I hope when people saw your Jeep with that grille they were using the proper "vehicle neutral" pronouns to refer to it
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A couple observations from that day. The Jeep's turn signals stopped working. And BMWs don't wave back.
Picking up where I left off
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A couple observations from that day. The Jeep's turn signals stopped working. And BMWs don't wave back.
Your dashboard should have been lit up like a Christmas tree as well with warning lights.
Yep, and the cost to replace the lit up warning light panel is more than the vehicle is worth and the new one will also die a horrible death in short order.
Oh, and you also can't install a new ABS unit, because in doing so you have to have the dealer access the DIS software and "program" the new ABS module to accept your VIN so that the ECU rill recognize it.
I found that out the hard way, how almost every "module" in a BMW has to be coded to match the VIN. Talk about a nightmare to work on for the DIY mechanic.
The down leg out of bent angle is only as strong as the smallest cross section. That is the section circled in blue. The bolts into the dash that are supposed to make everything stronger are only 6 mm or 1/4". The flange they are bolted into is 18 gauge sheet metal. You can literally grab ahold of it and flex it back and forth with your fingers when the dash is out. It is unsupported from the bottom of the windshield to about the middle of the door opening. It is not strong or a substantial strengthening area to bolt a cage to. It was only designed to provide a bit of stiffening to the door opening for the hinges and to hold up the dash.
If bent angle were strong enough to be anything resembling a cage, then why not make the B and C pillars out of it along with all the connectors over your head?
I get this.
And the only reason so many companies went with this design is because it was easier to install, is that correct?
If that is the case, what I mentioned a few posts back is true. They made it easier to install in favor of fucking you over in the long term when you have to remove the dash.
The more I look at that design, the more stupid it seems. The idea that those tiny boles and 18 gauge sheet metal are going to stand up to multiple rolls down a steep incline seems silly.
I still can't get past the capturing of the dash though.
Those bent angle legs started before there were cage kits when there was only those or a custom cage. Then that jerk in AZ came up with that bullshit bent angle and everyone copied it. Several companies used to offer the through the dash stuff but no one buys it due to pulling the dash which they don't want to do.
Most of them just bend the top of the down leg over and set a tube on top. TMR is slightly better but both are already offset so that any downward hits start the bending of the angle outwards.
They also play a very neat game of tricking you with the fat section that covers the end of the dash. It gives the impression of something substantial if you ignore the chicken leg right below it. They could save money on material if they just took the small section of angle and continued it straight up to the top of the dash. At least then you could get the speaker trims off easier.
You can literally put a 12" adjustable wrench on the end of those down legs where they attach to the floor after they are welded up and bend them by hand. I don't know any normal person that can do that to a piece of 1.5" .120 wall round tube.
Chris, if you really want to upgrade the factory roll bar. I would find someone who does NASA/SCCA legal cages for actual race cars in your area. I have a good friend who did this for a living for many years and still does a lot each year. His cages combined with the other required safety equipment pass all inspection and have saved many life’s on the racetrack including my wife’s. I learned tube bending and construction from him, and if you where in the area I would be happy to help. Well technically me and Alex would because the bender is at his house strategically to make sure all projects end up there. ;-)
If you want to understand cages better a quick read brought the NASA rule book would help. The roll bar in your Jeep would be slightly different but you would want to incorporate as many of the rules/features as possible.
Starts on page 44.
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/282/2020.3.pdf
One thing to note about those fake flat cages people run. They would not be allowed, for track days you either have to stay stock, or have a signed off certified cage. To actual race you must have a signed off cage. Those things are neither fish or fowl and would imagine they are likely to be more dangerous.
I am confused how the discussion about the front legs keeps coming up as an option at all. No racing organization anywhere would allow that.
In SCCA/NASA you could do time trail style racing with just a certified/legal roll bar only and they would sign off on it. If you added this crappy front plate down leg things you would not be allowed on track. Said another way, they would view your car as safer if those sections didn’t even exist.
Pull the dash put. Put the appropriate size tubing down behind it, to the appropriate size plate on the tub. Or don’t do it at all.
If you want to understand cages better a quick read brought the NASA rule book would help. The roll bar in your Jeep would be slightly different but you would want to incorporate as many of the rules/features as possible.
Starts on page 44.
https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/282/2020.3.pdf
One thing to note about those fake flat cages people run. They would not be allowed, for track days you either have to stay stock, or have a signed off certified cage. To actual race you must have a signed off cage. Those things are neither fish or fowl and would imagine they are likely to be more dangerous.
I am confused how the discussion about the front legs keeps coming up as an option at all. No racing organization anywhere would allow that.
In SCCA/NASA you could do time trail style racing with just a certified/legal roll bar only and they would sign off on it. If you added this crappy front plate down leg things you would not be allowed on track. Said another way, they would view your car as safer if those sections didn’t even exist.
Pull the dash put. Put the appropriate size tubing down behind it, to the appropriate size plate on the tub. Or don’t do it at all.
Those cage kits are still being made and sold because they are much easier to install. Same reason they still sell bolt on long arm kits. Seems cool to the unenlightened, and you can still bolt it in. Much easier than doing it right.
If you route the tubing behind the dash correctly, you can clear the ducts without any issue. But again, it’s not easy to do it correctly.
If you route the tubing behind the dash correctly, you can clear the ducts without any issue. But again, it’s not easy to do it correctly.
Just for the record, I was never even considering those cages with the legs we are talking about. This isn’t something I just wanted to knock out really quick, I’ve been doing the research, so thank you for all the information you provided as well.
Ultimately what I need to do is just get Blaine to give me a date for outboarding shocks and just see if he feels up to doing a cage at the same time.
Either that or make my way up to where you and Alex are, but that might make for a long trip, and with the kids in school it would be hard to juggle.
Do you know the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine?A couple observations from that day. The Jeep's turn signals stopped working. And BMWs don't wave back.
I think I know, but I'll play along.
What is the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine?
My guess is the BMW the prick is on the inside or something like that.
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