Outboard rear shocks project

softballnrd27

TJ Enthusiast
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Harker Heights, TX, United States
I am trying to do all of my research prior to me buying parts to get some long travel shocks installed on my 05 LJ front and rear. For the time being, I am running Rancho RS9000 adjustable for the stock mounting locations. I am in the process of installing a 79 F250 HP44 and 9" rear combo at their 67" and 65" wms widths. I run a 3.5" Metalcloak Lift and will be upgrading it to a Mid-Arm in the near future.

I know @mrblaine is the man when it comes to all things good for our Jeep suspension design and what not so I am really looking forward to his input.
I understand that it is best for the rear shocks to be at a 90* angle to the control arms for but what about being tilted out from top to bottom or do I need to have them straight up and down from top to bottom? I'm sure I will have some more questions. If you have a more in-depth look into the reasons behind it please share so I can read up on it more.
 
@mrblaine doesn't come on this forum anymore. After he saw that MetalCloak was sponsoring the ride of the month contest, he said he would never come to this site again since I "sold out" apparently. :rolleyes:

Perhaps @jjvw will chime in, as he has outboard shocks on his. I'm in the process of doing mine, but a builder is doing it for me, so I can't comment on the proper angle or anything.

This would be an interesting discussion to have though.
 
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Sub'd. I am going to outboard mine this spring along with moving shock mounts in the front.
 
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I'm interested in this as well. My intuition has always been that the shocks should be in line with the Jeep. In my mind, the further they are leaned inwards or outwards, the less they will do (in the same way they do less if they aren't 90 degree to the control arms).

No idea if that is the right way to think about it. Interested to see what other people have to say about this.
 
Sub'd. I am going to outboard mine this spring along with moving shock mounts in the front.

The guy who is doing my outboard shocks says he is going to move my shock mounts in the front as well and install "hoops" so that I can run a longer travel shock.
 
I'm under the same impression that keeping it 90* to the control arm and 90* to the axle is the best but if I tilted the lower shock out towards the wheel then I could also help with body roll but i don't want sacrifice something else to do that.
 
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I'm under the same impression that keeping it 90* to the control arm and 90* to the axle is the best but if I tilted the lower shock out towards the wheel then I could also help with body roll but i don't want sacrifice something else to do that.

Ive done what was dubbed as the shock shifter mod (on Jeep Forum)

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I felt the rear was more planted when I did this. Though, at this current position and with this current shock, I am limited on down travel before I begin to experience driveline bind. I also have room left for uptravel but my shock will bottom out before then.
 
This is very interesting and I think you may get mixed ideas. Genright says to in a coilover application to mount the base (axle position) close to the wheel as possible meaning it would be angled out ward. I am unsure if this is the same as the shocks or not. Chris I would try to steer away from hoops as you can achieve to same result with trimmed shock towers. If you look at the Jeep West builds, some of Savvy's builds as well as Blaine's, they all use longer shock towers in the front achieving a much cleaner and factory appearance.
 
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This is what I came up with. Basically my best attempt to copy what Blaine does.

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I used Poly towers and 12" Fox 2.0 shocks. Make sure the bump stops are exactly where they need to be. This is your chance to make them as short as you can, because the point here is to match the shock travel to the available spring travel by moving the compressed shock further up.
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Your spring travel is from full bump to the point where the springs just barely come unseated. Currie 4" is a great platform for this, with over 13" between the bind and free lengths.

With the axle at full bump, figure out where the upper and lower shock mounts need to go using the compressed length of the shock.

The upper tower needs to be frenched far into the frame, so that the inner side wall of the tire does not rub when at full flex.
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My towers contact with the inner wall of the frame at the bottom and are about 1/4" away at the top.

The upper tower is positioned so that the shock is pointed 90° to the lower control arm at the mid point of the suspension travel. This is not necessarily ride height. The goal here is just to give the shock body enough room to swing inside the mount during it's travel.

Full bump is limited by the bump stops. However, I positioned the shocks so that as the axle flexes, the axle rolls off of the bump stop and into the compressed shock. This is a Blaine trick he told me during my research in order to maximize suspension up travel. Rolling onto the compressed shock will occur at a slow speed, so the risk of damage is highly unlikely.

There really is no clear set of instructions. You just need to understand where the pieces need to fit together. Cycle the axles a lot and at every step. Tack the mounts. Install the shocks and tires. Cycle the axles to see what interferes. Fix the problem and do it again until it is right. This isn't easy. But if you can understand and keep track of all the various movements, it will all come together.

The one thing I don't know is how to deal with the rear track bar, because I don't have one. I know Blaine will make a new frame side mount that is incorporated into the new upper shock mount.

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Some specifics to my setup... I used 1.5" wheel spacers to give my Moabs an effective 3.5" backspacing.

Black Magic Brakes sells a rear brake caliper flip kit. This helps make room for the shock body.

Compared to what I had before, I gained about 3" of down travel. This is because my previous shocks were too short and the bump stop requirement was to keep the lower control arm out of the frame. Those with better sized shocks than I had will likely gain both up travel and down travel.
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After the install, I had 6" up, 6" down. In order to adjust the rake, I added a 1" aluminum spacer which changed the travel to 7" up, 5" down.

Outboarding is a very good time to move the upper spring seats. The reason to do this is not to straighten the spring. The true purpose is to relocate the bump stops so that they line up again after both the extension and the pinion rotation.
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On mine, I trimmed the mount so that it fit as high into the frame arch as possible.
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I flattened the lower seats as well. Both to lose some lift from the rotated pinion and to get the bumps to line up better. This isn't very common. Blaine has said he doesn't do this.
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This allowed for a longer spring without adding as much lift. I did this knowing that I might need to add a spacer, but this allowed for some adjustability and still let me use the really long Currie LJ coils.

Another nice advantage to this process is that by moving the lower mounts behind the control arm, the window under the axle is significantlyy opened up.
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Additionally, there is an increase in stability with the wider spaced shocks because the shocks now have greater leverage against the frame.
 
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This is what I came up with. Basically my best attempt to copy what Blaine does.

I used Poly towers and 12" Fox 2.0 shocks. Make sure the bump stops are exactly where they need to be. This is your chance to make them as short as you can, because the point here is to match the shock travel to the available spring travel. Full bump to the point where the springs junk barely come unseated. Currie 4" is a great platform for this, with over 13" between the bind and free lengths.

With the axle at full bump, figure out where the upper and lower shock mounts need to go. The upper tower needs to be frenched far into the frame, do that the inner side wall of the tire does not rub when at full flex. My towers in contact with the inner wall is the frame at the bottom and about 1/4" at the top.

The upper tower is positioned so that the shock is pointed 90° to the lower control arm at the mid point of the suspension travel. This is not necessarily ride height. The goal here is just to give the shock body enough room to swing inside the mount during it's travel.

Full bump is limited by the bump stops. However, I positioned the shocks so that as the axle flexes, the axle rolls off of the bump stop and into the compressed shock. This is a Blaine trick he told me during my research on order to maximize suspension up travel. Rolling onto the compressed shock will occur at a slow speed, so the risk of damage is unlikely.

There really is no clear set of instructions. You just need to understand where the pieces need to fit together. Cycle the axles a lot and at every step.

The one thing I don't know is how to deal with the rear track bar. Because I don't have one. I know Blaine will make a new frame side mount that is incorporated into the new upper shock mount.View attachment 63449View attachment 63450View attachment 63451View attachment 63452View attachment 63453View attachment 63454View attachment 63455View attachment 63456

Any opinion on the poly mounts versus the GenRight mounts?
 
Any opinion on the poly mounts versus the GenRight mounts?
Personally, none. I picked Poly because that is what Blaine uses and he has specifically stated that there are little details in the angles and dimensions he prefers over others. I'm not in a position to test and experiment, so I went with what is known to work.
 
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I also outboarded back in 2011 when I did my axle swap. I did it about the same way jjvw shows. I read and read many threads and looked at pictures on other forums. I used the Poly mounts also. The axle I swapped in already had the Poly boxed in lower mounts on it. The PO of the axle recommended getting the Poly mounts. I ended up having to remove the stock track bar mount. I made my own and welded it to the shock mount and frame. I also moved my stock upper spring mounts so the bump stops would line up.
Pretty nerve wracking cutting into the frame and all. Measure lots.
I am pretty happy with the results. The rear springs settled just a bit, I could of mounted them slightly higher than I did. Noticeably more stable on road and off with an Antirock on the loosest setting.

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I rewrote, organized, and added a bunch of stuff.


Lots of info there. Good stuff.

Pretty nerve wracking cutting into the frame and all.

Ive seen that mentioned a lot!

I plan to to this next spring. It'll be interesting and I believe I will need limiting straps. It will be all uptravel for the rear of mine. Fronts are really what Im after currently, I have a lot left to gain up front in terms of uptravel.
 
I don't have limit straps on mine. I'll add one eventually, but it will be centered over the diff so as to limit the droop of the drive shaft without limiting the flex. This will allow me to improve the pinion angle a bit.

Pay close attention to the rear pinion angles both at full bump and full droop. This is why the SSSYE is important and why the big Rubicon transfer case is a double edged sword.
 
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@mrblaine doesn't come on this forum anymore. After he saw that MetalCloak was sponsoring the ride of the month contest, he said he would never come to this site again since I "sold out" apparently. :rolleyes:

Perhaps @jjvw will chime in, as he has outboard shocks on his. I'm in the process of doing mine, but a builder is doing it for me, so I can't comment on the proper angle or anything.

This would be an interesting discussion to have though.
I was informed that you unsold out, true or not?
 
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Personally, none. I picked Poly because that is what Blaine uses and he has specifically stated that there are little details in the angles and dimensions he prefers over others. I'm not in a position to test and experiment, so I went with what is known to work.

Yes, it is important to understand the design nuances. Due to the narrow width of the stock TJ axles which are also the most common in place under the rig, it is difficult to get a shock in place that is higher in the frame without the tires rubbing on the shock body at full articulation.

That means you have to pay close attention to the distance the holes for the upper shock bolt are off the back wall of the mount. We were handed a set of the Barnes mounts and the distance off the back wall was easily an inch more than the Poly mounts. If you look at most cut outs in the frame, the upper one is only about 1/4-3/8" away from the inner face of the frame. That barely leans the top of the shock in and in some cases puts them straight up and down.

If you move the top of the shock out further, then it could easily be leaning outward at the top and while I don't suppose that would hurt the function much, it certainly looks goofy. Bear in mind that the lower comes into play. The axle has to be cycled incessantly with the tire on to ensure that the lower is as far out as you can get it and the upper as far in with the tire sidewall just barely far enough away to avoid contact or hard contact.
 
@mrblaine I am installing a Ford 9" rear at 65" WMS and a HP Dana 44 at 66-67" WMS, how does that affect my lower mounting position? Do I angle it out more at the bottom or go pretty much straight up and down? Should I wait to do this project when I am doing the mid-arm upgrade?