Thanks Mike!
Thanks Scott!
Thanks Rick!
Happy Birthday to you...
You live in a zoo...
You look. like. a. mon-key...
(all together now)
AND YOU SMELL. LIKE. ONE. TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Ahhhhhhh, thanks, Zorba?
Thanks!
Nashville TJ's Build - Continued
- Thread starter NashvilleTJ
- Start date
Thanks Mike!
Thanks Scott!
Thanks Rick!
Ahhhhhhh, thanks, Zorba?
Thanks!
Well, to quote Mark Watney, "I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this..." 
First up with the new ARB - prior to deciding whether or not to mount this beast - was to evaluate its performance compared to my current ViAir 450C, and my CO2 tank.
So, here we go...
I spent some time figuring out how to use the wiring harness to get this thing to run. Unlike brushed motors, on a brushless motor you can't just ground it and throw voltage at it. After figuring out the wiring, and how all the triggers, switches and fail safes worked, I hooked it up to a spare battery. This thing is very voltage sensitive, and I quickly discovered that it requires 12.5 volts just to power up. My battery was not doing that, so I connected it to the Jeep with Jumper cables. That allowed it to fire up:
The next challenge was getting it to run on both motors (this thing is very smart...
). It needs something like 13.5 volts to run both motors, and that means the engine needs to be running to do so. At lower voltage, only one motor will run.
Turns out the voltage drop across my Rube Goldberg setup was causing issues. So next, I wired it up directly to the Jeep:
And with that, everything worked - so, time for some tests. I generally wheel the Fodeez somewhere around 10 psi, and I run on the road at around 25 psi. So, testing inflating from 10 psi to 25 psi seemed like a good real-world scenario.
Started here:
First up, I did a base line on the existing ViAir 450C. I ran the test with the engine off, with the engine idling, and with the engine at 2,000 rpm (I can do that thanks to the idle speed controller used for the welder). Here it is in action:
I did the test a few times, and with the engine at 2k it took 4:33 to go from 10 to 25. A little slower without the engine running, but not too much.
Next up, my CO2 tank. Same test, again repeated a few times, and it took 41 seconds to get to 25 psi (This thing smokes, and when I used to run monster valves it would do this in something like 20 seconds).
And then the ARB. With both motors running, and the engine at 2k, it hit the mark at 1:25. Way, way faster than the ViAir, and as expected not as fast as the CO2. With the engine at idle, it took 1:30 - so not a big change there.
But, only about 45 seconds slower than the CO2. That was actually pretty impressive.
So to avoid the weight and the space of the CO2 tanks, I think giving up only 45 seconds a tire seems well worth it.
Now to figure out where to mount this bad boy...
First up with the new ARB - prior to deciding whether or not to mount this beast - was to evaluate its performance compared to my current ViAir 450C, and my CO2 tank.
So, here we go...
I spent some time figuring out how to use the wiring harness to get this thing to run. Unlike brushed motors, on a brushless motor you can't just ground it and throw voltage at it. After figuring out the wiring, and how all the triggers, switches and fail safes worked, I hooked it up to a spare battery. This thing is very voltage sensitive, and I quickly discovered that it requires 12.5 volts just to power up. My battery was not doing that, so I connected it to the Jeep with Jumper cables. That allowed it to fire up:
The next challenge was getting it to run on both motors (this thing is very smart...
). It needs something like 13.5 volts to run both motors, and that means the engine needs to be running to do so. At lower voltage, only one motor will run.Turns out the voltage drop across my Rube Goldberg setup was causing issues. So next, I wired it up directly to the Jeep:
And with that, everything worked - so, time for some tests. I generally wheel the Fodeez somewhere around 10 psi, and I run on the road at around 25 psi. So, testing inflating from 10 psi to 25 psi seemed like a good real-world scenario.
Started here:
First up, I did a base line on the existing ViAir 450C. I ran the test with the engine off, with the engine idling, and with the engine at 2,000 rpm (I can do that thanks to the idle speed controller used for the welder). Here it is in action:
I did the test a few times, and with the engine at 2k it took 4:33 to go from 10 to 25. A little slower without the engine running, but not too much.
Next up, my CO2 tank. Same test, again repeated a few times, and it took 41 seconds to get to 25 psi (This thing smokes, and when I used to run monster valves it would do this in something like 20 seconds).
And then the ARB. With both motors running, and the engine at 2k, it hit the mark at 1:25. Way, way faster than the ViAir, and as expected not as fast as the CO2. With the engine at idle, it took 1:30 - so not a big change there.
But, only about 45 seconds slower than the CO2. That was actually pretty impressive.
So to avoid the weight and the space of the CO2 tanks, I think giving up only 45 seconds a tire seems well worth it.
Now to figure out where to mount this bad boy...
Well, to quote Mark Watney, "I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this..."
First up with the new ARB - prior to deciding whether or not to mount this beast - was to evaluate its performance compared to my current ViAir 450C, and my CO2 tank.
So, here we go...
I spent some time figuring out how to use the wiring harness to get this thing to run. Unlike brushed motors, on a brushless motor you can't just ground it and throw voltage at it. After figuring out the wiring, and how all the triggers, switches and fail safes worked, I hooked it up to a spare battery. This thing is very voltage sensitive, and I quickly discovered that it requires 12.5 volts just to power up. My battery was not doing that, so I connected it to the Jeep with Jumper cables. That allowed it to fire up:
View attachment 699355
The next challenge was getting it to run on both motors (this thing is very smart...
Turns out the voltage drop across my Rube Goldberg setup was causing issues. So next, I wired it up directly to the Jeep:
View attachment 699359
And with that, everything worked - so, time for some tests. I generally wheel the Fodeez somewhere around 10 psi, and I run on the road at around 25 psi. So, testing inflating from 10 psi to 25 psi seemed like a good real-world scenario.
Started here:
View attachment 699360
First up, I did a base line on the existing ViAir 450C. I ran the test with the engine off, with the engine idling, and with the engine at 2,000 rpm (I can do that thanks to the idle speed controller used for the welder). Here it is in action:
View attachment 699365
I did the test a few times, and with the engine at 2k it took 4:33 to go from 10 to 25. A little slower without the engine running, but not too much.
Next up, my CO2 tank. Same test, again repeated a few times, and it took 41 seconds to get to 25 psi (This thing smokes, and when I used to run monster valves it would do this in something like 20 seconds).
View attachment 699361
And then the ARB. With both motors running, and the engine at 2k, it hit the mark at 1:25. Way, way faster than the ViAir, and as expected not as fast as the CO2. With the engine at idle, it took 1:30 - so not a big change there.
But, only about 45 seconds slower than the CO2. That was actually pretty impressive.
So to avoid the weight and the space of the CO2 tanks, I think giving up only 45 seconds a tire seems well worth it.
Now to figure out where to mount this bad boy...
That close to CO2 tank is pretty dang fast
I thought so as well. I did not expect it to be that close.
Well, to quote Mark Watney, "I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this..."
First up with the new ARB - prior to deciding whether or not to mount this beast - was to evaluate its performance compared to my current ViAir 450C, and my CO2 tank.
So, here we go...
I spent some time figuring out how to use the wiring harness to get this thing to run. Unlike brushed motors, on a brushless motor you can't just ground it and throw voltage at it. After figuring out the wiring, and how all the triggers, switches and fail safes worked, I hooked it up to a spare battery. This thing is very voltage sensitive, and I quickly discovered that it requires 12.5 volts just to power up. My battery was not doing that, so I connected it to the Jeep with Jumper cables. That allowed it to fire up:
View attachment 699355
The next challenge was getting it to run on both motors (this thing is very smart...
Turns out the voltage drop across my Rube Goldberg setup was causing issues. So next, I wired it up directly to the Jeep:
View attachment 699359
And with that, everything worked - so, time for some tests. I generally wheel the Fodeez somewhere around 10 psi, and I run on the road at around 25 psi. So, testing inflating from 10 psi to 25 psi seemed like a good real-world scenario.
Started here:
View attachment 699360
First up, I did a base line on the existing ViAir 450C. I ran the test with the engine off, with the engine idling, and with the engine at 2,000 rpm (I can do that thanks to the idle speed controller used for the welder). Here it is in action:
View attachment 699365
I did the test a few times, and with the engine at 2k it took 4:33 to go from 10 to 25. A little slower without the engine running, but not too much.
Next up, my CO2 tank. Same test, again repeated a few times, and it took 41 seconds to get to 25 psi (This thing smokes, and when I used to run monster valves it would do this in something like 20 seconds).
View attachment 699361
And then the ARB. With both motors running, and the engine at 2k, it hit the mark at 1:25. Way, way faster than the ViAir, and as expected not as fast as the CO2. With the engine at idle, it took 1:30 - so not a big change there.
But, only about 45 seconds slower than the CO2. That was actually pretty impressive.
So to avoid the weight and the space of the CO2 tanks, I think giving up only 45 seconds a tire seems well worth it.
Now to figure out where to mount this bad boy...
Nice work Jeff, nice to see a comparison.
My wife is treating me well on my birthday today:
Breakfast: Eggs Benedict - my favorite, and one of Nina’s specialties…
View attachment 699261
…and this:
View attachment 699262
She is quite intuitive. No idea where she got the idea…
Happy Birthday Jeff!!
Great breakfast choice! Even better choice of a wife!!!
Those new ARB brushless compressors aren't just the old compressors with brushless motors on them. I learned a bit about them when That'll Buff was trying to install the single motor version with non-lighted switches. They are pretty sophisticated and vary compressor speed based on the voltage available. It sounds like the double motor version also switches one of the motors off when the voltage is too low. They have a logic controller in the harness that will pulse the light on the switch to display a fault code.
As you said, like the old brushed-motor compressors, you have to use their harness due to the logic controller in it because that logic controller informs the motor to run at a certain speed. The way they use the light on the switch to display the fault code is tricky, and the type of light in the switch matters, as we learned in That'll Buff's thread. You can see the start of that enlightenment here, if you're interested. I think the big lesson is that it's best to use ARB's (or the Carling) switch to control the winch power if you want full functionality.
As you said, like the old brushed-motor compressors, you have to use their harness due to the logic controller in it because that logic controller informs the motor to run at a certain speed. The way they use the light on the switch to display the fault code is tricky, and the type of light in the switch matters, as we learned in That'll Buff's thread. You can see the start of that enlightenment here, if you're interested. I think the big lesson is that it's best to use ARB's (or the Carling) switch to control the winch power if you want full functionality.
Another thing it does is each motor beeps to describe faults. In my case, it was giving me four beeps which told me the voltage was low. Pretty cool stuff.
Edit: And of course the first thing that comes up in your link is the table which describes the beeps. Don't know how I missed that thread - Thanks Scott.
I enjoy watching your install and testing.
When I saw this pic:
Unfortunately my first thought was (for the compressors):
View: https://youtu.be/o0rI_iTQMYI?t=5
When I saw this pic:
Unfortunately my first thought was (for the compressors):
View: https://youtu.be/o0rI_iTQMYI?t=5
Well, to quote Mark Watney, "I'm gonna have to science the shit out of this..."
First up with the new ARB - prior to deciding whether or not to mount this beast - was to evaluate its performance compared to my current ViAir 450C, and my CO2 tank.
So, here we go...
I spent some time figuring out how to use the wiring harness to get this thing to run. Unlike brushed motors, on a brushless motor you can't just ground it and throw voltage at it. After figuring out the wiring, and how all the triggers, switches and fail safes worked, I hooked it up to a spare battery. This thing is very voltage sensitive, and I quickly discovered that it requires 12.5 volts just to power up. My battery was not doing that, so I connected it to the Jeep with Jumper cables. That allowed it to fire up:
View attachment 699355
The next challenge was getting it to run on both motors (this thing is very smart...
Turns out the voltage drop across my Rube Goldberg setup was causing issues. So next, I wired it up directly to the Jeep:
View attachment 699359
And with that, everything worked - so, time for some tests. I generally wheel the Fodeez somewhere around 10 psi, and I run on the road at around 25 psi. So, testing inflating from 10 psi to 25 psi seemed like a good real-world scenario.
Started here:
View attachment 699360
First up, I did a base line on the existing ViAir 450C. I ran the test with the engine off, with the engine idling, and with the engine at 2,000 rpm (I can do that thanks to the idle speed controller used for the welder). Here it is in action:
View attachment 699365
I did the test a few times, and with the engine at 2k it took 4:33 to go from 10 to 25. A little slower without the engine running, but not too much.
Next up, my CO2 tank. Same test, again repeated a few times, and it took 41 seconds to get to 25 psi (This thing smokes, and when I used to run monster valves it would do this in something like 20 seconds).
View attachment 699361
And then the ARB. With both motors running, and the engine at 2k, it hit the mark at 1:25. Way, way faster than the ViAir, and as expected not as fast as the CO2. With the engine at idle, it took 1:30 - so not a big change there.
But, only about 45 seconds slower than the CO2. That was actually pretty impressive.
So to avoid the weight and the space of the CO2 tanks, I think giving up only 45 seconds a tire seems well worth it.
Now to figure out where to mount this bad boy...
First off happy belated birthday.
Now, the testing...
impressive little set of pumps to be that close to the time of using your CO2 tank.That's now got me wondering how the ORO York kit with 10cfm at 1000rpm would compare... it's not a whole lot more money... if you have a 4.0l that is, like I do...
First off happy belated birthday.
Now, the testing...
That's now got me wondering how the ORO York kit with 10cfm at 1000rpm would compare... it's not a whole lot more money... if you have a 4.0l that is, like I do...
I've seen those converted A/C pumps run a few times and they are impressive. Rick ( @Wildman ) runs one, and may have some insight.
I have one on my LJ, but I haven't used it, since my build is incomplete and has been underway for a long time. I will say one thing in the spirit of my build ethos, though - it is a very heavy option! I bought the ORO kit. The compressor weighs about 23 lb and the bracket weighs a bit over 11 lb. Add two more pounds for wiring, hose, larger belt, and additional pully, and you're at 36 lb installed. I never weighed the dual (brushed) motor ARB in my Expedition, but I don't think it's even close to that.
Dang, I'm surprised Jeff didn't choose to go that route based solely on the added weight. He likes her hefty.
I have one, it's expensive and just spits a ton of oil. You have to add an air/oil separator and drain and fill the compressor on occasion. There's an oil passage many seal up, but I'm not sure I want to keep it from oiling itself...
All in its fast, which is nice. I don't know how it compares to the new ARB, but probably similar ball park.
There's a couple threads on the subject on here.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw0lfbLStv6E3PfwyscfxTjd&ust=1784045679118000
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw0lfbLStv6E3PfwyscfxTjd&ust=1784045679118000
and here's one from ORO on their mini York compressor. (From 2016)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw0lfbLStv6E3PfwyscfxTjd&ust=1784045679118000
I bought the ORO kit mainly because the compressor is supposedly designed to be an open-system air compressor, not a closed-system refrigerant compressor. I did add an oil/water separator downstream, though. As I said in my previous post, I can't give any recommendation on it, yet, though, because my rig isn't usable - yet.
Dang, I'm surprised Jeff didn't choose to go that route based solely on the added weight. He likes her hefty.
Hmmmm
I've got one of the ORO modified Yorks... I've got pull to mine back apart and check the mod I did to it swapping the suction & discharge sides.
If you have ever thought about the York Jeep Speed Shop offered a bracket for the early Hemi truck engine. When I purchased mine from them they only had 3 remaining with no plans of making anymore.
Well, since everyone is so down on the Yorks, I guess I'll install this thing...
It took quite a bit of figrin' and cyphrin', but I came up with a plan to fit this beast in there. First up, this is the old setup. It has served me well:
In addition to the Viair pump, there is also a 1/2 gallon air tank bolted to the ABS shelf. Also a custom brass manifold I built to route air to everything - I've always been proud of that thing, and am sorry to see it go.
In my case, the best spot for the ARB compressor is sitting vertical on that tray. But, I'll have to lose that tank. The ARB will fit there, and will also have enough clearance around it for air flow. This thing gets crazy hot, so it needs some space.
So, I started mocking up ideas for the mount. The motor cooling fans are in the bottom of the motor housing, and ARB says it requires at least two inches of clearance there - hence mounting it up off the tray.
And this is the mount I designed. The pump is heavy, and needs a fairly heavy duty mount. I did not think the tray itself would be up to the task. I also did not really have any room for gussets, so I went with 1/4" plate for the base, and 1x1x .088 wall square tube for the verticals. I used rubber isolators to attach the mounting bracket to the new mount.
Since this thing is sitting above the headers, I also added a cover to help keep that heat away from the intakes on the pump motors. Hopefully the result will be that the pump pulls more from the louvers on the side of the fender.
It took quite a bit of figrin' and cyphrin', but I came up with a plan to fit this beast in there. First up, this is the old setup. It has served me well:
In addition to the Viair pump, there is also a 1/2 gallon air tank bolted to the ABS shelf. Also a custom brass manifold I built to route air to everything - I've always been proud of that thing, and am sorry to see it go.
In my case, the best spot for the ARB compressor is sitting vertical on that tray. But, I'll have to lose that tank. The ARB will fit there, and will also have enough clearance around it for air flow. This thing gets crazy hot, so it needs some space.
So, I started mocking up ideas for the mount. The motor cooling fans are in the bottom of the motor housing, and ARB says it requires at least two inches of clearance there - hence mounting it up off the tray.
And this is the mount I designed. The pump is heavy, and needs a fairly heavy duty mount. I did not think the tray itself would be up to the task. I also did not really have any room for gussets, so I went with 1/4" plate for the base, and 1x1x .088 wall square tube for the verticals. I used rubber isolators to attach the mounting bracket to the new mount.
Since this thing is sitting above the headers, I also added a cover to help keep that heat away from the intakes on the pump motors. Hopefully the result will be that the pump pulls more from the louvers on the side of the fender.
Last edited:
Well, since everyone is so down on the Yorks, I guess I'll install this thing...
It took quite a bit of figrin' and cyphrin', but I came up with a plan to fit this beast in there. First up, this is the old setup. It has served me well:
View attachment 699699
In addition to the Viair pump, there is also a 1/2 gallon air tank sitting bolted to the ABS shelf. Also a custom brass manifold I built to route air to everything - I've always been proud of that thing, and am sorry to see it go.
In my case, the best spot for the ARB compressor is sitting vertical on that tray. But, I'll have to lose that tank. The ARB will fit there, will also have enough clearance around it for air flow. This thing gets crazy hot, so it needs some space.
View attachment 699700
So, I started mocking up ideas for the mount. The motor cooling fans are in the bottom of the motor housing, and ARB says it requires at least two inches of clearance there - hence mounting it up off the tray.
View attachment 699701
And this is the mount I designed. The pump is heavy, and needs a fairly heavy duty mount. I did not think the tray itself would be up to the task. I also did not really have any room for gussets, so I went with 1/4" plate for the base, and 1x1 - .088 square tube for the verticals. I used rubber isolators to attach the mounting bracket to the new mount.
View attachment 699702
Since this thing is sitting above the headers, I also added a cover to help keep that heat away from the intakes on the pump motors. Hopefully the result will be that the pump pulls more from the louvers on the side of the fender.
View attachment 699703
Well, if you're going to install a Hemi and reduce the brake booster size — obviously you have perfect install spot. You Hemi guys — always creating extra engine bay volume on TJ installs.....
——
I kid — I plan to use the same location but the OEM TJ booster has me trying to run mine up at an angle against the inner & outer fender.
Very clean install spot and design! As always.
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