Structurally Sound Rock Sliders

[mrblaine]

I'm saying three things. And in case you're having some cognitive problems I'll say them again.

1. They work for me. I like 'em.
2. They have never caused me or any one of the 60 or so people I've known who have had them on thier rigs problems. Maybe they've caused problems somewhere but like I said, I've never seen it in person. And..maybe I'm just not as hard-core as some of the rock crawlers you've run across.

I'll add a #3.

3. You can go find a corner to fuck yourself for implying that I'm neither "real smart" or "leading folks down the garden path". Prime example of your belittling behavior.

If you can look at the pictures I put up and tell folks that is a good or smart design, then we know precisely where the problem lies. It is not belittling to point out the fallacy of someone's position. If you recommend the PS bullshit to anyone you are not very smart or you are leading them down the garden path for some reason, presumably blissful willful ignorance.

 

[skrelnik]

I'm saying three things. And in case you're having some cognitive problems I'll say them again.

1. They work for me. I like 'em.
2. They have never caused me or any one of the 60 or so people I've known who have had them on thier rigs problems. Maybe they've caused problems somewhere but like I said, I've never seen it in person. And..maybe I'm just not as hard-core as some of the rock crawlers you've run across.

I'll add a #3.

3. You can go find a corner to fuck yourself for implying that I'm neither "real smart" or "leading folks down the garden path". Prime example of your belittling behavior.

You were just Blained! You will learn on this forum you cannot speak negatively about Savvy or Currie, and it's not worth the argument, just post your results and let the reader make up their own mind. You did a good job, but it's really not worth the battle. Been there done that, like lots of others.

 

[mrblaine]

You were just Blained! You will learn on this forum you cannot speak negatively about Savvy or Currie, and it's not worth the argument, just post your results and let the reader make up their own mind. You did a good job, but it's really not worth the battle. Been there done that, like lots of others.

View attachment 193172

A good job of what, misleading folks? This has zero to do with Savvy or Currie. It has solely to do with the title of the thread. Structurally sound rock sliders. The PS bullshit is not structurally sound and never will be. It doesn't take much mechanical aptitude or intelligence to look at the pictures I've take of what I see. I didn't decide one day that I didn't like PS. I kept getting rigs in to fix and work on that exhibited the same series of issues. Being a highly mechanical person, a small bit of investigation revealed the root cause and that is a severe lack of structural integrity due to the absolute shit mounting system, the stupid fucking notch in the corner armor to get around the end of the rails due to them not being wheel well to wheel well coverage.

None of that is an attribute you would assign to a structurally sound design and the pictures clearly show that.

So no, he hasn't been Blained!, he has been shown that regardless of his experiences, there are many to the contrary that show you will really tear up what is supposed to be protected if you plan to use them as intended.

 

[skrelnik]

A good job of what, misleading folks? This has zero to do with Savvy or Currie. It has solely to do with the title of the thread. Structurally sound rock sliders. The PS bullshit is not structurally sound and never will be. It doesn't take much mechanical aptitude or intelligence to look at the pictures I've take of what I see. I didn't decide one day that I didn't like PS. I kept getting rigs in to fix and work on that exhibited the same series of issues. Being a highly mechanical person, a small bit of investigation revealed the root cause and that is a severe lack of structural integrity due to the absolute shit mounting system, the stupid fucking notch in the corner armor to get around the end of the rails due to them not being wheel well to wheel well coverage.

None of that is an attribute you would assign to a structurally sound design and the pictures clearly show that.

So no, he hasn't been Blained!, he has been shown that regardless of his experiences, there are many to the contrary that show you will really tear up what is supposed to be protected if you plan to use them as intended.

A good job of giving his experiences, along with the experiences from his other group members. Real world experiences are one of the things a reader wants to hear about. He did a good job with that.

You also do a great job of explaining of your stuff, which I have read countless times and do understand why they are better in a certain environment. But, as a reader I can make up my own mind on what to buy after sifting through reviews. Your sliders are great, but since I live in New England, that guy's experience is a little more relevant/specific to me, than someone from the southwest/west coast. So maybe I don't need to pay a premium for your sliders and my $200 Mopar sliders are just fine and dandy for me.

 

[mrblaine]

A good job of giving his experiences, along with the experiences from his other group members. Real world experiences are one of the things a reader wants to hear about. He did a good job with that.

You also do a great job of explaining of your stuff, which I have read countless times and do understand why they are better in a certain environment. But, as a reader I can make up my own mind on what to buy after sifting through reviews. Your sliders are great, but since I live in New England, that guy's experience is a little more relevant/specific to me, than someone from the southwest/west coast. So maybe I don't need to pay a premium for your sliders and my $200 Mopar sliders are just fine and dandy for me.

You fully miss that I don't give a shit what you run. I don't give a shit what anybody runs. What I do give a shit about is nobody gets mislead about the structural integrity of a product.

If you listen to dipshit Ejay and go tear up your rig because you actually need a rock slider that functions as one, that makes you a moron for review based purchases and that isn't right.

 

[skrelnik]

You fully miss that I don't give a shit what you run. I don't give a shit what anybody runs. What I do give a shit about is nobody gets mislead about the structural integrity of a product.

If you listen to dipshit Ejay and go tear up your rig because you actually need a rock slider that functions as one, that makes you a moron for review based purchases and that isn't right.

But if someone with PS sliders does not tear up their rig, then are you the moron?

Point being is you said your stuff, and it is well said and documented. You have educated a lot of members on this forum, and that is great, you do a shit-ton of great stuff for the forum....but Ejay is stating his factual experiences, that's it. He is not a dipshit for telling his stories about rock sliders. That's where your emotions are getting the best of you, because of how passionate you are, and the amount of research you have put towards building Jeeps and other stuff.

 

[mrblaine]

But if someone with PS sliders does not tear up their rig, then are you the moron?

No, I am not the moron because only a fucking idiot would look at the pictures I put up of actual damaged caused by the very thing that is supposed to not do that and decide that is a worthwhile product.

Point being is you said your stuff, and it is well said and documented. You have educated a lot of members on this forum, and that is great, you do a shit-ton of great stuff for the forum....but Ejay is stating his factual experiences, that's it. He is not a dipshit for telling his stories about rock sliders. That's where your emotions are getting the best of you, because of how passionate you are, and the amount of research you have put towards building Jeeps and other stuff.

It isn't emotion, it is simple factual structural integrity. If you plan to use your sliders as intended, pick something that does NOT have anything to do with the body mounts for mounting them.

Here is the part you are overlooking. Everyone likes to think they are rough and tumble wheelers that go play hard. The litmus test for that is very simple when it comes to PS sliders. Are they tearing up your rig and failing? If the answer is no, then you aren't playing as hard as you think you are and that is as simple as it gets because the design does not permit anything else.

 

[Mr. Bills]

Once you understand why one design is better than the other, why would one choose the lesser. . . ?

One reason might be that the particular application doesn't require the "better" design, i.e., a lesser product might be good enough for one's particular situation allowing limited resources to be allocated to other aspects of a project.

Another might be that the "lesser" design has a feature one desires that a "better" design doesn't. For example, a rock slider step large enough or wide enough to support a muddy boot without slipping.

The Savvy sliders designed by Blaine are unquestionably structurally sound and do exactly what rock sliders need to do with an unmatched elegance of design. However, I like the step function of my Shrockworks sliders better than the Savvy sliders, and my existing Shrockworks sliders have done their job without issue and with no damage to my rig such that there is no compelling reason for me to change.

I can understand why Blaine is so direct with his criticism of the Poison Spyder sliders. I think a calculation of Blaine's time and the cost to his clients for him to repair damage caused by that design would be eye opening. Regardless of one's feelings about his style of delivery, his message that Poison Spyder sliders are not a structurally sound design isn't wrong.

That doesn't make Poison Spyder sliders a terrible choice for everyone, and no one should be castigated for suggesting them, just don't call them structurally sound in the face of a visible design flaw. They have many attributes but that is not one.

I like my Shrockworks sliders. I offer no opinion about structural soundness or lack thereof. That is above my pay grade.

https://www.shrockworks.com/Jeep

 

[B00mb00m]

But if someone with PS sliders does not tear up their rig, then are you the moron?

Point being is you said your stuff, and it is well said and documented. You have educated a lot of members on this forum, and that is great, you do a shit-ton of great stuff for the forum....but Ejay is stating his factual experiences, that's it. He is not a dipshit for telling his stories about rock sliders. That's where your emotions are getting the best of you, because of how passionate you are, and the amount of research you have put towards building Jeeps and other stuff.

Come on guys it's more important that someone feel like they're contributing by sharing their feeling on a product versus actually discussing the mechanical strengths and weaknesses.

 

[skrelnik]

No, I am not the moron because only a fucking idiot would look at the pictures I put up of actual damaged caused by the very thing that is supposed to not do that and decide that is a worthwhile product.


It isn't emotion, it is simple factual structural integrity. If you plan to use your sliders as intended, pick something that does NOT have anything to do with the body mounts for mounting them.

Here is the part you are overlooking. Everyone likes to think they are rough and tumble wheelers that go play hard. The litmus test for that is very simple when it comes to PS sliders. Are they tearing up your rig and failing? If the answer is no, then you aren't playing as hard as you think you are and that is as simple as it gets because the design does not permit anything else.

I agree with you here, and not overlooking that theory, but where I deviate is, and @Mr. Bills said what I was going to, is not everyone plays that hard, nor wants to, and that's why multiple opinions and results are good, to educate the reader, so they can come to the conclusion that best fits their need. PS sliders suck in your opinion, but worked for that guy Ejay and his intended uses. He just gave his opinion and results, nothing more.

Remember this is not a rock crawling forum, this is a general TJ site, so we are all different and want different looks and products.

Come on guys it's more important that someone feel like they're contributing by sharing their feeling on a product versus actually discussing the mechanical strengths and weaknesses.

Mechanical sliders would be like converting the TJ into a transformer. What gear lube do you use on your mechanical sliders?

@ejay - this is what happens on this forum. No more slider talk!

 

[jjvw]

One reason might be that the particular application doesn't require the "better" design, i.e., a lesser product might be good enough for one's particular situation allowing limited resources to be allocated to other aspects of a project.

Another might be that the "lesser" design has a feature one desires that a "better" design doesn't. For example, a rock slider step large enough or wide enough to support a muddy boot without slipping.

The Savvy sliders designed by Blaine are unquestionably structurally sound and do exactly what rock sliders need to do with an unmatched elegance of design. However, I like the step function of my Shrockworks sliders better than the Savvy sliders, and my existing Shrockworks sliders have done their job without issue and with no damage to my rig such that there is no compelling reason for me to change.

I can understand why Blaine is so direct with his criticism of the Poison Spyder sliders. I think a calculation of Blaine's time and the cost to his clients for him to repair damage caused by that design would be eye opening. Regardless of one's feelings about his style of delivery, his message that Poison Spyder sliders are not a structurally sound design isn't wrong.

That doesn't make Poison Spyder sliders a terrible choice for everyone, and no one should be castigated for suggesting them, just don't call them structurally sound in the face of a visible design flaw. They have many attributes but that is not one.

I like my Shrockworks sliders. I offer no opinion about structural soundness or lack thereof. That is above my pay grade.

https://www.shrockworks.com/Jeep
View attachment 193185

What does PS offer that others don't that makes their design flaw an acceptable compromise? From what I can tell, your SW sliders don't fall into this category where there is an inherent design flaw that needs to be overlooked in order to get some other exclusive feature.

As I said earlier, there are plenty of other slider options that get one all the features desired without also including PS's design flaw. Shockworks looks to be an example of this.

 

[jjvw]

I agree with you here, and not overlooking that theory, but where I deviate is, and @Mr. Bills said what I was going to, is not everyone plays that hard, nor wants to, and that's why multiple opinions and results are good, to educate the reader, so they can come to the conclusion that best fits their need. PS sliders suck in your opinion, but worked for that guy Ejay and his intended uses. He just gave his opinion and results, nothing more.

Remember this is not a rock crawling forum, this is a general TJ site, so we are all different and want different looks and products.



Mechanical sliders would be like converting the TJ into a transformer. What gear lube do you use on your mechanical sliders?

@ejay - this is what happens on this forum. No more slider talk!

Given what I've seen, even if one is looking at rock sliders to provide a step, PS is still the inferior design.

So, I will ask again. What does PS offer in their slider that cannot be found elsewhere that makes their inferior mounting design permissable?

 

[ejay]

I'm surprised that this thread is still alive. Yup, I've been 'Blained'. Big deal. He's a mouthy old man. No shortage of those in the world. Some of what he says is factual. Some of what he says is opinion. Some of what he says is juvenile. I suppose that there is a little of that arrogance in all of us. Maybe not is such high concentrations.....

Let's not put too much energy into what angry old men call you on the internet.

I said my part based on my experiences. I never once stated that PS isn't a causal factor to damaged tubs or that they are not without fault. In fact, I even conceded (more than once) that it probably could happen. For some reason, that's been largely ignored.

As for the rust issues, I've also conceded (more than once) that could also be an issue. Same issue as many sliders; structurally sound or not.

Oh, and hey, I'll say it again. I like my Poison Spyder Rock Sliders. They've worked great for nearly ten years without issue. You can see in my pics that I've used them a little, too.

Thanks to jjvw for actually going to the effort of detailing the faults, in the end, without the name calling.

If I had to take anything back, it would be to have read the tittle of the thread better before posting. Are PS structurally sound? Better than some and not as good as others I suppose. Evidence to both sides of that argument in previous threads.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

My thoughts on this whole PS issue, is the PS sliders are designed to work as a system with the fenders, and the rear corner armor. Every one of the photos that were shown as to the sliders causing damage were them being used as a stand alone component. Some of the damage I saw on the last photos of the white TJ, were self inflicted by not properly sealing the drilled holes to mount the sliders. (I would be willing to say that between not using the complete system, and wrong/improper mounting procedures that these issues are mostly self inflicted.)

Ya'll go play nice and get off the old guy's lawn...

 

[jjvw]

My thoughts on this whole PS issue, is the PS sliders are designed to work as a system with the fenders, and the rear corner armor. Every one of the photos that were shown as to the sliders causing damage were them being used as a stand alone component. Some of the damage I saw on the last photos of the white TJ, were self inflicted by not properly sealing the drilled holes to mount the sliders. (I would be willing to say that between not using the complete system, and wrong/improper mounting procedures that these issues are mostly self inflicted.)

Ya'll go play nice and get off the old guy's lawn...

Your argument is that PS sliders need the rest of their system to work better?

 

[Mr. Bills]

What does PS offer that others don't that makes their design flaw an acceptable compromise?

Don't know; don't care. I lost all interest in Poison Spyder products when the company was acquired by Transamerican Auto Parts in 2015.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Your argument is that PS sliders need the rest of their system to work better?

It was designed to work as a system, each component is notched and cut to fit each other.

You wouldn't run a front driveshaft without a front axle....

 

[Mr. Bills]

Your logic is flawed. Simply because the pieces are notched to fit each other doesn't mean they must be used together to work properly.

I have trousers with belt loops and suspender buttons.

Does that mean I must wear a belt and suspenders to keep my trousers up?

 

[jjvw]

Don't know; don't care. I lost all interest in Poison Spyder products when the company was acquired by Transamerican Auto Parts in 2015.

Piling on the PS criticism!

 

[jjvw]

It was designed to work as a system, each component is notched and cut to fit each other.

You wouldn't run a front driveshaft without a front axle....

Now you get to show us how exactly one PS component is mechanically dependent on another PS component in order to provide its intended function.