ZJ Tie Rod Conversion

Is it just me, or does the fact you have the adjustment sleeve far from centered between the tie rod and the rod end suggest that might be part of he problem?

The sleeve was centered originally. However, when the tie rod bends in that area it has a tendency to distort the threads. In my case, that's exactly what happened. I couldn't re-center the sleeve, so this was the best that could be done to be able to drive it out.
 
This is something that has been bugging me too. I replaced my boots yesterday and went with 55lb from what I found literally everywhere. It was much tighter than OEM, which the TREs had never been removed. I checked the tie rod to drag connection and my wrench clicked at 35lb, which got me thinking the knuckles were 35lb too.

Got a copy of the 2003 service manual. Interestingly the chart in it shows 55lb but the actual step by step instructions state 35lb. One difference I noticed was the Nm is 47 for 35lb and 74 for 55lb. Possibly transposed?

I am a bit confused now which is best as I have 176K at 35lbs so it can't be too bad. Wondering if the extra 20lbs of torque are contributing to premature failure or not?

I too tightened to 55ft/lbs and yes the castle nut is buried further than I would like. I was able to turn the cotter pin and bend it vertical to lock the castle end and the hoop end catches too but barely. It is just something that I look at often to make sure the pins are still there.
 
This is something that has been bugging me too. I replaced my boots yesterday and went with 55lb from what I found literally everywhere. It was much tighter than OEM, which the TREs had never been removed. I checked the tie rod to drag connection and my wrench clicked at 35lb, which got me thinking the knuckles were 35lb too.

Got a copy of the 2003 service manual. Interestingly the chart in it shows 55lb but the actual step by step instructions state 35lb. One difference I noticed was the Nm is 47 for 35lb and 74 for 55lb. Possibly transposed?

I am a bit confused now which is best as I have 176K at 35lbs so it can't be too bad. Wondering if the extra 20lbs of torque are contributing to premature failure or not?

I too tightened to 55ft/lbs and yes the castle nut is buried further than I would like. I was able to turn the cotter pin and bend it vertical to lock the castle end and the hoop end catches too but barely. It is just something that I look at often to make sure the pins are still there.

Can you guys post a pic of your TRE so we can compare? I have even swapped out the knuckle per suggestion in this thread and had the same result. I was wondering if perhaps I had the wrong TRE in there and it was a different taper. I can't think of anything else. I know that my TRE boot is busted because it rubbed on the corner/edge of the dust shield since it was so fat from being compressed.

I even made a post about it: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/is-there-an-issue-with-this-tie-rod-end.55208/
 
Can you guys post a pic of your TRE so we can compare? I have even swapped out the knuckle per suggestion in this thread and had the same result. I was wondering if perhaps I had the wrong TRE in there and it was a different taper. I can't think of anything else. I know that my TRE boot is busted because it rubbed on the corner/edge of the dust shield since it was so fat from being compressed.

I even made a post about it: https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/is-there-an-issue-with-this-tie-rod-end.55208/

Heres mine


IMG_4031.jpg
 
Just for reference, I purchased all Moog steering parts. OEM knuckle from 2000 and if I had to guess I think I replaced the OEM TREs. Steering actually feels tighter than on my Gladiator now so I am leaving it alone until something breaks or falls out. Just grease and inspect.


64DE3562-E172-45CE-B228-12328CF0FC4D.png


9BB93CAC-A5C6-4E81-83EE-CE001275B6B5.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: rdu-jeep
Just for reference, I purchased all Moog steering parts. OEM knuckle from 2000 and if I had to guess I think I replaced the OEM TREs. Steering actually feels tighter than on my Gladiator now so I am leaving it alone until something breaks or falls out. Just grease and inspect.


View attachment 355418

View attachment 355419

This is about how mine looked too. I swapped the boot originally but it didn't really work so went with the Moog new parts throughout. Passenger side didn't look bad but the driver side was about like yours. I went with 45lbs and it still put the castle kind of low. Between the dust shield and the rim I was a bit concerned but it has worked so far. I noticed it "burped" some grease out recently and looks a bit better now but am planning on pulling the wheel this weekend to see if the boot was damaged in any way.

I agree the renewed feel in steer is amazing.
 
This is about how mine looked too. I swapped the boot originally but it didn't really work so went with the Moog new parts throughout. Passenger side didn't look bad but the driver side was about like yours. I went with 45lbs and it still put the castle kind of low. Between the dust shield and the rim I was a bit concerned but it has worked so far. I noticed it "burped" some grease out recently and looks a bit better now but am planning on pulling the wheel this weekend to see if the boot was damaged in any way.

I agree the renewed feel in steer is amazing.

Post back after this weekend, interested to learn what you find out.
I am in NC too (Raleigh) maybe we can wheel sometime.
 
Are any of y'all changing out the track bar bushings when you do this conversion?

My track bar was super loose, and the second hole someone had drilled out instead of an adjustable bar, was elongated.
Initially, I replaced the bar with an adjustable option, and went back to the factory hole. Recently I had my axle out and I replaced the bracket altogether.

4381842C-063D-44C9-870D-528AF240BC8B.jpeg


1C0903EB-498A-4A45-B740-2B7514328243.jpeg


44355D7E-7217-4ABA-A29C-CAA987F1F12E.jpeg


6381CF29-0A94-4797-A457-FCE852E6C655.jpeg


E2409D84-8528-4D29-A262-AD9F95952C33.jpeg


7EEE1527-7A53-4982-85BD-F6F5F66C3E63.jpeg
 
@Chris
In this article:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/
You gave an excellent detailed explanation of the ZJ tie rod upgrade. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge & I'd like some opinions from you and others on recommendations for my Jeep TJ.

Here's my Jeep info, setup, and most likely useage;
1999 Jeep TJ 4.0
Manual 5 speed
Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ P3's
33x12.50 R15 MT
Mickey Thompson simulated beadlocker rims
4" decent suspension lift
Zero body lift
Front adjustable trackbar
No drop pitman arm (it's stock)
Bilstein 5100 monotube gas shock set for 4" lift
Old Man EMU steering stabilizer
Luk flywheel, clutch, pressure plate
Timken throw out bearing
New upper & lower ball joints.

I'm a Disabled American, Retired, & formerly paralyzed. Always performed my own work on my Jeep wrangler TJ.
This is my daily driver. Well taken care of.
No heavy off roading, bouldering, rock crawling
I use my vehicle to get around the farm mostly with moderate highway & city useage as well. light trail to medium trail use. Mostly woodlands, Farms, service roads, some stream crossings, various steep hills and valleys.

Been experiencing some excessive play in steering. Can't tell if it's wandering or bumping when I hit small bumps on the road. Did a lot of reading here about Bump steer, and the differences etc. Did a dry test, can't really see a whole lot of play in the tie rod ends, but I do see a little. They are in need of replacement anyways. Not falling apart, just age, broken boots etc.

I'd really appreciate some input on which option would be better recommended for my usage, and is either stronger than the other. I'd opt for the Curry, however I'd probably never get full use of it.

Option 1.
ZJ tie rod upgrade using all MOOG parts you listed here:
ES3096L Tie Rod End (x1)
ES2079S Adjusting Sleeve (x1)
DS1312 Tie Rod (x1)
DS1430 Drag Link (x1)

Option 2.
Crown HD Steering Kit
Crown HD Steering Kit comes with everything, however the research I've seen indictates there may be some weakness on the tie rod adjuster sleeves, grade 5 hardware, and crown nut stripping out with recommended torque. No way to grease the tie rods. However the rods seem to be much sturdier, thicker etc.

On the other hand, MOOG is a well known & has a reputation for lasrlting a long time if properly taken care of. However the bars seem to be narrower etc

Is either really strong than the other?
Any thoughts or auggestions?
 
Last edited:
@Chris
In this article here:
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/zj-tie-rod-conversion.2373/
You gave an excellent detailed explanation of the ZJ tie rod upgrade. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge & I'd like some opinions from you and others on recommendations for my Jeep TJ.

Here's my Jeep info, setup, and most likely useage;
1999 Jeep TJ 4.0
Manual 5 speed
Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ P3's
33x12.50 R15 MT
Mickey Thompson simulated beadlocker rims
4" decent suspension lift
Zero body lift
Front adjustable trackbar
No drop pitman arm (it's stock)
Bilstein 5100 monotube gas shock set for 4" lift
Old Man EMU steering stabilizer
Luk flywheel, clutch, pressure plate
Timken throw out bearing
New upper & lower ball joints.

This is my daily driver. Well taken care of.
No heavy off roading, bouldering, rock crawling
I use my vehicle to get around the farm mostly with moderate highway & city useage as well. light trail to medium trail use. Mostly woodlands, Farms, service roads, some stream crossings, various steep hills and valleys.

I'd really appreciate some input on which option would be better recommended for my usage, and is either stronger than the other. I'd opt for the Curry, however I'd probably never get full use of it.

Option 1.
ZJ tie rod upgrade using all MOOG parts you listed here:
ES3096L Tie Rod End (x1)
ES2079S Adjusting Sleeve (x1)
DS1312 Tie Rod (x1)
DS1430 Drag Link (x1)

Option 2.
Crown HD Steering Kit
Crown HD Steering Kit comes with everything, however the research I've seen indictates there may be some weakness on the tie rod adjuster sleeves, grade 5 hardware, and crown nut stripping out with recommended torque. No way to grease the tie rods. However the rods seem to be much sturdier, thicker etc.

On the other hand, MOOG is a well known & has a reputation for lasrlting a long time if properly taken care of. However the bars seem to be narrower etc

Is either really strong than the other?
Any thoughts or auggestions?

I’ve never personally run either, all I’ve ever run is the Currie steering. That being said, I wouldn’t hesitate to go with either, though I’d likely pick MOOG first as I believe they have a better reputation. Strength wise there shouldn’t be any difference between the two.
 
I’ve never personally run either, all I’ve ever run is the Currie steering. That being said, I wouldn’t hesitate to go with either, though I’d likely pick MOOG first as I believe they have a better reputation. Strength wise there shouldn’t be any difference between the two.

Ok, thank you sir for your info. One more thing. You also mentioned two different drag links with one being cheaper than the other but both will work. For the life of me I can figure out what the difference is.

"Notes:
DS1238 is cheaper but equivalent to the DS1430. Also, you may need 2 of the short ends and coupling sleeves depending on how much you're replacing"
 
Ok, thank you sir for your info. One more thing. You also mentioned two different drag links with one being cheaper than the other but both will work. For the life of me I can figure out what the difference is.

"Notes:
DS1238 is cheaper but equivalent to the DS1430. Also, you may need 2 of the short ends and coupling sleeves depending on how much you're replacing"

That info came from me. One is for the Cherokee and one is for the Wrangler and has the associated Wrangler tax. There is an ever so slightly different angle in the bend where the steering stabilizer mounts. I've been running the XJ version since I posted and had zero issues. I'm extraordinarily cheap at times, I won't apologize. :)
 
Post back after this weekend, interested to learn what you find out.
I am in NC too (Raleigh) maybe we can wheel sometime.

Hey, I just did the zj tie rod conversion this past weekend and ran into this same issue where I was trying to torque the castle nuts to 55 ft lbs and never got there with my torque wrench because the nut was well below the cotter pin.

It's the correct spec 35 ft lbs? Or should I really be torquing to 55ft lbs even if the castle nuts is well below the cotter pin?
 
The FSM says 55 ft lbs, but that's for the TJ steering. I haven't checked a ZJ FSM. The ZJ and TJ knuckles are the same, so whatever the ZJ FSM says should be correct. However, lots of people on here recommend 35 ft lbs.

I don't think the heavy torque is the real problem. I used MOOG parts, and placed the tapered stud into the knuckle and threaded the castle nut on, gently, by hand with a small ratchet. Even with no real torque applied, the stud is already sitting too tall with the cotter pin hole part way above the top of the nut. And the tops of the dust boots are mashed into the knuckle. After torquing to 35 ft lbs, it's not really much worse, and the cotter pin will stop the castle nut from turning, just barely.

I suspect the real problem is that MOOG and Crown and pretty much every other manufacturer is building these TREs to a bad spec. Look at pictures of other brands after installation, and many of them have the cotter pin too high and the dust boot mashed too flat.

OEM tie rod end (good):
OEM_TieRodEnd.jpg



MOOG tie rod end (bad):
Smashed_Seal_01.jpg


I don't think every TJ owner is pulling that tapered stud too deep into the knuckle, as has been suggested. I don't think we could if we tried, without going to a LOT higher torque. Anybody with a scrap knuckle and TRE want to try it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: rdu-jeep
And another thing . . .

The MOOG drag link split a dust boot after 3 months:
Moog_Drag_Link_01.jpg


I removed it and found this sharp ridge right where the split occurred:
Moog_Drag_Link_02.jpg


I covered the joint to keep out metal filings, and filed it smooth:
Moog_Drag_Link_03.jpg


MOOG does not sell the dust covers separately, or send them out to fix their own screw-ups. I found that these will fit fairly well:
Prothane 19-1714-BL Black Tie Rod End Boot (a pair)

I installed the Prothane dust boot, and I'm keeping my eye on it.
Moog_Drag_Link_04.jpg


Note: That's the drag link end, not the tie rod end on the driver side with the cotter pin/smashed boot problem. The dust covers are different.
 
@OldBuzzard your summary is spot on and I agree with your assessment based on my troubleshooting. Thanks for chiming in!

My plan is to buy a different brand of TRE for driver's side and see how it fits. Been diving with the smashed Moog for some time now.
 
The FSM says 55 ft lbs, but that's for the TJ steering. I haven't checked a ZJ FSM. The ZJ and TJ knuckles are the same, so whatever the ZJ FSM says should be correct. However, lots of people on here recommend 35 ft lbs.

I don't think the heavy torque is the real problem. I used MOOG parts, and placed the tapered stud into the knuckle and threaded the castle nut on, gently, by hand with a small ratchet. Even with no real torque applied, the stud is already sitting too tall with the cotter pin hole part way above the top of the nut. And the tops of the dust boots are mashed into the knuckle. After torquing to 35 ft lbs, it's not really much worse, and the cotter pin will stop the castle nut from turning, just barely.

I suspect the real problem is that MOOG and Crown and pretty much every other manufacturer is building these TREs to a bad spec. Look at pictures of other brands after installation, and many of them have the cotter pin too high and the dust boot mashed too flat.

OEM tie rod end (good):
View attachment 402419


MOOG tie rod end (bad):
View attachment 402420

I don't think every TJ owner is pulling that tapered stud too deep into the knuckle, as has been suggested. I don't think we could if we tried, without going to a LOT higher torque. Anybody with a scrap knuckle and TRE want to try it?

Just wondering, would it be acceptable to use a thick grade 8 flat washer under the nut to get the hole/cotter pin to line up with the slots in the castle nut?

Or even a thin grade 8 if that’s all you need to line them up?