Watch out, all of a sudden your build will be full of self tappers
Nashville TJ's Build - Continued
- Thread starter NashvilleTJ
- Start date
Gotta tell you, that took me a minute...
HVAC dudes love em.
He’s realizing it needs more LS.
Truth. Putting an LS fan in front of the Hemi may get me thrown out of the Hemi club....
Cue Rick's response in 3.... 2....1....
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Truth. Putting an LS fan in front of the Hemi may get me thrown out of the Hemi club....
Cue Rick's response in 3.... 2....1....
Well if we're getting technical we've both got what's classified as Chevy radiators in our rigs... But they're only called that because a SBC used the same inlet & outlet locations....
When I tried this my radiator wasn't anywhere near large enough for that Camero fan. I think a down flow radiator would have a larger core on it from all the measurements I've read online... Mine is a crossflow.
I got up around 220* a couple of times while at Sand Hollow and that was without A/C on.
Mine is a cross flow as well, and the shroud is about 18x18, so I know I'm going to have to get a little creative. I won't have a plan until I see the actual fan - it's a little bit of a risk at this point.
I didn't measure my core when I had the radiator out last time but you cand see how the fan sat on mine.. Here's a 4.0 shroud sitting on my radiator.
Wizard Cooling shows the core at 18.5" high & 18" wide.
I chalked one up in the electrical win column today.
I run AGM batteries in the rig, but the charging system puts out voltage for lead acid. Lead acids require something like 13.5-14.5 volts for proper charging, the actual level usually driven by the battery temperature - the hotter the battery temp the lower the charging voltage. To properly charge an AGM, the voltage needs to be 14.4-14.5 volts.
And in fact, the meter verifies my current setup - at idle:
On the Jeep 4.0 ECU, you can change the charging parameters using HP Tuners. But I run a Premier Power Welder, which bypasses the ECU and controls the charging output directly.
Looking for a solution, I called Premier and spoke to Greg - who is the owner. I've spoken to him a few times in the past - mainly for issues running his stuff on the Hemi - he is a good guy and really knows his stuff.
The Premier has a physical voltage regulator - that's it on top:
Greg told me what you guys have already guessed - it is adjustable. Turns out, there is a hidden screw on the bottom of the unit. Two guesses as to what it does...
A quick - and very slight - adjustment (Greg told me to be very careful), and I'm golden:
It now runs between about 14.42 and 14.48 at idle.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason I've had some longevity issues with my AGMs. I should have found out about this about 15 years ago.....
I run AGM batteries in the rig, but the charging system puts out voltage for lead acid. Lead acids require something like 13.5-14.5 volts for proper charging, the actual level usually driven by the battery temperature - the hotter the battery temp the lower the charging voltage. To properly charge an AGM, the voltage needs to be 14.4-14.5 volts.
And in fact, the meter verifies my current setup - at idle:
On the Jeep 4.0 ECU, you can change the charging parameters using HP Tuners. But I run a Premier Power Welder, which bypasses the ECU and controls the charging output directly.
Looking for a solution, I called Premier and spoke to Greg - who is the owner. I've spoken to him a few times in the past - mainly for issues running his stuff on the Hemi - he is a good guy and really knows his stuff.
The Premier has a physical voltage regulator - that's it on top:
Greg told me what you guys have already guessed - it is adjustable. Turns out, there is a hidden screw on the bottom of the unit. Two guesses as to what it does...
A quick - and very slight - adjustment (Greg told me to be very careful), and I'm golden:
It now runs between about 14.42 and 14.48 at idle.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason I've had some longevity issues with my AGMs. I should have found out about this about 15 years ago.....
I chalked one up in the electrical win column today.
I run AGM batteries in the rig, but the charging system puts out voltage for lead acid. Lead acids require something like 13.5-14.5 volts for proper charging, the actual level usually driven by the battery temperature - the hotter the battery temp the lower the charging voltage. To properly charge an AGM, the voltage needs to be 14.4-14.5 volts.
And in fact, the meter verifies my current setup - at idle:
View attachment 704030
On the Jeep 4.0 ECU, you can change the charging parameters using HP Tuners. But I run a Premier Power Welder, which bypasses the ECU and controls the charging output directly.
Looking for a solution, I called Premier and spoke to Greg - who is the owner. I've spoken to him a few times in the past - mainly for issues running his stuff on the Hemi - he is a good guy and really knows his stuff.
The Premier has a physical voltage regulator - that's it on top:
View attachment 704031
Greg told me what you guys have already guessed - it is adjustable. Turns out, there is a hidden screw on the bottom of the unit. Two guesses as to what it does...
View attachment 704032
A quick - and very slight - adjustment (Greg told me to be very careful), and I'm golden:
View attachment 704033
It now runs between about 14.42 and 14.48 at idle.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason I've had some longevity issues with my AGMs. I should have found out about this about 15 years ago.....
Over the years we have run dual red top optimas in our back country Grand Waggy and we found with the amount of time it sits not putting any kind of charge to the batteries was what was killing them off. We finally put a Harbor Freight solar tender on the dash and haven't had a problem since..
(Right after saying that, me frantically looking around for some real solid wood to knock on)
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The LS's ECTs usually run around 197*-199* and didn't go above 205* in Sand Hollow with the cross-flow radiator and 500W brushless Spal. That's still the case now when driving the LJ across town in 110* plus heat. I many times see the temps at the 192* rating, which is how I learned what thermostat is in the engine. The current 195* fan sensor has the fan running harder (louder) than I need it too, but the next jump to 215* isn't a good idea for my climate or application (allowed the transmission to go from not hot at all to too hot since the fan would barely spin with ECTs around 200*).
While the TJ's Camaro fan has a bit more agitating higher pitch and sounds pretty ridiculous near 100%, it also runs quieter than the 500W setup when it's not running hard since the Lingenfelter controller allows the Camaro fan to ramp down more. I know the Camaro fan works because I've switched the fan to 100% at intersections to drop the ECTs and get cooler AC temps for my dog on hot days. This isn't necessary if you set your high-speed setting more aggressive for the summer like I did last year when I was driving more often.
Regarding alternators, the 250A unit I installed came with a little regulator harness that sets a higher nominal float target voltage and gives the PCM whatever signal it needs to not pop a CEL. So far so good.
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Parts are in.
I also picked up the vehicle side wiring harness from Summit. Although the connector on my current 500 watt Spal fan is exactly the same connector, I'm planning to keep all of that intact in case I need to swap back for some reason.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPU-S0008
Now to start working on an elegant way to build a shroud to mount it.
It will be hard to beat the elegance of my current setup. The 500 actually sits recessed into the shroud for a very clean install.
I also picked up the vehicle side wiring harness from Summit. Although the connector on my current 500 watt Spal fan is exactly the same connector, I'm planning to keep all of that intact in case I need to swap back for some reason.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPU-S0008
Now to start working on an elegant way to build a shroud to mount it.
It will be hard to beat the elegance of my current setup. The 500 actually sits recessed into the shroud for a very clean install.
Without putting too much thought into it, I would run 90* brackets from the fan to the shroud.
Edit:
I don't think it's needed, but you could add adhesive backed foam gasket strips to help seal it against the shroud. Might need to shave flat spots on the washers you use for mounting to the fan so they sit flush to the shroud.
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I have the exact same fan. The fan motor/fan blade can be unbolted from the stock factory plastic shroud. 3 nuts/studs hold it in.
I bought an aftermarket custom shroud and “spider” from Jeep Speed Shop to mount it tight to my radiator. All I had to do was weld on the provided mounting tabs to the shroud. They come loose so they can be welded on where it makes the most sense, considering so many different radiators can be used.
Google picture, but I can get detailed pictures of mine, if you would like to take some design details away.
Now that I've had the Camaro fan in hand for a few days, I'm beginning to think through some ideas on how best to mount this bugger. I'm thinking of building a completely custom shroud in aluminum - something like this:
And possibly using a mounting approach something like @MichaelGH posted above. The fan is just a bit bigger than my radiator core, and this approach would seal the overlaps at the top and bottom.
I'm not in any hurry at all, so I have time to digest my approach. But, since I'm thinking about doing this all in aluminum - I'm also giving serious thought to finally breaking down and pulling the trigger on a TIG machine, and learning to TIG aluminum. I could also do it out of steel, and not pay too much of a weight penalty. I do think that would be a valid approach - but I've been looking for an excuse for a TIG machine, so there is that...
Any thoughts on this approach?
And possibly using a mounting approach something like @MichaelGH posted above. The fan is just a bit bigger than my radiator core, and this approach would seal the overlaps at the top and bottom.
I'm not in any hurry at all, so I have time to digest my approach. But, since I'm thinking about doing this all in aluminum - I'm also giving serious thought to finally breaking down and pulling the trigger on a TIG machine, and learning to TIG aluminum. I could also do it out of steel, and not pay too much of a weight penalty. I do think that would be a valid approach - but I've been looking for an excuse for a TIG machine, so there is that...
Any thoughts on this approach?
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Now that I've had the Camaro fan in hand for a few days, I'm beginning to think through some ideas on how best to mount this bugger. I'm thinking of building a completely custom shroud in aluminum - something like this:
View attachment 704430
View attachment 704433
View attachment 704431
And possibly using a mounting approach something like @MichaelGH posted above. The fan is just a bit bigger than my radiator core, and this approach would seal the overlaps at the top and bottom.
I'm not in any hurry at all, so I have time to digest my approach. But, since I'm thinking about doing this all in aluminum - I'm also giving serious thought to finally breaking down and pulling the trigger on a TIG machine, and leaning to TIG aluminum. I could also do it out of steel, and not pay too much of a weight penalty. I do think that would be a valid approach - but I've been looking for an excuse for a TIG machine, so there is that...
Any thoughts on this approach?
Yep. I like it. Both the design and the aluminum TIG.
Michael - Do you have a link for your mount? I see there is a shroud kit on Jeep Speed, but there is no picture or any detail.
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