Electric TJ?

[Woodrow]

Put the pitchforks back in the barn and settle down.

I’m thinking out loud. I love V8s, straight 6s, flat 4s and other IC engines (except maybe the V6…). But it seems to me there could be some big potential advantages to an electric powertrain in a straight axle 4x4 like a TJ. I don’t mean a hybrid like the 4xe JL even though it apparently has the same torque as the hemi JL. I’m talking about all electric power. Yep, range anxiety is a concern but my TJ with a 19 gallon tank (a hangy downy thing also in the way of a stretch) doesn‘t have great range either.

Electric motors make all of their torque at 0 rpm, are very compact and only need a flexible cable to connect them to their power source. So for crawling to highway driving, shifting gears would really not be necessary. A motor could be mounted at the center of each axle in place of the differential and no driveline upstream of the axle (or gas tank) would be needed. This avoids much of the weight and the huge frictional losses in a traditional set up and simplifies suspension packaging. Battery placement and weight are issues but the elimination of engine, trans, transfer case and driveshafts as well as the modularity of batteries increase options.

There are obviously a bunch of talented builders and drivers on this forum. I’d like to know what you think of the possible pros and cons? My real question is: Could an electric TJ not just work, but actually be a better rock crawler? We are starting to see electric UTVs like the Polaris Ranger EV. Are you aware of anyone in the off-road community that has built something similar, maybe an e-buggy?

 

[CharlesHS]

Here is a Tesla motor in a '97 TJ.

https://www.4x4setup.com/2021/07/24/jeep-tj-1997-with-a-tesla-engine/

 

[1o1proof]

You may be able to pick one up from the dealer sooner than you think....

 

[TheBoogieman]

You may be able to pick one up from the dealer sooner than you think....

Will it cost more than the $9,000 I paid for my TJ?
p.s. I smell a lawsuit coming.

 

[Woodrow]

Here is a Tesla motor in a '97 TJ.

https://www.4x4setup.com/2021/07/24/jeep-tj-1997-with-a-tesla-engine/

That's interesting (same year and color as mine too). I've seen various Tesla motor conversions into gas vehicles and there's a company called Electric GT (https://electricgt.com/gte-motors/) that does conversions and sells electric crate motors. Still very expensive, however. Most conversions seem to attach the electric motor to the front of the transmission (including the Jeep Magneto concept). This guy at least, removed the trans. It still seems like leaving simplicity and packaging advantages on the table, though. With a motor in each axle, you could direct drive to the axle shafts and get rid of the t-case and driveshafts. Its not hard to imagine turning on/off power to each axle separately or even each wheel individually.

 

[macleanflood]

I actually priced some of this out a couple of years ago. Netgain I think.

You can get electric motors and put 1350 yokes directly on them...find spots to tuck them up in the center where the transmission/t-case lived.

Find used batteries...tons of hybrid battery packs available used...load up the engine compartment and fuel tank spot

I figured I could build one for 15 to 20k including a salvage title tub/frame, G2 axles, motors, driveshafts, batteries, controllers, charger and heater.

-Mac

 

[jjvw]

That's interesting (same year and color as mine too). I've seen various Tesla motor conversions into gas vehicles and there's a company called Electric GT (https://electricgt.com/gte-motors/) that does conversions and sells electric crate motors. Still very expensive, however. Most conversions seem to attach the electric motor to the front of the transmission (including the Jeep Magneto concept). This guy at least, removed the trans. It still seems like leaving simplicity and packaging advantages on the table, though. With a motor in each axle, you could direct drive to the axle shafts and get rid of the t-case and driveshafts. Its not hard to imagine turning on/off power to each axle separately or even each wheel individually.

With an existing suspension, an electric motor on the transfer case feels the most efficient as far as packaging is concerned. If there is a reason to keep a transmission, or at least a stock transmission, I don't understand it yet.

Getting a pair of powerful enough motors inside or at the existing axles doesn't feel plausible.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

That's interesting (same year and color as mine too). I've seen various Tesla motor conversions into gas vehicles and there's a company called Electric GT (https://electricgt.com/gte-motors/) that does conversions and sells electric crate motors. Still very expensive, however. Most conversions seem to attach the electric motor to the front of the transmission (including the Jeep Magneto concept). This guy at least, removed the trans. It still seems like leaving simplicity and packaging advantages on the table, though. With a motor in each axle, you could direct drive to the axle shafts and get rid of the t-case and driveshafts. Its not hard to imagine turning on/off power to each axle separately or even each wheel individually.

eGT system adequate for a TJ would be $49K... I can get a wrangler 4xe for that...

 

[OldBuzzard]

I like electric motors for vehicles, but Range Anxiety is my number one concern. My favorite wheeling area is 300 miles from home, and I pull a camper trailer with my LJ. Gas mileage sucks, but I can fill up in 5 minutes. So a 6 hour drive might need a few gas stops, but stretching my legs for a few minutes is a good thing. And there are a couple of gas stations in every little one-horse town along the way.

Pulling a trailer on the same trip with an EV is going to need at least one, maybe two full recharges (range will be severely limited when pulling a 3000 lb trailer). What's that going to do to my travel time? Recharges are sloooow, even if there is no waiting line, and if you can even find a station out in the boonies. It will take a lot more trip planning, and maybe an extra overnight stay, for what used to be a 6 hour trip.

And then, to get a little wheeling in upon arrival, I need to recharge yet again. And I can't carry a couple of jerry cans offroad, so what happens when a TJ runs out of battery on a rough trail? Can't just carry gas to it, and can't recharge out in the woods. Will rescue crews start carrying giant generators? Will have to drag it out of there.

I want electric motors to work in a 4WD situation, the advantages are amazing. But for the foreseeable future, I think they work better for local commuters than for wheeling, unless you live near your favorite trails.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Will rescue crews start carrying giant generators? Will have to drag it out of there.

Chinook helicopters!

 

[Sancho]

Will it cost more than the $9,000 I paid for my TJ?
p.s. I smell a lawsuit coming.
View attachment 313003

In 10 years, 2 tanks of gas will exceed $9000.

 

[OFF2BFE]

I want one!!!

 

[OFF2BFE]

Just not smart enough to make it happen

 

[srimes]

MOA would be awesome! Get rid of driveshafts!

Range anxiety is a HUGE issue. Look at how many people have a 19 gallon tank and carry extra gas. With batteries you're stuck with the equivalent of a 3 gallon tank and no easy way to refill away from a charging station.

I'd want a generator. 10-15hp would probably cover trail use and maintain charge, then you'd just need to make sure the battery capacity can cover the trip to and from.

 

[Woodrow]

With an existing suspension, an electric motor on the transfer case feels the most efficient as far as packaging is concerned. If there is a reason to keep a transmission, or at least a stock transmission, I don't understand it yet.

Getting a pair of powerful enough motors inside or at the existing axles doesn't feel plausible.

I believe some EVs actually place individual motors at each wheel. That's what makes me think one per axle is possible (but I can't give you dimensions or power output specs). If it WAS possible, I envision being able to buy an aftermarket axle/motor combo. Then you'd delete your whole drivetrain, bolt up the new units, mount your modular batteries, a few wires, a little software and BAM, you're done. Right? In all seriousness, if that became available, I think a lot of folks on this forum would be more than capable of doing it.

 

[OFF2BFE]

Ford F-150 lightning uses one on the front one on the rear… AWD but the battery pack weighs as much as a TJ

 

[Apparition]

With a staggering 835 horsepower and 908 pound-feet of torque from its four, 18,500-rpm electric motors, the Rivian scorches 60 mph in about 3.5 seconds, faster than many sports cars.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/amp/rivian-truck-2655946831

 

[jjvw]

I believe some EVs actually place individual motors at each wheel. That's what makes me think one per axle is possible (but I can't give you dimensions or power output specs). If it WAS possible, I envision being able to buy an aftermarket axle/motor combo. Then you'd delete your whole drivetrain, bolt up the new units, mount your modular batteries, a few wires, a little software and BAM, you're done. Right? In all seriousness, if that became available, I think a lot of folks on this forum would be more than capable of doing it.

In a future perfect world, I would gladly and prefer to go full electric rather than a ICE engine swap when that time comes. I also don't necessarily want to give up my suspension.

Motors on each wheel, may be preferable. But that sounds like a blank slate build, rather than adapting what I already have.

 

[Apparition]

In a future perfect world, I would gladly and prefer to go full electric rather than a ICE engine swap when that time comes. I also don't necessarily want to give up my suspension.

Motors on each wheel, may be preferable. But that sounds like a blank slate build, rather than adapting what I already have.

Think of the portal axle possibilities...

 

[InOmaha]

I'd go for a diesel electric hybrid. They could still remove the transmission and drivetrain. Generate replacement power with a smaller diesel genset sized just big enough to power along at 75 mph if needed and do some charging to extend range.

EVs are focusing on flashy speeds and performance to lure in customers. They could extend their range by making cars more suitable for typical road use and limiting performance.

Off roading has a different set of design criteria. I don't need to get to 60 in under 4 seconds. I'd rather have more battery capacity.