wouldn't look the way they do. But you have drunk assholes who go in there and piss on the floor, throw paper on the ground, etc. It's not just drunk people either, it's people who do it because they expect (and know) that someone will come clean up after them.

So yeah, it is the staffs responsibility to clean it, but if everyone treated those restrooms like it was their own, I can pretty much guarantee the staff would rarely have to clean them.

 

[Zhillslady]

The police in Zhills respond to the few we have the trespass on private land and the public areas they jump on asap. Heck I got a ticket for riding my bike on the sidewalk at the park. Ok I don't normally do that out of respect for walkers but it was 5.30 am. The ones here get a ticket and my redneck neighbor recently bitched up a storm because he'd gotten one of the tickets and never paid it. When he went to renew his tag he had to pay the ticket as well or couldn't renew tag. I think that might be a Florida thing as my brother had to recently pay toll fines to renew his jeep tag. They showed up when he tried to renew tag.

 

[badlieutenant]

Sure there are a few lawless rednecks out there who have anger issues. And quite right... as we keep cutting government services and laying off workers we give them the freedom they love to act out.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this statement... but I guess my ignorant redneck mind isn't able to comprehend it.

Cutting government services and laying off workers gives lawless rednecks freedom to act out... I don't get it.

What are we talking about? Dirty restrooms are the fault of the ownership? Government services?

I'm pretty sure 99% of the graffiti I've seen scrawled across bathrooms aren't the works of "rednecks".