Does control arm bushing composition affect ride quality or NVH?

It seems like a silly argument, but I feel compelled to contribute for some reason. I have ran stock Clevites, Currie arms, and now MC arms. Other than the increased firmness in steering and handling, my butt dyno can't tell the difference between the three. However, when introduced with drive train vibes, the jj's increased the transfer worse than the other two.
 
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kmas0n said:
Well, pay for the next set of control arms and I'll go with JJ's. :ROFLMAO:
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If only it were that easy. Since we're dreaming, its too bad you don't have 4 Jeeps in the fleet. Then I could buy you a set of Johnny Joints, Synergy DDB, and Duraflex. Then you could do all the testing of all 4 joints back to back and provide us with your results and analysis. :)

Sorry if it sounded like I didn't appreciate your feedback. I am excited to see a someone on the forum that has a fleet of rental Jeeps. I think your info regarding the 3 vehicles is valuable. My personal experience is limited to changing out Clevite to Rancho DDB bushings. I didn't notice any change in NVH in that move either, but its not as easy to test as having 3 vehicles in a side by side test.

For the argument at hand, it would have provided a fantastic data point of you had a Jeep with JJ as well. But by no means am I implying which set of arms you should run on your Jeeps. I respect your business decisions on how you outfit your rentals. Nothing wrong with MC arms as far as I am concerned. Everyone of us needs to look at our own needs and decide for ourselves which joints we feel best meets those needs.

I appreciate your feedback on the MetalCloak. As time goes on, please provide any additional input either good or bad regarding the arms in the forum. It seams to be a never ending argument about which joint or bushing is the best and you have a unique position to provide side by side data.
 
Fargo said:
If only it were that easy. Since we're dreaming, its too bad you don't have 4 Jeeps in the fleet. Then I could buy you a set of Johnny Joints, Synergy DDB, and Duraflex. Then you could do all the testing of all 4 joints back to back and provide us with your results and analysis. :)

Sorry if it sounded like I didn't appreciate your feedback. I am excited to see a someone on the forum that has a fleet of rental Jeeps. I think your info regarding the 3 vehicles is valuable. My personal experience is limited to changing out Clevite to Rancho DDB bushings. I didn't notice any change in NVH in that move either, but its not as easy to test as having 3 vehicles in a side by side test.

For the argument at hand, it would have provided a fantastic data point of you had a Jeep with JJ as well. But by no means am I implying which set of arms you should run on your Jeeps. I respect your business decisions on how you outfit your rentals. Nothing wrong with MC arms as far as I am concerned. Everyone of us needs to look at our own needs and decide for ourselves which joints we feel best meets those needs.

I appreciate your feedback on the MetalCloak. As time goes on, please provide any additional input either good or bad regarding the arms in the forum. It seams to be a never ending argument about which joint or bushing is the best and you have a unique position to provide side by side data.
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Well, wish me luck and I may have a 4th this summer. Long term durability is a must, the trails in Sedona are not hard, but they are very rocky and bumpy and everything gets shaken very well. I will say I am impressed with the durability of the JLs so far.
 
bobthetj03 said:
However, when introduced with drive train vibes, the jj's increased the transfer worse than the other two.
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That's what I'm saying. And the JJs allowed me to find and fix a problem the Clevites had masked, which is a plus. After all drive train vibes are actually power that should be going to the wheels. ;)
 
I'm happy for you. Sounds like you have a growing business. I'm a small business owner myself and I know it takes a lot of work to make a living. I've only been to Sedona once in my life about 20 years ago and it was before I had a Jeep. So I never got out on the trails. Although I did stop at Pink Jeep and considered renting one at that time. I do hope to get out there some time, but I don't know when that will be.

I've been impressed with my friends JLUR and hope to someday get into one. But I love my LJ and the JL would have to be a second Jeep. Not much need for Jeep rentals in eastern ND, so no chance for me to buy a fleet of Jeeps and open a business. May God bless you with your business.
 
fuse said:
That's what I'm saying. And the JJs allowed me to find and fix a problem the Clevites had masked, which is a plus. After all drive train vibes are actually power that should be going to the wheels. ;)
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Not only that, but drivetrain vibes could really damage joints and lead to premature wear on bearings and seals. So that is indeed a good thing.

This really has me thinking now. Two of you have noticed an increase in drivetrain vibes when you switched to the JJ arms. I wonder how many of those people who said they noticed an increase in NVH when they switch to Johnny Joints were actually feeling drivetrain vibes and not road NVH. Indeed they do have an increase in NVH from the JJ arms, but its not from the road. Its drivetrain issues. This could be a real game changer.

I wonder if @mrblaine ever noticed this when installing JJ arms. He likely always had the pinion angles all dialed in correctly so it was never an issue. I am just really wondering now how much of the NVH argument against JJ arms is due to drivetrain vibes and not NVH from driving surfaces.
 
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I wonder about the rancho control arms, because everyone ,everyone says there 5000x are the shit...so why wouldn't there arms be good?there bushings kinda seem like MC...
 
rubicube said:
I wonder about the rancho control arms, because everyone ,everyone says there 5000x are the shit...so why wouldn't there arms be good?there bushings kinda seem like MC...
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I have the Rancho arms. They use the Synergy DDB bushings. They are different than the Metal Cloak . I love them. Very well built, single adjustable arm.
 
Fargo said:
I have the Rancho arms. They use the Synergy DDB bushings. They are different than the Metal Cloak . I love them. Very well built, single adjustable arm.
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I think I'm gonna try them with there shock's........my rubi is my only driver beside my Harley and I do some rough rocky trails but still fly down to phx.at 75/80 and want good ride...
 
rubicube said:
I think I'm gonna try them with there shock's........my rubi is my only driver beside my Harley and I do some rough rocky trails but still fly down to phx.at 75/80 and want good ride...
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I drive 1000+/- miles out to CO every few years with a friend. Keeping my Jeep reliable and comfortable as a daily driver on the highway at 80mph is a top priority when building it. The Rancho arms have excelled at that. They feel better than the (100,000 mile old) factory Clevite.
 
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chino1969 said:
Blaine pretty much knows his shit. When he gives an explanation it is based on very sound principles and experience.
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Due to the ability to adjust the length of the connecting arm, you can produce any result you want and there is no valid comparison to a clevite bushing as a baseline. (not that I would trust it on that machine anyway)
 
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k-huevo said:
The inner sleeve in the DDB isn't bound. I rotates freely and can slip from side to side when unbolted...
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And when it wears, the inner sleeve can wiggle about. @David Kishpaugh showed a number of worn Synergy bushings on his Jeep West Face Book page. After seeing this a few times I decided to have a look at my DDBs; 7 of 10 inner bushing sleeves were loose with small gaps, and 2 other inner sleeves in LCA rod ends wobbled with large gaps. I couldn't hear or feel looseness while driving BTW.
Below is an image with 2nd generation DDB on left and 1st gen on right.
2nd Gen on Left 1st Gen on Right.JPG
I installed new 2nd gen DDBs on the fixed side of my adjustable LCAs, and replaced the DDB rod ends with JJs. Soon there will be only two DDBs on the Jeep.
JJ DDB LCA.JPG
An original front UCA bushing would not budge when I tried to press it out. It was very time consuming to remove the bushing outer sleeve. Then a new 2nd gen DDB would not fit. Synergy UCAs and lower fixed control arms are off the suspension list.
Split Bushing Sleeve.JPG
 
Dang, where was this info a year ago. Here I'm still in the honeymoon stage and loving my DDBs. Now it looks like they are doomed for failure. How many miles are on those bushings?
 
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Fargo said:
Dang, where was this info a year ago. Here I'm still in the honeymoon stage and loving my DDBs. Now it looks like they are doomed for failure. How many miles are on those bushings?
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Take it with a grain of salt. I see posts of DF bushings only lasting 10k, but yet I've got 40k on mine with no sign of failure. Pretty subjective at this juncture.
Not diss'n his results. It's good to see some real world results of the different options we have out there.
 
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