Barbara Sylvanas do it all build

I'll toss this into the mess. If one wants to go down this route, body roll can be dialed out with shocks. At that point, the sway bar tuning can focus more on keeping the body centered between the articulating axles.

That being said, I daily drive my Antirock on the middle setting. Body roll exists. I don't believe that loosest should be assumed to be the best setting for off road. I agree the factory front seems unnecessarily stiff. And I'll be interested to see what happens once I can build out the front shocks and get a decent tune on both ends.
 
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What are you comparing it to?

this:

I certainly don't want a sway bar stiffer than the factory one for DD.



I think we should stop focusing on this one very small part of the plan. We haven't talk to the OP at all about any of the rest of his build. Like spring rate, bushing composition, NVH, and the like...

So you're a "skip the frying pan and throw them straight into the fire" kind of guy, huh?

:LOL:
 
Ok...Sorry for the thread diversion @Classic>New.

I kinda read through your original post again. You say you want 35's. That's awesome, so do I. I'm gonna warn you up front...it ain't cheap. If you want a rig that you can actually depend on when you're out in the boonies, anyway. If you just wanna roll up to Tommy Hilfiger or Hollister in your Jeep on 35's to look cool, that's a lot easier to attain.

This thread —->LINK<—- is a decent place to start. Its not all inclusive and I haven't read it in a while, but there is a fair amount of good information there. There are nuances once you go down the path, but the thread will get your head right. I noticed you mentioned 3" of lift. You'll need a 1" body lift and probably highline fenders to get the uptravel that really makes for a good ride to fit 35's there. Doesn't sound like you're opposed to highlines, so 3" of lift should be fine. If you really want the cat's meow though...a 4" lift might be better. With a 4" lift, it is easier to fit 12" travel shocks and get that 6" up/6" down balanced travel that is desirable.

Buy quality components. I'm coining a phrase here, There is never enough money to buy right, but there is always enough money to buy twice. If you try to cheap out on a lift, you'll be going through and buying it again. That's not to say you have to spring for the most expensive doodad or gadget everytime you buy something, but when you're dealing with stuff like suspension arms, brakes, Steering, etc, get the highest quality you can afford.

Speaking of suspension, I won't tell you what type of joint to buy. I have Currie control arms with Johhny Joints and I like them. I haven't had any opportunity to compare them to anything else other than worn ass factory shit, so I'm biased. I will warn you against some of the joints that use a thread in shell to hold the bushing in compression (think Rubicon Express). As they wear, they will lose preload and the joint loosens up. A Johnny Joint won't do that, because the preload is set by a snap ring. That is the key difference between the Johnny Joint and EVERYTHING else out there that is similar. I suppose, eventually, the JJ will loosen up too, but from all the accounts I read online, the threaded ones loosen up much more quickly. Quite a few guys are running the Duroflex joint from Metalcloak and they like those too.

Axles...You have stock Dana 30/Dana 35 combo, right? There are a few options...all of them costly. First option...Super Dana 35 in the rear with a selectable Locker and Chromoly Axles in the Dana 30 with your choice of locker (either lunchbox or selectable). 4.88 is the highest ratio you can get for the Dana 30, IIRC. You talk to the guys that run in the rocks, and they say its all you need. I don't know...I'm in michigan and traction is kinda non-existant. The nice thing is that this option does not require any welding, truly a bolt in experience.

Next, you can try to find a TJ Dana 44 for the rear of your jeep and replace the Dana 35. Not a bad option. Still mostly bolt in. However, I think the Super35 combo comes out cheaper in the long run and its stronger than the factory Dana 44 axles to boot (both 30 spline). Basically, the regear and locker are a wash, so you're trying to compare the cost of new axle shafts and a carrier to the Dana 44 Housing. You can get the High Strength Axles for the Dana 44 too...for what that's worth.

Finally, find some TJ Rubicon Axles. This is a pretty awesome way to go, when you first think about it. But, if you think more critically, I'd reconsider. You still need to regear The front Dana 44 is more of a Dana 30/44 combo (the tubes, knuckles, Inner C's and stub shafts are the same between the two). You already have a Dana 30. The TJ Rubicon Lockers are decent, but not great. If they break, they are almost impossible to get parts for and they are very low pressure air lockers with their own independent air pumps. The pumps run about 5 PSI...so its not like you can just run an ARB compressor for them. So, that is another cost and sourcing problem. Finally, the axles are incredibly expensive IF you can find them. tThere are two really good reasons to go this way in my mind. One is that the larger ring and pinion allows for deeper gearing...which you don't desire. The second is that they will bolt in with no real Fab work.

You can also try to find a High Pinion Dana 30 for the front. Kinda neat, but not really necessary.

Next we get into major Fab...so I won't detail it much. You can use a Ford 8.8. Meh...I think this was a really good option on YJ's with the leaf springs, but there is so much fab work involved to put them under a coil sprung TJ, the benefits don't justify.

JK axles. Supposedly, these are stronger than their equivalent TJ versions. I don't know all the details, but I do know you have to cut all the control arm brackets off, weld on new and figure out steering (TJ to JK is different styles of steering). You also need new wheels (different bolt pattern and brake clearance) and the Axles are about 5 inches wider than TJ, but some of that is used up in the shallower offset of the JK wheels. Lots of work, but some decent benefit. Personally, if I were contemplating an axle swap, a pair of JK Rubicon axles with electric lockers kinda tickles my fancy...but its a TON of work...and they only come with 4.10 gears, so unless you find a set already set up to what you want...you still have to pay 1200 bucks for a regear.

Interior stuff? Do that whenever you want. I've upgraded my stereo and installed seat heaters. Creature Comforts are really nice in a daily. I think some more sound insulation and a hard top would also be necessary for DD duties.
 
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I'll toss this into the mess. If one wants to go down this route, body roll can be dialed out with shocks. At that point, the sway bar tuning can focus more on keeping the body centered between the articulating axles.

That being said, I daily drive my Antirock on the middle setting. Body roll exists. I don't believe that loosest should be assumed to be the best setting for off road. I agree the factory front seems unnecessarily stiff. And I'll be interested to see what happens once I can build out the front shocks and get a decent tune on both ends.

I have read completely through your build thread with your Jeep and it is what has inspired some of how I am approaching my build. I really look forward to seeing how that turns out. But for now I think I am leaning towards the ORO. I feel like so much of this is hard to be definitive on because everyone has a different way of making things work. There really is no clear this is better than the other even from the ease of use side of things. Sure being air actuated or lever controlled vs you have to change the setting yourself; one could argue that with less parts things are less likely to break. It's all very much down to preference
 
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I have read completely through your build thread with your Jeep and it is what has inspired some of how I am approaching my build. I really look forward to seeing how that turns out. But for now I think I am leaning towards the ORO. I feel like so much of this is hard to be definitive on because everyone has a different way of making things work. There really is no clear this is better than the other even from the ease of use side of things. Sure being air actuated or lever controlled vs you have to change the setting yourself; one could argue that with less parts things are less likely to break. It's all very much down to preference

I am glad you are doing your homework. There is a lot of priceless experience available here on the Forum that you can learn from. I've read his build too, very informative.
 
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Ok...Sorry for the thread diversion @Classic>New.

I kinda read through your original post again. You say you want 35's. That's awesome, so do I. I'm gonna warn you up front...it ain't cheap. If you want a rig that you can actually depend on when you're out in the boonies, anyway. If you just wanna roll up to Tommy Hilfiger or Hollister in your Jeep on 35's to look cool, that's a lot easier to attain...….

Wow what a post! The diversion is alright, I got a chuckle out of it. The nerd in me really got and understood all of it.

I do want 35's and I am willing to make that financial dive. I am very lucky to have a job that let's me make that statement lol. I would feel ashamed, personally, if all I had Barbara do is crawl me to the mall. No, I am definitely taking her out on the trails, camping, and rock crawling.

I will take a look at that link (Edit haha I have read this one and it was a great read. I plan to reread it though to increase my understanding). I like things that get me to a good place to start. In terms of lifts I was fully planning on doing a 1" body lift and no more than a 1.25". But when it comes to suspension lifts I am much more on the fence between a 4" and 3" lift. I find myself day by day changing my opinion on what I want but I have a feeling (you know how you should trust your gut?) that I am going to go for the 4" lift but still have Highlines if I can find them.

To coin phrase off you coin phrase, "I am looking to do this right not twice." I know that no amount of money will make things perfect and unbreakable but I really only want to buy quality products with the tried and true history. If there are places where I can take the cheaper route because it doesn't matter as much I will take it.

I am looking at the Currie lift vs the OME lift and I like Currie more right now. From what little I have read I want to get the Johnny Joints. There seems like a real consensus that they are preferred by many who use them. I want to use Rancho RS5000x as my shocks.

Axles really are a pain in the ass right now. There are so many ways to go and I am stuck between several decisions. I feel like building the super Dana 35's would be enough. I have seen substantial evidence that they are up to the task if they are built right and it seems like most people who argue the SuperD35's are garbage are ones who have never tried and have the sheep mentality of "*Baaaah* the only thing super about Dana 35 is that they are Super breakable*baaaaah*". Something they read somewhere by someone who thought they knew this. I feel like if I build SuperD35 is good enough but for my peace of mind a built Dana 44 would be good the option to go with. But I also feel like it is overkill. This is where I am stuck the most in what I am going to do. I would find it fun to go with the High Pinion Dana 30 but it really isn't on my need to do list. I am not really looking at any other options. I'm not much into major fab work...……. yet....... I also know that I want to re-gear to 4.88.

As for interior stuff I really just want to make sure I have safety and communication up to par. I already have a GMDSS radio operators license so getting HAM would be easy even if mostly unnecessary. I just like to have backups. A lot of the interior will be add as I go for my needs at the time and I'll just throw up whatever I do here and how it works for me. Luckily for me Barbara came with a nice (and fairly new non-faded) hard top so I get to go the other route and buy a soft top as well so I can swap off when it suits me.
 
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I am glad you are doing your homework. There is a lot of priceless experience available here on the Forum that you can learn from. I've read his build too, very informative.

I make my best effort to check all the in's and out's. Unfortunately though I usually take other more experienced peoples words as fact though so I need to be careful and still do my research no matter who suggests what. I loved @jjvw 's build thread. It taught me a lot and pointed me in a lot of other directions to where I could learn more. So when I said it was part of my inspiration I mean that it was part of the reason I want to make my own build thread so I could help others the way he helped me.
 
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Maybe plan on a S35 but keep your eyes out for a Dana 44. I know @Squatch has one reasonably priced for sale right now.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/Dana 44-for-sale.22055/I ended up finding one and doing the swap. It does give me peace of mind.
 
Maybe plan on a S35 but keep your eyes out for a Dana 44. I know @Squatch has one reasonably priced for sale right now.
https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/Dana 44-for-sale.22055/I ended up finding one and doing the swap. It does give me peace of mind.

I would love to have the Dana 44 for the peace of mind I just know they can be hard to find, so I will really have to look at that.
 
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I would love to have the Dana 44 for the peace of mind I just know they can be hard to find, so I will really have to look at that.
I paid $800 for mine with disc brakes. I pulled the shafts and removed the diff cover before buying it. Everything looked good till I got home and removed the carrier and discovered that the pinion had a few broken teeth. At any rate, I was planning to re-gear anyway, but would have insisted I pay only $600 if I had known. In the end the rear axle, regear and eaton e-locker ended up costing me $2,475. I sold the Dana 35 for $200, so I recovered a little. All well worth it.
 
I paid $800 for mine with disc brakes. I pulled the shafts and removed the diff cover before buying it. Everything looked good till I got home and removed the carrier and discovered that the pinion had a few broken teeth. At any rate, I was planning to re-gear anyway, but would have insisted I pay only $600 if I had known. In the end the rear axle, regear and eaton e-locker ended up costing me $2,475. I sold the Dana 35 for $200, so I recovered a little. All well worth it.

This might be the young naïve side of me but I believe that coming from Squatch (I have read a lot of his posts before this and has a good reputation here in the forum) that he would include that in his selling post if there were any issues. Of course there could just be things that you can't know until you pull it apart. But for the price of $850 it keep the cost down compared to what other people try to charge or a new one for that matter. I think that roughly $2275 (including sell) overall cost isn't too bad in the end. What I really like is that it has the same gear ratio that my Jeep is running now so it would be as close to a plug and play as I could get.
 
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What I really like is that it has the same gear ratio that my Jeep is running now so it would be as close to a plug and play as I could get.

Squatch is totally reliable. That guy has had hundreds, if not thousands, of cars in his lifetime. He knows what he's looking for and what he's doing. He just won't build his own TJ! He has all the parts inside the TJ. LOL.

Yeah, at that price and with the same gear ratio you want, you really can't go wrong. If you wanted to lock it later, your pinion depth would be fine, all you would have to do is remove the carrier, unbolt the ring gear, bolt it back up on the locker, fine tune the carrier shimming by using a backlash dial indicator to get it just right. That alone would save you a ton of money. Since you live in CA, I don't think you have much snow, get a Detroit locker for the rear. They are bulletproof and only run around $650. Some complain about their driving habits, but most just adjust and don't even think about it.
 
I have read completely through your build thread with your Jeep and it is what has inspired some of how I am approaching my build. I really look forward to seeing how that turns out. But for now I think I am leaning towards the ORO. I feel like so much of this is hard to be definitive on because everyone has a different way of making things work. There really is no clear this is better than the other even from the ease of use side of things. Sure being air actuated or lever controlled vs you have to change the setting yourself; one could argue that with less parts things are less likely to break. It's all very much down to preference

A broad comment I can make on subjectivity is that the more guidelines and parameters you can understand and identify, as well as seeing the amount of interconnectivity, the less subjectivity there is.

In the case of Jeeps, I often like to use the factory suspension travels as point of comparison. Have you increased, maintained or decreased the amount that came from the factory? What does that mean for all your efforts? When building the suspension travels, what are the boundaries to the upper and lower limits of travel? What does it take to get to those limits? Regarding tunable sway bars, if the purpose of the sway bar is to control movement, then shouldn't the baseline for a sway bar be to control unwanted movement without restricting desired movement? When a dual rate sway bar is available, how does context change the desired movement?

The more you can understand, the more parameters you can identify. The more parameters you can identify, the more the build will begin to define itself.
 
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Squatch is totally reliable. That guy has had hundreds, if not thousands, of cars in his lifetime. He knows what he's looking for and what he's doing. He just won't build his own TJ! He has all the parts inside the TJ. LOL.

Yeah, at that price and with the same gear ratio you want, you really can't go wrong. If you wanted to lock it later, your pinion depth would be fine, all you would have to do is remove the carrier, unbolt the ring gear, bolt it back up on the locker, fine tune the carrier shimming by using a backlash dial indicator to get it just right. That alone would save you a ton of money. Since you live in CA, I don't think you have much snow, get a Detroit locker for the rear. They are bulletproof and only run around $650. Some complain about their driving habits, but most just adjust and don't even think about it.

I hit him up and will see if something can be arranged. If I can skip the spending money on a Super35 and go right into a Dana 44, in the long run it will be cheaper than running the Super35 and switch after. I will throw a lock on it eventually but I do plan on moving out of CA to a potentially more snow prone area (Nevada... no income tax compared to CA 13.3%). I will have to do more research on lockers as I have spent very little time on them since they seemed pretty far install from now. However if this Dana 44 becomes mine that might change when I get the locker.
 
A broad comment I can make on subjectivity is that the more guidelines and parameters you can understand and identify, as well as seeing the amount of interconnectivity, the less subjectivity there is. In the case of Jeeps, I often like to use the factory suspension travels as point of comparison. Have you increased, maintained or decreased the amount that came from the factory? What does that mean for all your efforts? When building the suspension travels, what are the boundaries to the upper and lower limits of travel? What does it take to get to those limits? Regarding tunable sway bars, if the purpose of the sway bar is to control movement, then shouldn't the baseline for a sway bar be to control unwanted movement without restricting desired movement? When a dual rate sway bar is available, how does context change the desired movement?

The more you can understand, the more parameters you can identify. The more parameters you can identify. The more the build will begin define itself.

And these are all questions I hope to learn. It'll take time and a lot of effort but that's one reason why I bought a Jeep that wasn't modded. The previous owner spray painted the wheels and I would hardly call that a mod lol. This is going to take a lot of research and effort but I'm okay with it and I am not in a rush to start making modifications before I gain more understanding. For now I am trying to stick to bare necessities and easy mods that while help grow my knowledge like installing new speakers, new headlights, and my first real mechanic work will be to replace the engine cooling system as I think she needs it. 150k miles and hasn't had any of that work done. My first concern is safety and improving reliability. While I do those updates I can keep researching all the fun stuff I get to do when I feel Barbara is back in shape. Like I have said before and will say again... I want to do this right, not twice.
 
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