Project "Red Headed Stepchild" A restoration & build

So I already have an NV3550 transmission and transfer case I plan to use and I got a bell housing off a Dakota, so I think on the trans-side of things I'm all taken care of for now.

I'm not opposed to having my ECU flashed (and that will most likely be my only option since I'm running a manual trans). Are there any downsides to having to get my ECU flashed? I know it might cause a little extra down time while I'm waiting to get it back, but I need to start over on my wiring since I have to find a new harness anyways.

I picked up a flywheel from Summit Racing that I plan on using (part no. PFT-50-2754). It says it works for the 5.9 Magnum even with it being externally balanced?

Can you post some pictures of your cruise setup on the dash? I have a '97 as well, and don't know what the exact manufacture date is on it, but chances are, it's early on like yours so I'll have to do a retrofitting of cruise too.

And final thought, I plan on swapping the rear end on mine. I currently have a Dana 35 in the back. Tired of looking for a Dana 44, especially since you were so against running a Dana 44 behind a V8 (understandably so with your past record of breaking them). I'm now tied up between a Ford 8.8 (controversial on here, I know) and a local Dana 60 on CL. It's not in my budget to swing the Dana 60 from Currie, so I'd be doing all the fab on the axle myself. Do you think the Ford 8.8 will handle the stress from the 5.9 just fine? The main reason I'm shying away from the Dana 60 is because it's so much wider, even though it is a brand new, never mounted axle. And then on top of that (if I don't crop it down to a more reasonable width) I'd either have to get new wheels plus adapters for the front or get new axle shafts that match my current lug pattern. Both of which would be costly. On the Ford I'd just have to get a bracketry kit and then I'd run spacers for it to match the front end. Thoughts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RangerRick
Flywheel, Clutch & Bellhousing all will work for your application.

As far as axle is concerned, the 8.8 would hold up but it is a lot of work for the bracket install. I have an 8.8 in my CJ-7 and it has lived behind several V8's including a 350 Corvette 4-bolt main, built 383 & the LM7 5.3L Vortec engine. All three were kicking out more than 300 + Horses and over 330 Ft. Lb. torque numbers. Now it is taking the power from my Cummins 3.9L 4B-T making over 300 Ft. Lb. torque. The 8.8 has a full case Detroit Soft-Locker, 4.10 gears and re-drilled rear axle shafts. Also I had it narrowed to take two passenger shafts so they are of equal length and almost exact width of the original CJ wide-track 1982 & up track width. It was out of a 2001 Ford Explorer so it has the disc brakes and 31 spline 1.32" axle shafts made from 1050 forged and rolled spline shafts as standard equipment. I added an armored cover by SOLID AXLE to it to top everything off.

The easiest route is still to find a TJ Dana 44 used and build it with quality hard parts unless you are going to run a tire larger than 35's, in which case you need a bigger heavier axle in the hard stuff or be very gentle on the clutch & throttle. I used it in the CJ and several YJ Wranglers in the past because leaf sprung Jeeps are easy to configure suspension brackets for. The TJ/LJ 4-link makes things a bit more complicated to setup but there are several companies out there that will sell a housing with the brackets installed or 1/4" plate brackets specifically for the 3.25" diameter tubes used on the 8.8 from a 1995-2001 Explorer. You'll want to weld the tubes to the housing otherwise an axle tube may spin because Ford only pinned the tubes in the housing, not actually rosette welded the tubes in place.

If you're future plans call for 36"+ tires and wheeling really hard trails with heavy undercuts and lots of tight binding, then I would consider something larger than the 8.8 or Dana 44 axle. If 40's are in your future, skip the mid size axles completely and go straight for a full-float 14-bolt, D70HD or aftermarket Dana 60 with 35 spline axle shafts installed. Anything else is futile and a waste.

I will have to take some pictures of the dash switches when I can showing them with the LED illumination.

There are some that have run the 5.2L manual ECM with a 5.9L and manual but I have never heard a difinitive answer as to if it worked alright or the engine was always leaning out due to calibration. Otherwise, maybe BG Chrysler for the ECM flash or there are a few people with the equipment & knowhow. Most of them want you to get your engine running on the ECM and drive it around before they will write a map for your fuel etc. They want to see the data stream saved for your driving habits to create a new air-fuel and spark map program and then dump it into your ECM and see what changes it makes to the driveability. You will have to go the route of having the ECM remapped and flashed due to the engine-transmission combination that you want to run.

I think @Wildman would agree with me on the manual transmission and 5.9L engine combo. He may even have insight on where or who could redefine your ECM so it would work with the manual and 5.9L combo.

RR
 
Last edited:
TreverStevens said:
And final thought, I plan on swapping the rear end on mine. I currently have a Dana 35 in the back. Tired of looking for a Dana 44, especially since you were so against running a Dana 44 behind a V8 (understandably so with your past record of breaking them). I'm now tied up between a Ford 8.8 (controversial on here, I know) and a local Dana 60 on CL. It's not in my budget to swing the Dana 60 from Currie, so I'd be doing all the fab on the axle myself. Do you think the Ford 8.8 will handle the stress from the 5.9 just fine? The main reason I'm shying away from the Dana 60 is because it's so much wider, even though it is a brand new, never mounted axle. And then on top of that (if I don't crop it down to a more reasonable width) I'd either have to get new wheels plus adapters for the front or get new axle shafts that match my current lug pattern. Both of which would be costly. On the Ford I'd just have to get a bracketry kit and then I'd run spacers for it to match the front end. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Trevor, just a thought if you could find shipping cheap enough, @Squach has a Dana 44 from a 2001 TJ with 3.73's and drum brakes complete for $850 that would fit your Jeep and bolt right in. Change the internals to a Locker with R&P of your desired gear ratio and you could be set for a while. Easy enough to put Explorer or ZJ disc brakes on it in the future when and if you decide you need them. Also to put alloy shafts in it at a later date as well.

The only killer on the deal might be shipping cost to your location in KSC. It would still be cheaper and less headache if you're not doing hard core trails or running over 35's.

Just food for thought.......

RR
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJ Starting
I plan on doing a truss kit (Barnes or Artec) for the 8.8 so all the bracketry will kind of puzzle-piece together. Makes doing the swap much easier. Plus I plan on bumping up to 35's once my 33's get shaved down a little more. I can pick up an 8.8 with disks, LSD, and the same gearing as my front axle, plus the truss kit, spacers, brake line extensions/adapters, and everything else I'd need for the swap for about the same price as @Squatch is asking plus the ride for to his Dana 44 (no offense to his price or anything, shipping is just the big killer here). Plus the 8.8 will hold up to the V8 and (eventual 35's) better. I don't plan on going to 40's (as of now). I do plan on regearing the 8.8 somewhere down the road, but gotta get things running first and put some miles on the build.

At this point I'm planning on having someone flash my ECM because I've bought the manual, parts for the manual, and realllllly miss driving a stick. Ha ha. I'm still looking for a wiring harness/ECM, I have a lead on one, but need to follow up to make sure it's the base model. But if I'm already getting my ECM flashed do I have to put in as much effort to make sure it doesn't have the security features?

I looked into Hot Wire, and if I understand correct, they offer a kit that would fix my problem. But it's looking like it's the opposite route you recommended. I think their kit makes the body harness and dash talk with my engine, rather than getting a new engine harness to cooperate with my current body/dash. And it's going to be way more expensive going with their kit ($1,615). Granted, it says this kit will make my manual transmission dreams come true. So I don't know if it includes a ECM already flashed to make that happen? If so, that route might be more efficient in the long run, despite the cost. Here's the link to their pricing chart so you can see what I'm referencing. http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=pricelist

Thanks again for your help and insight on this so far. I really do appreciate it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: RangerRick and Squatch
Sure @TreverStevens,
@Wildman, myself and a few others have already done the conversion so we kinda learned all these pitfalls and subtleties that just researching alone would not always answer up.

The hotwire kit, although nice, ( I bought one of their kits way back in 1988 when I put a C4 Corvette drivetrain in my old S10 pickup truck years ago) was a fine product but is a little spendy when on a budget for their ready-made solution.

** I highly recommend you purchase the service books for your year Jeep and the donor vehicle that I showed earlier in my build here. Every wire and it's color codes are in there and show every junction including ground splices. This book was a real help when blending and adding the plugs for the tub harness to the ZJ engine harness. The bonus for me was that for 1997, both the TJ & ZJ wiring was covered in the ZJ factory 6 book comprehensive shop service manual set. (This was the JTEC electronic engine service manual book), one of the 6 in the ZJ set. This book alone is what made the wiring such a snap for me to configure hands down. I could compare both the TJ & the ZJ on the SAME PAGE in that JTEC service manual plug for plug pin assignments! The main factory service book on the ZJ had the other missing information I needed for the engine side harness and how ZJ's were implemented vs. TJ Wranglers.

The starting and charging systems were almost completely separate from the rest of the harness and the TJ fuel pump/sender harness was also separate compared to the ZJ. I used the TJ starter & charging circuits, the ZJ engine and transmission harness along with the cruise control. Then I used the TJ's fuel pump and sender harness and blended them together to the two big firewall plugs on the TJ tub.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paul Ruggles
I downloaded digital copies of both FSM's and then printed the wiring pages out of them and put them in a binder. The Durango FSM lists things alphabetically where as the TJ FSM follows the flow of the loom if that makes sense. Made for labeling things a little easier on the TJ side, but also had its downsides too. I have both harnesses completely labeled. Every wire on the sensor side of each plug is labeled and then every wire on the PCM connector side is labeled too. I spent a good amount of time doing this, double checking, then triple checking all my tags. It just sucks that I'll have to do it all over again when I get the CCD harness.

I'm tempted to contact HotWire and go that route. At this point it might be a little faster and easier since I already have the dodge harness completely labeled. Especially if their price already includes an ECM that will work with both the 5.9L and the manual trans. Because by the time I get a new harness, put in the hours to label it, splice/graft in what I need/don't need, get the Durango ECU shipped to someone, flashed, and shipped back, I might be in about the same price range as the HotWire kit. Unless you think my labor hours to put the HotWire kit in with switching the dash and all that would be about the same?
 
TreverStevens said:
I downloaded digital copies of both FSM's and then printed the wiring pages out of them and put them in a binder. The Durango FSM lists things alphabetically where as the TJ FSM follows the flow of the loom if that makes sense. Made for labeling things a little easier on the TJ side, but also had its downsides too. I have both harnesses completely labeled. Every wire on the sensor side of each plug is labeled and then every wire on the PCM connector side is labeled too. I spent a good amount of time doing this, double checking, then triple checking all my tags. It just sucks that I'll have to do it all over again when I get the CCD harness.

I'm tempted to contact HotWire and go that route. At this point it might be a little faster and easier since I already have the dodge harness completely labeled. Especially if their price already includes an ECM that will work with both the 5.9L and the manual trans. Because by the time I get a new harness, put in the hours to label it, splice/graft in what I need/don't need, get the Durango ECU shipped to someone, flashed, and shipped back, I might be in about the same price range as the HotWire kit. Unless you think my labor hours to put the HotWire kit in with switching the dash and all that would be about the same?
Click to expand...
I don't know because I don't know your skill set and how long it would take you to integrate a ready-made vs. roll-your-own harness. On the time side, you would probably come out ahead to buy ready made but how much do you consider your time worth vs. just paying someone to do it like that, I don't know.

For what I know after doing this swap, I am glad I didn't spend the money on a ready-made harness because mine looks factory and integrated seamlessly with the TJ. The only real reason it matters where the engine side harness is your doccumentation for it really. The manuals help with color codes and connectors. Example: On the ZJ many common wires were orange, the same common wires on the TJ were black with a small white tracer stripe. These were common sensor return or data ground wires in this example. Made splicing and figuring out where things went to easier with the detailed documentation.
 
RangerRick said:
I don't know because I don't know your skill set and how long it would take you to integrate a ready-made vs. roll-your-own harness. On the time side, you would probably come out ahead to buy ready made but how much do you consider your time worth vs. just paying someone to do it like that, I don't know.

For what I know after doing this swap, I am glad I didn't spend the money on a ready-made harness because mine looks factory and integrated seamlessly with the TJ. The only real reason it matters where the engine side harness is your doccumentation for it really. The manuals help with color codes and connectors. Example: On the ZJ many common wires were orange, the same common wires on the TJ were black with a small white tracer stripe. These were common sensor return or data ground wires in this example. Made splicing and figuring out where things went to easier with the detailed documentation.
Click to expand...
Sorry for my delays in replying, been a hectic few weeks and not much progress made on the project (besides collecting a few more parts and painting the engine). I spoke with Hot Wire and their cost is just to build the harness, no PCM provided or flashed so that option is dead. I have my entire harness de-loomed and completely labeled currently (been that way for a month now). I did speak with B&G about the cost to flash my PCM and if they had any input for me on the CCD/PCI deal. Dave said all the differences are contained in the PCM between CCD and the PCI and he can "flash them out". So if that's all that needs to happen I haven't kit a road block nearly as big as I had thought.

I'm still looking for a decently priced Ford 8.8. There's a place that buys up all sorts of Fords and parts them out, but they know what can be done with the 8.8 axles so they have a price tag of $300-400 (depending on the LSD option or not). So I'm attempting to find one from someone on Craigslist with a wrecked Explorer or Ranger in hopes to get it for closer to $100. Even at $300, buying the truss kit, and the other little things I'd need to swap I'd still be in cheaper than a Dana 44.

Planning to buy the radiator within the next week. Have any input or advice on this? As of right now, I'm planning to get one from Superior. And what's your stance on electric fan or mechanical fan for the Magnum?
 
You DON'T want a Ranger 8.8 axle in your TJ because they are narrower than the Explorer version and compound the problems that brings. Unless you're planning to do a "C" clip elimination kit which will bring you back in the neighborhood or it's going under a wide-track CJ, just say NO. Also, only the later Rangers with the 4.0 and certain 4x4 transmission & transfer case packages had 32 spline shafts, the rest including ALL 2WD got the standard 28 splines so STAY AWAY from Ranger 8.8's.

You want an 8.8 from a 1995-2001 Explorer. It will come with the disc brakes and possibly the correct gear ratio. The 1991-1994 Explorer 4dr will work but only came with drum brakes. I would look for an OPEN CARRIER over any LS carrier for the sake of ease to install a "lunch box locker" in it. You simply can't do anything with the LS and it is a really crappy design for serious off-roading that I wouldn't even consider running it. Besides when I sold my old stock carrier, I found the open was worth way more because guys wanted to put a locker in it and were having trouble finding a plain open carrier separately.

I found an 8.8 out of a front-end wrecked 2001 that had almost everything I wanted out of the gate. It was an OPEN, it had 3.73 gears and disc brakes. Everything was in great shape because the truck only had 40K on it when wrecked. It cost me $225 complete including the parking cables and part of the rear suspension still attached to it.
Had I gone to a Pick-Your-Part on 1/2 price day a week later, I could have gotten one for as low as $75 at the time! Now they run about $125 though on 1/2 price day. (The pricing is due to scrap steel price, inventory of cars and demand.) Here in the desert climate of the South West, nothing is all rusted up and bolts come off easily. The used axles don't need layers of flaky rust sand blasted off to clean up. If I lived in the rust belt, I would buy my parts from a desert climate state and pay shipping to avoid the crusty crap I've seen being passed off as "good" salvage yard parts.

If you're going to do an 8.8, get the right one from the start........
 
Alrighty, good to know all of that. I had read a few write ups about swapping and some had mentioned the Ranger as an option. I had tentatively planned on doing a lunchbox in the front and running the LS in the rear and eventually doing an Ox locker or something like that later. But it seems you recommend the open for now and then a lunchbox. Why the lunchbox over one of the various other lockers besides cost and simplicity to install?

And any insight to the cooling system while we're at it?
 
And what's the easiest way to find out how many splines are on the axle when looking at them?
 
Well if the axle came out of the right vehicle, you don't really have to verify unless you want to or you think someone swapped parts.

1995-2001 4-Dr Explorers V6 or V8 2x, 4x or AWD will have them. This is the more rounded looking Explorer, not the squared off body early version.
 
I was more so curious because someone is locally selling a 8.8 Detroit locker at a decent price.
 
If the price is right, I would probably pick the Detroit up if it is the full case locker, not a lunchbox. Just make sure it is a 31 spline and not a 28 splines. If it is cheap enough, it still may be convertible to 31 splines if you can order the parts from the manufacturer separately.
 
Have any advice for the cooling system? I'm not finding the radiator you said you used and a lot I'm finding are titled "V8 swap radiator" or "Chevy V8 swap". Does anything else really matter besides being able to mount up in the stock location?
 
The one I used is for V8 conversions. You want a quality welded radiator if you go with aluminum, otherwise you could use the stock radiator but would have to move the plumbing around a bit to make it work. The factory radiators are actually really good at cooling except the plastic tanks which leak and can crack over time. Mine cracked where the transmission cooler nipples came out of it and the upper tank was seeping a little at the seams. I will have to look at the box when I get home to see what the part number is on it.

*Going to get parts tomorrow morning to build a dual Jerry can & Hi-Lift jack swing-out tire carrier off of the existing bumper I have. A little welding and drilling it should work out just fine. When filled up to maximum I will have 35 Gallons of fuel. Enough for even the longest desert trek in North America between fill-ups.

*Even though it's HAM radios biggest weekend called Field Day, I think I will still work on my Jeep and maybe install the HF radio in it then test it out on a few contacts before the contest ends this weekend.

RR
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJ Starting
Anyone following my posts interested in their own on the cheapo TJ project should check it out:

Anyone in So. CAL looking for a cheap Wrangler TJ to rebuild I just posted one in the FOR SALE FINDS area off of CL. Add is less than 24 hrs old, don't know if it is still available but it has a hard top. It's something similar to what I started with here with "Red Head" if any of you readers want to build "The Purple Dinosaur" or "The Purple People Eater", both good names for a project.......

Yeah, NO I can't take her in. No free beds at my "home for the abused, broke down, neglected and derelict Jeep. A Jeep rescue." right now......

RR
100502
 
Last edited:
Would you 100% avoid using a Dana 44 in the rear of your Magnum build? I know you expressed this a little earlier when you said you were using the Dana 60's. I had planned on using a Ford 8.8, but just had a Dana 44 out of a Rubicon come up for only about $100 more than I can pick up an 8.8. Plus I don't have to get a bracket kit or a truss. And according to the seller the factory locker on the Dana 44 still works and he's including all the parts I'd need for that.
 
TreverStevens said:
Would you 100% avoid using a Dana 44 in the rear of your Magnum build? I know you expressed this a little earlier when you said you were using the Dana 60's. I had planned on using a Ford 8.8, but just had a Dana 44 out of a Rubicon come up for only about $100 more than I can pick up an 8.8. Plus I don't have to get a bracket kit or a truss. And according to the seller the factory locker on the Dana 44 still works and he's including all the parts I'd need for that.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on where and how you are going to wheel and how much the axle is costing in actual money to get it slung under the TJ.

How do you plan to use the Jeep? Hard core wheeling or anything that could deliver shock load enough to break the axle would affect my decision. If 33's were the largest tire or you aren't planning on trips over the Rubicon trail or fordyce, JV etc. and your easy on it or have an automatic transmission, I may consider a built Dana 44. If 35" and up tires, manual transmission, 4:1 transfer case and hard trails are in your eventual future, skip the Dana 44. Otherwise it may be fine and will probably really be fine with 33" and smaller tires on the street or dirt roads etc.

You gotta analyze your realistic expectations on what you really plan to do with the Jeep to make an accurate decision. Personally, I wouldn't invest more than $1200-1800 in a fully built Dana 44. By fully built I mean it has Chromolly axle shafts, full case aftermarket locker such as Detroit, ARB, OX, or Eaton ELocker and possibly trussed or reinforcedcontrol arm brackets with an armored diff cover to boot. Otherwise it's not fully built or is a stock variant and this includes a Rubicon axle unless the seller replaced the shafts in it at a minimum. The factory locker is not that strong either so it's only a step up from a non ruby in my opinion with 35"+ tires. Any more $ than this, you may as well invest in the big boy parts for serious beef but only worth it if you are expecting to put on the armor pounds and exceed the torque rating of the Dana 44 axle parts because of lots of torque multiplication and leverage of huge tires. Any tire bigger than 35's and you'll be replacing broken parts if you really use the Jeep for serious wheeling.
 
I should also mention deep gears like 4.88 to 5.39's also add stress to the 4:1 transfer case and manual transmission with large tires can break Dana 44 parts. Also I don't like varying from stock spline shafts unless you're going way overkill. AKA: No super 33 or 35 kits for the Dana 44 or you'll have real trouble on the trail if it breaks and YOU aren't carrying your own spares cause God help you! Nobody else will likely have them in the outback.
 
Top Bottom
Back