Brown Dog.

There is definitely a difference in vibrations when I backed the stover nuts off the MM bracket entirely. The head and nut are just barely off the bracket, maybe just touching. I think this should be ok, but I want to ask more knowledgeable folks.

These nuts are threadlocked flexible steel. I think it’s the friction between the nut and bolt that is all that’s necessary to secure everything.

It’s actually very livable with them like this.
 
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Brown Dog.

There is definitely a difference in vibrations when I backed the stover nuts off the MM bracket entirely. The head and nut are just barely off the bracket, maybe just touching. I think this should be ok, but I want to ask more knowledgeable folks.

These nuts are threadlocked flexible steel. I think it’s the friction between the nut and bolt that is all that’s necessary to secure everything.

It’s actually very livable with them like this.

That makes me nervous. Unless I'm missing something, I think it introduces a small amount of motion into a place where there should be none. Ultimately, I would expect nut loosening or bolt failure. Any reason not to use stock style mounts with lift blocks (other than the PITA factor)?
 
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That makes me nervous. Unless I'm missing something, I think it introduces a small amount of motion into a place where there should be none. Ultimately, I would expect nut loosening or bolt failure. Any reason not to use stock style mounts with lift blocks (other than the PITA factor)?

No real reason. I do want to learn about this type of fastener though and if it is sufficient in my current configuration f the nut and bolt. It really cuts down on vibrations. The real issue in my mind is if the friction force that holds this type of connection is solely between the nut and bolt threads, or if the added friction of the nut and head face against the mounting bracket contributes to holding the connection. From what I read it sounds like it's should be solely between the threads of the nut and bolt.

Strangely, on Brown Dog website they repeatedly say, "make sure and follow proper torque specs for Brown Dog MM installation." Search as you may there are no torque specs on the website. In a couple of places it says to "get them snug, but don't over-tighten".

Here's what I put together from reading about stover/top lock nuts/prevailing torque lock nut/et. al., names.

A lock nut is a special type of nut that won’t loosen even exposed to vibrations...It has a locking mechanism that’s built into the cone, as you put it on, it starts to act like a locking nut due to the distortion of their top threads, creating frictional interference between the threads of the mating components which is said to be capable of withstanding severe vibration and shock loads. When fastening a prevailing torque lock nut, there is a resistance to rotation during both assembly and disassembly requiring them to be wrenched; that resistance is called prevailing torque. The advantage is that disassembly is unlikely even if preload diminishes completely because of the remaining rotational resistance. Because they stay put without being seated, they are used as stop nuts or spacers for rotating or other components.They can be adjusted or removed after installation.

Stover lock nuts are reusable a limited number of times because the prevailing torque declines each time the nut is used (my one area of concern). Always follow the manufacturer's recommendations regarding nut reuse, thread lubricants and torque values. Do not apply standard torque values to prevailing torque lock nuts because the joint may not be tightened to the correct clamping force due to the additional friction of the locking element (very interesting).
 
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No real reason. I do want to learn about this type of fastener though and if it is sufficient in my current configuration f the nut and bolt. It really cuts down on vibrations. The real issue in my mind is if the friction force that holds this type of connection is solely between the nut and bolt threads, or if the added friction of the nut and head face against the mounting bracket contributes to holding the connection. From what I read it sounds like it's should be solely between the threads of the nut and bolt.

A bolted joint connection relies on the clamp created between the members to carry the load. Once the bolt on the motor mount is stretched due to torque, the interface between the mount tabs and bushing inner metal is now carrying the load and the bolt only sees the tension created by torque (bolt preload). If the fastener loses tension it will be subjected to the loads seen by the joint. This will lead to eventual fatigue of the bolt or a general wallowing out of the mounting tabs. This is regardless of nut type.

The stover style nut may not back off once loose, but the joint will still be susceptible to the wear and eventual fatigue of the bolt.
 
You have found the exact reason I think Brown dog mounts should go straight into the dumpster. The instructions tell you to leave the bolt loose enough so that you can spin the washer with your fingers.

The type of nut he provides most likely won't work itself loose but I just couldn't wrap my head around leaving a fastener loose on purpose.

My suggestion is OEM mounts
 
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A bolted joint connection relies on the clamp created between the members to carry the load. Once the bolt on the motor mount is stretched due to torque, the interface between the mount tabs and bushing inner metal is now carrying the load and the bolt only sees the tension created by torque (bolt preload). If the fastener loses tension it will be subjected to the loads seen by the joint. This will lead to eventual fatigue of the bolt or a general wallowing out of the mounting tabs. This is regardless of nut type.

The stover style nut may not back off once loose, but the joint will still be susceptible to the wear and eventual fatigue of the bolt.

Can you explain further how the application described below would not eventually result in bolt fatigue?

"they are used as stop nuts or spacers for rotating or other components"

I just looked up the torque value in the FSM and it's 35ft/lbs. Tim at Brown Dog just said "snug, don't over-tighten."
 
You have found the exact reason I think Brown dog mounts should go straight into the dumpster. The instructions tell you to leave the bolt loose enough so that you can spin the washer with your fingers.

The type of nut he provides most likely won't work itself loose but I just couldn't wrap my head around leaving a fastener loose on purpose.

My suggestion is OEM mounts

I'll torque it down to the FSM 35 ft lbs and see what the vibes are like. What prompted re-visiting the BD mounts was my son has an 05 TJR with the 42rle and he wanted to drive mine for comparison. He said the vibes were quite a bit more on mine than his.
 
Can you explain further how the application described below would not eventually result in bolt fatigue?

"they are used as stop nuts or spacers for rotating or other components"

I just looked up the torque value in the FSM and it's 35ft/lbs. Tim at Brown Dog just said "snug, don't over-tighten."

Is the Brown Dog motor mount bolt intended to clamp the engine bracket to the isolater sleeve?

The factory motor mount isolaters have bonded sleeves and are bonded to the base of the shell, all similar to the Cleavite control arm bushings with a similar function.
 
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I'll torque it down to the FSM 35 ft lbs and see what the vibes are like. What prompted re-visiting the BD mounts was my son has an 05 TJR with the 42rle and he wanted to drive mine for comparison. He said the vibes were quite a bit more on mine than his.

Just my experience but torqued at OEM mount spec the jeep rattled so bad I thought the dash was going to break apart.
 
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Is the Brown Dog motor mount bolt intended to clamp the engine bracket to the isolater sleeve?

The factory motor mount isolaters have bonded sleeves and are bonded to the base of the shell, all similar to the Cleavite control arm bushings with a similar function.

The Brown Dog uses the OEM motor mount bolt or you can purchase new bolts. I used the OEM bolts.

No, it's not intended to clamp the engine bracket to the isolator sleeve.
 
Just my experience but torqued at OEM mount spec the jeep rattled so bad I thought the dash was going to break apart.

Well, then I'm back to "just snug it up!"

If I can ever find some decent OEM mounts I'll buy them. I sold mine to someone on here for $25!
 
Can you explain further how the application described below would not eventually result in bolt fatigue?

"they are used as stop nuts or spacers for rotating or other components"

I just looked up the torque value in the FSM and it's 35ft/lbs. Tim at Brown Dog just said "snug, don't over-tighten."

The only thing I can think of that would considered a stop nut would be a joint that is using the bolt as a pinned connection. Where the joint isn't carrying a load and the nut keeps the bolt from vibrating out.

The top stud on a front shock is kind of an example. The rubber bushing doesn't create enough clamp to prevent the nut from backing off. The locking feature on the nut ensures that the rubber bushing retains the proper tension.
 
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The Brown Dog uses the OEM motor mount bolt or you can purchase new bolts. I used the OEM bolts.

No, it's not intended to clamp the engine bracket to the isolator sleeve.

Then the use of a lock nut is essential to keep it from backing off. Didn't realize it wasn't supposed to clamp on the inner metal of the isolator.
 
Just my experience but torqued at OEM mount spec the jeep rattled so bad I thought the dash was going to break apart.

Well, then I'm back to "just snug it up!"

If I can ever find some decent OEM mounts I'll buy them. I sold mine to someone on here for $25!
From this thread it would appear that the 42RLE takes the short input which is what I think your TeraLow case has. So maybe it was just a bad seal?

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/is-the-231-and-241-transfer-case-interchangeable.16325/

So it would appear my SWAG was incorrect.

That will make things easier. Hopefully get it all fixed today or tomorrow.

I tried to burp the cooling system further by driving the jeep up on a curb and a 4x4 to get any remaining air out of the heater core hose lines. Those lines got really hot, but the air inside the jeep was still tepid. RockAuto apparently can't be called. YOu can file for a refund, but you have to return the part. Like I'm going to go in there again for a measly $35. There's got to be a way to get my money back. I'm going to focus on fixing the OEM heater core that I have. Try to figure something out.
 
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@Wildman, also, I tried to burp the cooling system further by driving the jeep up on a curb and a 4x4 to get any remaining air out of the heater core hose lines. I spent 20 minutes fiddling with hoses to work out any air. Those lines got really hot, but the air inside the jeep was still tepid. RockAuto apparently can't be called. YOu can file for a refund, but you have to return the part. Like I'm going to go in there again for a measly $35. There's got to be a way to get my money back. I'm going to focus on fixing the OEM heater core that I have. Try to figure something out.
 
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@Wildman, also, I tried to burp the cooling system further by driving the jeep up on a curb and a 4x4 to get any remaining air out of the heater core hose lines. I spent 20 minutes fiddling with hoses to work out any air. Those lines got really hot, but the air inside the jeep was still tepid. RockAuto apparently can't be called. YOu can file for a refund, but you have to return the part. Like I'm going to go in there again for a measly $35. There's got to be a way to get my money back. I'm going to focus on fixing the OEM heater core that I have. Try to figure something out.

Are both your lines getting warm? If both hoses are warm/hot but you're still only getting mediocre then I wonder if your blend doors aren't working correctly.
I'd guess it could be the heater core but if both hoses are warm/hot then the heater core should be warm/hot too.
 
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