Nashville TJ's Build - Continued

[BlueC]

New running gear and springs

I'd expect a set of loaded axles, springs and hardware to be around $3,000, but I haven't seen prices recently. Wheels and tires vary too much to guess.

for ride quality

I keep thinking I want a trailer with an airbag setup, but that's more so I can get low riding cars on it since I'm looking for one trailer to haul it all. Not that you need that, but airbags sure would make for a nicer ride quality.

 

[AirborneTexasRanger]

My vote is for new axles, only because I enjoy following along on your projects

 

[NashvilleTJ]

My solution to my fat-ass-rig problem is to replace my heavy Lowrance GPS with a much lighter, tablet based GPS. So you can now stop all the fat-shaming...



Here is what I will be putting in. It is a rugged Android based tablet from Minno.

I will hard mount it to the dash bar in the same fashion as my Lowrance. I'll use the mounting plate for this, but not the ball mount.

The unit is very close to the same height and width of the Lowrance, but has an 8" screen compared to the Lowrance's 7" screen. And, it weighs several pounds less!

I'll be using OnX to start. But will give likely give GIAA a try as well.

If you are interested in the selection process I went through to arrive at this tablet, here is the thread:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...or-options-for-a-rugged-android-tablet.80774/

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Okay, I thought about this more. The weight on your tongue should be the weight of your truck without the trailer attached minus the weight of your truck with the trailer attached (just like if you stood on the hitch instead of in the driver's seat - the truck weight would be the same no matter where you are in/on the truck).

Empty, your truck weighed 4,860 lb (front axle) + 3,780 lb (rear axle) = 8,640 lb. With the trailer on it, it weighed 4,560 lb (front axle) + 6,620 lb (rear axle) = 11,180 lb. That makes your tongue weight an astounding 2,540 lb. As a double check, when you add that tongue weight to the trailer axle weight (1,540 lb), you end up with the trailer weight you calculated earlier - 4,080 lb.

Either my brain is fritzing (always a possibility), or your tongue weight is crazy! My head hurts...

Just for fun, I wanted to validate the 900 pound tongue weight reading the Weigh-Safe hitch was giving me. So...

...and wadda ya know:

 

[Wildman]

My solution to my fat-ass-rig problem is to replace my heavy Lowrance GPS with a much lighter, tablet based GPS. So you can now stop all the fat-shaming...



Here is what I will be putting in. It is a rugged Android based tablet from Minno.

View attachment 557208

I will hard mount it to the dash bar in the same fashion as my Lowrance. I'll use the mounting plate for this, but not the ball mount.

View attachment 557202

The unit is very close to the same height and width of the Lowrance, but has an 8" screen compared to the Lowrance's 7" screen. And, it weighs several pounds less!

View attachment 557203

I'll be using OnX to start. But will give likely GIAA a try as well.

If you are interested in the selection process I went through to arrive at this tablet, here is the thread:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads...or-options-for-a-rugged-android-tablet.80774/

Damn you make things HARD... This keeping up with the Jones thing... But OK yes I was starting to shop for a new GPS so I can't blame it all on you... But I'm happy to let you test it all out first prior to me spending my hard earned money...

I'll be watching to see how you like it.

 

[sab]

I think it is likely that the overall measured weight of the truck is spot on, the overall measured weight of the truck and trailer is spot on, and the calculated weight of the trailer is spot on. However, given I was on a scale meant for a semi, I think the breakdown between steer axle, drive axle, and trailer axle may be suspect. Just take a look at the stoppie weight on the Jeep.

I would agree. If you didn't already do so last time, next time talk to the scale operator ahead of time to learn where the load cell zones are so that you can get proper axle weights in as many positions on the scale that it takes. Then you can math out the tongue weight. But, as usual, you got 'er done!

 

[gasiorv]

Would you not subtract the unsprung weight of the trailer axles wheels and tires to determine what is the max weight that the trailer can carry? Thus you would actually be under 10K if you subtract the weight of the trailer axles, wheels and tires.
If the axles can carry 5200 lbs each, that does not include the weight of the axles themselves.
If you have a 10K lb trailer (as stamped as GVWR on trailer) does that include unsprung weight?

I am actually asking, I don't know, it just makes sense to me that you would not include unsprung weight, but I can easily be missing something.

Also, I am just referring to the GVWR of the trailer, and not the GCWR of the combined truck and trailer which would also rely on moving and stopping capability and thus the trailer weight in it's entirety (including unsprung weight) would need to be included.

 

[sab]

Would you not subtract the unsprung weight of the trailer axles wheels and tires to determine what is the max weight that the trailer can carry? Thus you would actually be under 10K if you subtract the weight of the trailer axles, wheels and tires.
If the axles can carry 5200 lbs each, that does not include the weight of the axles themselves.
If you have a 10K lb trailer (as stamped as GVWR on trailer) does that include unsprung weight?

I am actually asking, I don't know, it just makes sense to me that you would not include unsprung weight, but I can easily be missing something.

Also, I am just referring to the GVWR of the trailer, and not the GCWR of the combined truck and trailer which would also rely on moving and stopping capability and thus the trailer weight in it's entirety (including unsprung weight) would need to be included.

GVWR and GCWR are legally defined terms. Here's my state's definition of GVWR:

The value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum design loaded weight of a vehicle. This is the weight as expressed on the vehicle's registration and includes the weight the vehicle can carry or draw.

And here's the federal definition (see them all here: Code of Federal Regulations Title 49, Section 571.3):

The value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

No mention of sprung or unsprung mass.

 

[Rickyd]

It's a beautiful day here in Nashville, so I took a short ride and did something I've been meaning to do for a while: Weigh the Jeep.

So, I headed down to my nearby T/A Truck Stop, which has a certified scale:

The Jeep :

View attachment 556984

Full tank, and me in it. So just about 6400 pounds. Ouch. Glad I got rid of that hi-lift. I'd always guessed that the rig was up there close to 6,000, but I was just a bit off - and surprised it was over.

And that triggered another thought - how much does the trailer weight, and have I exceeded its 10K capacity? I always knew I was close. So, after getting home, I hitched up the trailer to the tow pig and headed back down to the T/A.

Here is the truck and the trailer:

View attachment 556985

And here is the truck:

View attachment 556986

That makes the trailer 4,080 pounds.

And that makes the gross weight of the trailer and the Jeep: 10,450 pounds. No wonder I'm blowing tires...

And another fun fact. You may recall that I picked up this hitch which has a tongue weight scale:

View attachment 556987

And yes, you are reading that correctly: 900 pounds. At first, I thought that the scale must have been off. 900 pounds on the tongue - of an empty trailer? But then it dawned on me that the trailer is not empty at all - I bet I have the better part of 1,000 pounds of axle shafts, drive shafts, spare parts, equipment, fluids, etc., sitting in the box at the front of the trailer.

So yeah, I'm pushing it on the trailer.

But a piece of good news: Thanks to Ryan ( @Apparition ) I was able to top off the tow pig for $2.83/gal using my new Open Roads Card.

Here is the $3.89/gal cost of the fill-up prior to the discount. Thanks again Ryan!

View attachment 556989

That helps offset all the extra fuel it takes to haul around all these pounds...

It isn't surprising when you think about it. 1 ton axles and huge tires. V8 drivetrain and lots of extra steel plate and tube.

It's more of a bobbed fullsize truck that looks like a jeep

 

[Apparition]

It isn't surprising when you think about it. 1 ton axles and huge tires. V8 drivetrain and lots of extra steel plate and tube.

It's more of a bobbed fullsize truck that looks like a jeep

V8's aren't always heavier

 

[BlueC]

V8's aren't always heavier

I-6 are fairly big, and when made out of iron are heavy. Anybody know what a dressed 4.0 weighs?

Edit; a quick search says right at 500 lbs. IDK if that's just an assembled long block or fully dressed. A similar search says Gen 3 HEMIs weighs 485-550, with most saying low 500s. Looks like a Gen III Hemi might be only a few lbs heavier, and if @NashvilleTJ will take up my suggestion of switching to an aluminum block, it'll be lighter.

 

[Apparition]

I-6 are fairly big, and when made out of iron are heavy. Anybody know what a dressed 4.0 weighs?

The number I see thrown out on the forums is 515 lbs. I'm unsure what accessories that is.

My LS3 claims 415 without accessories.

 

[Rickyd]

The number I see thrown out on the forums is 515 lbs. I'm unsure what accessories that is.

My LS3 claims 415 without accessories.

Aluminum block LS are nice light motors. Maybe it's time for Jeff to swap?

 

[BlueC]

The number I see thrown out on the forums is 515 lbs. I'm unsure what accessories that is.

That's pretty much what I found and added to my post. Looks like the Gen III HEMI is only marginally heavier than a 4.0.

 

[Rickyd]

JEEP AND GM ENGINE WEIGHTS:

Their nominal estimated, accessory loaded weights are:

•2.8L V6, 365 lbs.
•2.5L I4, 340 lbs.
•4.0L I6, 515 lbs.

•Chevy 4.3L V6, 425 lbs.
•Chevy Small Block V8 (Gen. I & II), 550 lbs.
•Chevy Small Block V8 (Gen. III+), 470 lbs.
•Chevy Small Block V8 (LS1), 407 lbs.
•Buick 90 degree V6, 375 lbs.
•Buick 60 degree V6, 350 lbs.

INFO courtesy of Novak-Adapt,

6.4L

Total Weight, Full Dress 582 lbs.

Engine weight 500 lbs (227 kg) - dry weight

5.7L

Engine Weight 5.7L IRON BLOCK, 2009: 560 LBS.

Total Weight, Full Dress 591 lbs.

6.1L

Total Weight, Full Dress 578 lbs.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

The number I see thrown out on the forums is 515 lbs. I'm unsure what accessories that is.

My LS3 claims 415 without accessories.

But, the extra weight of the Hemi comes from all the extra cool…



When I swapped in the Hemi, although I don’t recall the numbers I do recall it being fairly close in weight to the 4.0. Not too much to worry about one way or the other. An aluminum block would certainly be a bit lighter, as Blue pointed out.

One thing I don’t know is the weight of the 545RFE vs. the 42RLE. My guess is that given the much larger size, it’s likely a good bit heavier as well.

 

[Rickyd]

But, the extra weight of the Hemi comes from all the extra cool…



When I swapped in the Hemi, although I don’t recall the numbers I do recall it being fairly close in weight to the 4.0. Not too much to worry about one way or the other. An aluminum block would certainly be a bit lighter, as Blue pointed out.

One thing I don’t know is the weight of the 545RFE vs. the 42RLE. My guess is that given the much larger size, it’s likely a good bit heavier as well.

Just because she's put on weight here and there over the years doesn't mean she can't get the job done.

Don't tell her she's fat and she won't kick anyone's ass!

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Would you not subtract the unsprung weight of the trailer axles wheels and tires to determine what is the max weight that the trailer can carry? Thus you would actually be under 10K if you subtract the weight of the trailer axles, wheels and tires.
If the axles can carry 5200 lbs each, that does not include the weight of the axles themselves.
If you have a 10K lb trailer (as stamped as GVWR on trailer) does that include unsprung weight?

I am actually asking, I don't know, it just makes sense to me that you would not include unsprung weight, but I can easily be missing something.

Also, I am just referring to the GVWR of the trailer, and not the GCWR of the combined truck and trailer which would also rely on moving and stopping capability and thus the trailer weight in it's entirety (including unsprung weight) would need to be included.

I’ve thought about this as well, Vic. Properly loaded, the tow pig does carry 10% or so of the load. So I guess theoretically 10,000 pound axles could handle a total loaded weight of 11,000 pounds.

But, if you load it incorrectly, you could easily put those same 11,000 pounds all on the axles. Also theoretically, if you really loaded it wrong, meaning the weight way, way far back, you could exceed 11,000 as the upward leverage at the tongue would cause the axles to carry some of the weight of the tow pig.

So maybe the capacity rating is to protect stupid people?

 

[Apparition]

But, the extra weight of the Hemi comes from all the extra cool…



When I swapped in the Hemi, although I don’t recall the numbers I do recall it being fairly close in weight to the 4.0. Not too much to worry about one way or the other. An aluminum block would certainly be a bit lighter, as Blue pointed out.

One thing I don’t know is the weight of the 545RFE vs. the 42RLE. My guess is that given the much larger size, it’s likely a good bit heavier as well.

I’m seeing 230 for the 545 and the 42RLE is 125-150 according to the web.

I assume your 4 speed atlas is heavier than the previous tcase.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Aluminum block LS are nice light motors. Maybe it's time for Jeff to swap?

[IGNORE]