What do I need for my first time off roading?

Agreed... I learned early on the question shouldn't be "Can I?", it is "Should I?". A bone stock SE is an amazingly capable off road rig. If you go out and look at some of the videos of the folks driving the old stock military Jeeps off road you'll see them doing trails and going places you wouldn't think possible. Amazing stuff. Our modern Jeeps are orders of magnitude more capable.
 
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Agreed... I learned early on the question shouldn't be "Can I?", it is "Should I?". A bone stock SE is an amazingly capable off road rig. If you go out and look at some of the videos of the folks driving the old stock military Jeeps off road you'll see them doing trails and going places you wouldn't think possible. Amazing stuff. Our modern Jeeps are orders of magnitude more capable.

Couldn't agree more! It's much more about driver skill than it is how built your rig is. Sure, the latter will help, but nothing can replace a good driver!
 
common sense and restraint

My first 4x4 was a '53 M38. Opened my eyes to restraint. It would idle up a ski hill. And run across a creek completely submerged... but hit the throttle????? even with the 4 cylinder flathead... instant disaster.

My next 4x4 was a '78 F250 Crewcab. You learn real fast how to avoid getting stuck in something that heavy. 4 wheeling is all about control. And if you value keeping areas open for us to 4 wheel in... learn how to tread lightly. More than just packing out what you took in..... Leave no trace you were there. Air down... Do not let a wheel spin!!! And the fanatics gating trails will disappear.
 
And the fanatics gating trails will disappear.

I guess I haven't had to deal with this around where I am from. However, I also don't have the off-roading experience that some of you veterans have. Is this starting to be a really big issue?
 
It's getting more common. Not so much on public lands, but the private timber companies are closing and locking more gates than I remember even a few years ago. Willamette National Forest is closing and removing some roads, and berming others. We've still got a lot of territory to run up in our neck of the woods, Chris, but things have changed some in the last bunch of years.
 
It's getting more common. Not so much on public lands, but the private timber companies are closing and locking more gates than I remember even a few years ago. Willamette National Forest is closing and removing some roads, and berming others. We've still got a lot of territory to run up in our neck of the woods, Chris, but things have changed some in the last bunch of years.

Why do you think that is? Is it due to trespassing and idiots trashing the land with their rigs or what? I guess I am just curious since this is news to me.
 
Trespassing, vandalism, erosion control and pressure from environmental organizations is what I"m seeing. It's not even the Jeeper's per se that are the cause. Here's a classic example: There was a really nice shooting spot up on Meadow Lake road out of Carleton that the family and I used to go to for a little sport on the weekends sometimes. It was a very large area with several 100 yard long log landings and acres of reprod. The land was private timber company land, owned by a company out of Australia. A couple of years ago the land was sold to Weyerhauser. Soon after it was posted no shooting. Fair enough, but it was only posted on one trail into the area. If you came in the back way, you never saw the signs. The area was just trashed. On several occasions we found things like a fiberglass boat dumped and shot to ribbons, a pickup camper dumped and torn apart. There was a camp trailer up there that someone had dumped and started to tear apart and burn. TV's and other junk were dumped randomly. There were signs that people were going up there and grabbing Christmas trees. Some of the trees were literately shot to pieces. Brass and shotgun hulls were everywhere. Lots of places where 4x4's had gone off the skid roads and torn up the land, with major erosion resulting. A couple of places somebody had done the side hill thing on road cuts, causing the hill side to collapse and the road to wash out. The Sheriff's Department would send a deputy up there occasionally to chase people off, but that had to be a bad experience for the deputies. I know I wouldn't want to chase armed drunks off of private land more than once or twice. Weyerhauser finally put up gates and completely closed the area. This is a pretty extreme example, but less extreme examples are pretty common, especially in areas close to the mainlines and public roads. Luckily, the same folks who do this sort of thing don't venture very far off the beaten path. The results are that access points to the deep back country are getting closed off with gates on private lands and the ditch / berm thing on public lands. Mostly the access points along or next to Highway 18, 6, and 26. Highway 30 access is still pretty good. Access to the hills from the Dallas area is pretty horrible, with lots of gated private land down that way. If I see this sort of thing (dumping, Vandalism, driving off the roads / trails) I'll turn'em in to the local Sheriff, but that is a loosing proposition. Most of the Sheriffs don't have the resources to do anything about it.
 
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You know, this subject really deserves it's own thread. There's a lot more to "Tread Lightly" than a nice slogan. Like billiebob mentioned, airing down, no wheel spin, etc. are techniques that could stand a lot of discussion and a few pictures. It's one thing to go up to Brown's Camp and do a little wheeling on the designated trails. It's an entirely different ball game to make the run from Tillamook to Vernonia to St. Helens or Rainer. Different Jeep setup, and different style of off roading entirely. For instance, let's take airing down. With the current style of off roading airing down is all about traction. With ridge running it's all about ground loading. I can go anywhere I want with my current 215-75R15 tires. The ground loading on those is too high though. It damages the trails. At street pressure, the stock tires load the ground at about 19 pounds per square inch. Airing down drops that into the 15 - 16 pounds per square inch range. Not much of a difference, but it is noticeable on the trail. When I eventually go to 31x10.50 - 15 tires, the ground loading drops to about 10 pounds per square inch at street pressure and way down to around 2 or 3 pounds per square inch when aired down. There is a LOT less damage done at 2-3 PSI ground loading than there is at 19 PSI.
 
Trespassing, vandalism, erosion control and pressure from environmental organizations is what I"m seeing. It's not even the Jeeper's per se that are the cause. Here's a classic example: There was a really nice shooting spot up on Meadow Lake road out of Carleton that the family and I used to go to for a little sport on the weekends sometimes. It was a very large area with several 100 yard long log landings and acres of reprod. The land was private timber company land, owned by a company out of Australia. A couple of years ago the land was sold to Weyerhauser. Soon after it was posted no shooting. Fair enough, but it was only posted on one trail into the area. If you came in the back way, you never saw the signs. The area was just trashed. On several occasions we found things like a fiberglass boat dumped and shot to ribbons, a pickup camper dumped and torn apart. There was a camp trailer up there that someone had dumped and started to tear apart and burn. TV's and other junk were dumped randomly. There were signs that people were going up there and grabbing Christmas trees. Some of the trees were literately shot to pieces. Brass and shotgun hulls were everywhere. Lots of places where 4x4's had gone off the skid roads and torn up the land, with major erosion resulting. A couple of places somebody had done the side hill thing on road cuts, causing the hill side to collapse and the road to wash out. The Sheriff's Department would send a deputy up there occasionally to chase people off, but that had to be a bad experience for the deputies. I know I wouldn't want to chase armed drunks off of private land more than once or twice. Weyerhauser finally put up gates and completely closed the area. This is a pretty extreme example, but less extreme examples are pretty common, especially in areas close to the mainlines and public roads. Luckily, the same folks who do this sort of thing don't venture very far off the beaten path. The results are that access points to the deep back country are getting closed off with gates on private lands and the ditch / berm thing on public lands. Mostly the access points along or next to Highway 18, 6, and 26. Highway 30 access is still pretty good. Access to the hills from the Dallas area is pretty horrible, with lots of gated private land down that way. If I see this sort of thing (dumping, Vandalism, driving off the roads / trails) I'll turn'em in to the local Sheriff, but that is a loosing proposition. Most of the Sheriffs don't have the resources to do anything about it.

WOW! See, this is all news to me being as though I haven't been around the off-road world as long as some of you guys have. I don't know who does shit like this, but I've got to assume there's alcohol involved, a long with a lot of rednecks and white trash. It sounds these kind of people are ruining it for the rest of us who want to enjoy the land in a responsible manner.

I'm sure @billiebob can chime in on this as well since it seems that he sees a lot of this where he's from in Canada.
 
You know, this subject really deserves it's own thread. There's a lot more to "Tread Lightly" than a nice slogan. Like billiebob mentioned, airing down, no wheel spin, etc. are techniques that could stand a lot of discussion and a few pictures. It's one thing to go up to Brown's Camp and do a little wheeling on the designated trails. It's an entirely different ball game to make the run from Tillamook to Vernonia to St. Helens or Rainer. Different Jeep setup, and different style of off roading entirely. For instance, let's take airing down. With the current style of off roading airing down is all about traction. With ridge running it's all about ground loading. I can go anywhere I want with my current 215-75R15 tires. The ground loading on those is too high though. It damages the trails. At street pressure, the stock tires load the ground at about 19 pounds per square inch. Airing down drops that into the 15 - 16 pounds per square inch range. Not much of a difference, but it is noticeable on the trail. When I eventually go to 31x10.50 - 15 tires, the ground loading drops to about 10 pounds per square inch at street pressure and way down to around 2 or 3 pounds per square inch when aired down. There is a LOT less damage done at 2-3 PSI ground loading than there is at 19 PSI.

Hey, maybe I could make a new thread out of this... What do you think this thread could be titled @StG58?
 
"Tread Lightly" is a natural. Tips, techniques, how to and why. Lots of people give this lip service, lots of people try to practice this, but it's really hard to find an in depth discussion on it. We need to get the Tips, techniques and how to's out there. And the why's of "Tread Lightly".
 
The single most important item to take with you, especially if you are new at this, but good advice for anyone out 4 wheeling, is DON'T GO ALONE. Best case is go with somebody with experience to help guide you on what to do and what not to do. and not the "hold my beer and watch this" guy. Find a jeep group or 4 wheeling group in your area and ask to tag along. Most will be glad to show you the ropes and most are family friendly as well.
 
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I second that, never go alone!


All in favor? The "I's" have it, no opposed, motion passed!!

All great advice here..as an engineer and former boy scout my list is long and overdone. But the very best thing you can do is hone your skills by starting small and attempting obstacles (with an experienced friend with recovery equipment) a little at a time on legal land/trails. Trespassing and basic douchbaggery screws us ALL
12366487_10153888174986337_8432968738258067284_n.jpg
 
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All in favor? The "I's" have it, no opposed, motion passed!!

All great advice here..as an engineer and former boy scout my list is long and overdone. But the very best thing you can do is hone your skills by starting small and attempting obstacles (with an experienced friend with recovery equipment) a little at a time on legal land/trails. Trespassing and basic douchbaggery screws us ALL
View attachment 1196

Amen to that! That sign speaks the truth. I hate when the asshats ruin it for the rest of us.
 
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Oh man, I may be guilty of serious ass-hattery and negligence.

I rarely go with anyone else. I drive the Forest Service roads, and the old skid roads and access trails. I don't drive cross country though, and don't do any brush busting. Am I a 4x4 sinner?

Seriously, some of the roads and trails that I go on haven't seen a rig in years. When the map says "Jeep Trail" you have to take that as gospel. You really couldn't safely take anything bigger or less capable over them.
 
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Oh man, I may be guilty of serious ass-hattery and negligence.

I rarely go with anyone else.

You're not the only one, I'm guilty of this as well. Perhaps it's the fact that none of my friends have 4x4s, or maybe it's the fact that all of my 'friends' aren't much of friends anymore ever since we had kids and such. They're all still single (and well into their 30s) so there isn't much in common anymore.
 
I know how that works Chris. Been there. On the other side of the coin, it's great to get the kids out into the woods and back country in general. I've got a ton of stories about the daughters and their adventures. We still talk and laugh about some of them. Now it's the grandkids turn.

Running the ridges with someone else is good and necessary up to a point. I seriously recommend it for most folks. On the other hand, I've been heading into the back country since the early 70's by myself. My Dad and Grand Dad were doing it way before then. It was mostly hiking when I was younger and in better physical condition though. THAT is treading lightly. I have gotten home late, but no one has ever had to come rescue me.
 
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When I do go by myself I carry my satellite phone and I'm also much more cautious than I would be if I was with other people.

It is lots of fun for the kids though, my daughter loves it!
 
I'm always cautious. Even so, at some point I know that what I do will bite me in the backsides.

I do have to amend my statement about never having to be rescued. It has happened once, in my last Cherokee. It was a matter of bad decision making. Popped the front tires over a downed tree across the road and then couldn't get the back over, or the front back over. Hiked out about 5 miles to get the oldest daughter and her husband. Completely forgot that I had a saw in my backpack. It was a case of making a bad decision with "can I" vs. "should I".

Getting the kiddos out is probably one of the best things we can do. The sense of wonder and amazement they have is priceless. What they learn and experience is also priceless. Lots of people talk about nature and the wilderness. Very few have any first hand experience, and that experience makes all the difference in the world. Billybob Badass gets a whole new perspective and Sally Bunnyhugger learns a few things after a night or two in the deep woods. Especially by themselves at night in the deep woods. "Welcome to the food chain" opens a few eyes and changes a few minds, it seems. And that, even though there is no particular danger involved.