Final ideas on build? Let's hope so

[Wildman]

First off I apologize to everyone for being all over the place with ideas and thoughts and crazy ideas. Trying to take some of the advice already given and apply it to final thoughts. I had almost convinced myself that stretching the frame and body was the way to go. I've gone back and reread a lot of comments from other threads I have started or commented in trying to piece all this information together.

If I am going to keep my current tire size I need to stretch my WB to make my TJ work better. I first wanted to keep my Nth Degree longarm suspension and it only took me about 5 DUH's before it became clear that it needed to go. It's hard sometimes to decide to scrap something you spent a lot of money on. I didn't want to do this at first but know I need to.

My second head slam into the wall was at first I wouldn't couldn't give up my under the body fuel tank. I can't tell you what made me change my stance but I am now willing to consider a fuel cell. I'm not going to be running a back seat so that makes things easier I think. I'll keep the stock frame but remove the fuel tank and install a fuel cell. Okay I am stubborn sometimes and it takes me a while to realize I am being pig headed for no logical reason. Hard to admit but there you have it. No rear seat and no full top just a duster on the rear and a safari top with a windjammer. So that makes a fuel cell that much easier.

So we are back to the only thing I will keep out of everything I had done before is my AiRock air bags. From other discussions as long as I run them at one height it isn't any different than running the same in a coil spring except I can still lower it down to help with my ingress and egress. So with all this said and because I have finally seen the light I want to push for a WB of 104".

Now my question is HOW? Yes I know a new suspension system. Custom or? Best case from what I can figure out is the Savvy Mid Arm kit. So hopefully @mrblaine will comment here if this is possible. One picture he shared with me and I hope I'm not wrong for reposting it.

MrBlaine: This is 104 on 37's with 7" of up in the rear and 6.5" of up in the front with an 8" rear stretch and 2ish of front and a 21-22" belly height.

By going with a fuel cell my understand is this is possible and it basically what I would like to end up with. Sorry it took me so long to pull my head out of that dark damp spot.

I know from comments in another thread my HP44 will work and I'm not sure if there is any reason why my CRD60 won't work in the rear. Just need to figure out the link mounts. Please correct me if I am wrong. This is if I can use the Savvy kit which again if I am understanding things correctly it is what Blaine uses.

I need new shocks and @pcoplin at Fullstack Motorsports is going to cover that for me. A forum member on another forum had made some taller front shock mounts and he cut me a set also.
This isn't my TJ YET.

I'll get new shock towers for the rear and move my notch in the frame back to accommodate the new axle position and patch the current notch. I picked up some upper coil spring mounts from Barnes 4WD so I can move the air bags back with the axle.

I've been reading @jjvw build thread and I'll be not the first to say how impressive his work is. I have no idea what my up or down travel is with my current suspension but I do know I need to fix my current bumpstop issue which is I don't have any. So once I get going with the new suspension I will have to cycle my axles and see what I have.

Last is that I will be getting rid of all my steel armor and installing aluminum. I have toyed with going highline fenders and I am now pretty sure that is what I am going to do. Now the only question is who's? I'm torn between TNT, GenRight & JCR but whichever ones I go with they will be aluminum and have a flare to try and cover some of my tire. I looked at running now flare fenders and corner guards but if I did I would have to still figure out a way to mount some flares for when I am driving on the street. So if someone has an idea of knows some way to mount a flare for the front and rear that can be detachable I'm all ears. They need to be 4" wide minimum and 6" wide would be great. And they need to look somewhat appealing.

The interior is also going to get an update, new gauges in my center console. A custom lower center console something like this.

Then get rid of the stock automatic shifter for a Winters Sidewinder flush mount shifter.

And some cable shifters from NW Fabworks

I'm hoping to be able to figure out a way to mount a park brake lever and I want to keep my Tuffy console if I can figure it out.

So what am I missing? I'm sure that there is a ton of things I am not thinking about or missing. But I feel a little better about having a clearer direction to head in.

 

[4speedhandler]

Sounds like a killer plan. from my browsing the only quick detatch fenders i've seen are the metalcloak ones and they arent highline as you'd like but maybe a set of just their rears may work for you with something else up front?

 

[mrblaine]

First point is if a pic it out there, you pretty much don't need permission to post it unless it has a watermark, is protected, and you are using it for your own personal gain without permission from the owner. None of that applies.

The how is like this-

This rig had an existing Savvy rear mid arm bracket set on it. We cut the frame right in front of the midarm bracket and moved it back exactly 8" as shown by the two yellow arrows. It came in a 94", we moved the front forward 2" by virtue of setting the coil over mounts on top of the axle tube which is an automatic stretch since you need the body of the coil over in the part of the frame up front that bends inwards to clear the OEM spring.

 

[Wildman]

Sounds like a killer plan. from my browsing the only quick detatch fenders i've seen are the metalcloak ones and they arent highline as you'd like but maybe a set of just their rears may work for you with something else up front?

Yes I know MetalCloak and no they won't work for what I am trying to do. As you know being from WA they can get a little picky about no tire coverage or mud flaps.

The how is like this-
View attachment 86378
This rig had an existing Savvy rear mid arm bracket set on it. We cut the frame right in front of the midarm bracket and moved it back exactly 8" as shown by the two yellow arrows. It came in a 94", we moved the front forward 2" by virtue of setting the coil over mounts on top of the axle tube which is an automatic stretch since you need the body of the coil over in the part of the frame up front that bends inwards to clear the OEM spring.

Does the same thing have to happen if the rig doesn't have the Savvy brackets on it? What has to done for any of the people looking to stretch their TJ's if they are just installing the Savvy mid arm kit? When you stretched the frame back the 8" did you cut the same off the rear of the frame also?

 

[toximus]

So we are back to the only thing I will keep out of everything I had done before is my AiRock air bags. From other discussions as long as I run them at one height it isn't any different than running the same in a coil spring except I can still lower it down to help with my ingress and egress. So with all this said and because I have finally seen the light I want to push for a WB of 104".

If you really need to adjust your height, why airbags and not a suck down winch? Are you sure you need to adjust the height?

 

[toximus]

What has to done for any of the people looking to stretch their TJ's if they are just installing the Savvy mid arm kit?

Put the cut right about where Blaine shows except put one of the butts into the Savvy mid-arm bracket so you don't need to do an internal sleeve on that end.

When you stretched the frame back the 8" did you cut the same off the rear of the frame also?

You leave it hang out as far as you want it to.

 

[toximus]

my HP44 will work

If you're going off the street and onto any extreme trails, which I assume you plan to since you want to do all of this adjustable height switches thing, I'm not sure the HP44 is going to hold up for you long term on 37s. If you build things right, you're going to be investing hundreds and hundreds of hours into the front axle alone. Save yourself the headache of redoing that work...

 

[Wildman]

If you really need to adjust your height, why airbags and not a suck down winch? Are you sure you need to adjust the height?

Yes I think I do. As I've said before getting in and out of the Jeep is a lot easier when I can lower it down. I've gotten in and out of buddies rigs and with my prosthetic it's a lot easier. Sure I guess I could do suck down winches. Do I run coils or CO's? And once I get out and it's parked what do I do leave it sucked down? Wouldn't that mess up the springs over time? Plus I have the AiRock system so why remove it? The air bags only take up a little more space than a coil spring.

Put the cut right about where Blaine shows except put one of the butts into the Savvy mid-arm bracket so you don't need to do an internal sleeve on that end.



You leave it hang out as far as you want it to.

Okay that make sense.

If you're going off the street and onto any extreme trails, which I assume you plan to since you want to do all of this adjustable height switches thing, I'm not sure the HP44 is going to hold up for you long term on 37s. If you build things right, you're going to be investing hundreds and hundreds of hours into the front axle alone. Save yourself the headache of redoing that work...

I've already got the front axle built and it has been in my TJ since 2006 and on the heavy TSL SX & Hummer rims since 2008. Granted I don't consider what I do extreme but it has lived so far. The only changes I am thinking about might be RCV shafts and keep my current shafts for spares.

 

[toximus]

Ah, airbags may be a good solution then.

A suck down winch would probably be a pain for that use and you shouldn't leave it with a load.

 

[Wildman]

Ah, airbags may be a good solution then.

A suck down winch would probably be a pain for that use and you shouldn't leave it with a load.

Yes the AiRock was kind of a THAT LOOKS KOOL thing when I decided to buy it. It had come out not to long before I went to Iraq and I had read a install article in one of the magazines back then. I really never thought I would get it or be able to afford it until I was wounded and got my TSGLI payment. I look at it now and realize I went spend stupid and didn't plan out my build. As we all wish it would be nice to know then what I know now.

The plus as you said to the air bags is they work for lowering and then returning to ride height. As was discussed in the variable height suspension thread as long as I return it to the same height all the time the suspension geometry should be fine. Are there other ways to make it easier for me to get in and out? Yes but the cost factor is why I am wanting to keep them.
Assuming I have 4.5" of lift from the AiRock then I just need to build it around that height. I am not 100% sure what my actual height is since the Jeep has been park for a few years. Before I start taking all the old suspension off I am going to cycle the AiRock and see what it actually is. I tried to do that earlier this week but my battery was dead. So I have had it charging and as soon as I am able to wear my prosthetic I will get it hooked up and can give some real numbers. I developed a sore on my stump and can't wear my prosthetic until it heals.

With your & Blaine's explanation of how he stretched the TJ to 104" it actually works out better for me. I had already outboarded my rear shocks so I was thinking I would have to remove and repair that. But by shoving the frame back instead I don't think I will. Plus it will move the upper coil mount back so I might not have to relocate that.

When you did your front stretch you said you just used longer front arms with the Savvy kit? Not knowing a lot about the kit did you just get the longer arms from Savvy? I know I am not going to be able to move my front axle forward a lot (2-3" max) but like you showed in your build thread it gives you more tire clearance behind the tire.

Maybe all this isn't going to be worth it I don't know. Becasue the Nth Degree suspension is the only longarm kit I have any experiance with all I know is it has things I didn't like. My thought process for the stretch is becaue of a few real steep hill climbs I had done where my front end got really light. And my understanding is that by making the WB longer it helps with this. I know there are many more experienced people who might confirm this or correct me if I am wrong. I might just be happy with a stock WB rig and a properly setup suspension. But since I am redoing everything I just figured I'd stretch it while I was at it.