Woodrow's 97 Green TJ (NOT SO) Moderate Build
- Thread starter Woodrow
- Start date
When you weren't clear with your builder
I don't know why we would even want a ford engine in a jeep. GM is ubiquitous.
Fixed it for you, Matt. I X-d out ubiquitous because I don't know what it means.
14 bolt smartness
I forgot to mention how much quicker the Jeep feels now
OK that stuff is just revolting. You LS and hemi guys need some beauty in your lives, like this:
You’re welcome
OK that stuff is just revolting. You LS and hemi guys need some beauty in your lives, like this:
View attachment 698622
You’re welcome
It will fit ! , of course some of us like HVAC.
OK that stuff is just revolting. You LS and hemi guys need some beauty in your lives, like this:
View attachment 698622
You’re welcome
AI!
Calling all engine builders: How much of a problem is this?
@GoldenGorilla @Rickyd @SkylinesSuck @Wildman @NashvilleTJ @mrblaine -Also, who else do you recommend inviting opinions from?
I think you all may recall I have a Golen 4.6L stroker that I purchased new and installed in 2021. It now has about 20,000 miles on it. I bought it with all the covers installed but no distributor, water pump or intake/exhaust manifolds. I’ve been generally satisfied but there have been issues. Things relevant to this post are oil leaks and mechanical noise.
Noise first: since I installed the engine, it has always had much more mechanical noise than the 4.0 that it replaced. This has remained constant from 1st start. The noise doesn’t seem ominous, just annoying. I have attributed this to two things. One, the fact that it is a ‘92 block and therefore, pre-NVH. Second, it’s a stroker and presumably has stiffer valve springs. Recently, I drove @macleanflood ’s home built stroker with NVH block and a Clegg stage 2 kit, and it was remarkably smooth and quiet.
Leaks: The valve cover gasket leaked. It was OK at first but got worse with time. I fixed that. While I had the valve cover off, I didn’t check torques, but did touch all of the rockers and nothing seemed loose. Next, the seal in the timing cover that goes around the front of the crankshaft behind the harmonic balancer has leaked oil since the beginning. And, of course, the rear main seal leaks. It started as a dampness of oil on the back of the pan from day one. But recently, it has begun to drip onto the floor and seems to be accelerating. I had hoped to delay addressing the rear main until this winter, but the drip has become pretty consistent.
That leads me to today. I decided to address the rear main seal and timing chain cover crankshaft seal together. Also, while I was in there, I planned to add a crankshaft girdle, which the pre-NVH blocks did not have, in an attempt to address some of the noise. So, I pulled the fan, radiator, oil pan, timing chain cover, as well as the starter. Inspection showed the rear main looked fine despite the leak and the rear main bearing looked OK at least on the bottom:
The front crankshaft seal in the timing cover was bad:
Here’s A test fit of the girdle which I got on eBay. I will need to space it with some washers to clear the rod bearing caps (blue arrow):
The red arrow above is the problem. I was looking at the camshaft to see if any obvious wear of the camshaft lobes was present, which I could not see. However, the camshaft bearings seem to be extruding from the journals. There are two bearings along the length of the cam besides the front and rear. The following four pictures are the front and back of those two bearings:
You can see what appears to be extrusion of a portion of the camshaft bearings on both sides on the rear end on the rear of the front primarily. In addition, the front piece seems to be about ready to break off. Here’s a picture of a it after I pulled it off along with another small fragment I found in the bottom of the oil pan:
The final piece of information is I’ve done Blackstone labs oil analysis on this engine twice (once around 5000 miles and another around 15,000 miles) and both came back with higher than normal metal particles at similar levels. All this certainly doesn’t seem right to me. Actually, it kind of feels like I’m going to be pulling my engine. I talked it over with @macleanflood who predictably said, fix the rear main and “send it” for the summer and then address it this winter. I am inclined to agree because I don’t want to miss wheeling season and I may do that but I’m open to suggestions.
So, what do you all think?
@GoldenGorilla @Rickyd @SkylinesSuck @Wildman @NashvilleTJ @mrblaine -Also, who else do you recommend inviting opinions from?
I think you all may recall I have a Golen 4.6L stroker that I purchased new and installed in 2021. It now has about 20,000 miles on it. I bought it with all the covers installed but no distributor, water pump or intake/exhaust manifolds. I’ve been generally satisfied but there have been issues. Things relevant to this post are oil leaks and mechanical noise.
Noise first: since I installed the engine, it has always had much more mechanical noise than the 4.0 that it replaced. This has remained constant from 1st start. The noise doesn’t seem ominous, just annoying. I have attributed this to two things. One, the fact that it is a ‘92 block and therefore, pre-NVH. Second, it’s a stroker and presumably has stiffer valve springs. Recently, I drove @macleanflood ’s home built stroker with NVH block and a Clegg stage 2 kit, and it was remarkably smooth and quiet.
Leaks: The valve cover gasket leaked. It was OK at first but got worse with time. I fixed that. While I had the valve cover off, I didn’t check torques, but did touch all of the rockers and nothing seemed loose. Next, the seal in the timing cover that goes around the front of the crankshaft behind the harmonic balancer has leaked oil since the beginning. And, of course, the rear main seal leaks. It started as a dampness of oil on the back of the pan from day one. But recently, it has begun to drip onto the floor and seems to be accelerating. I had hoped to delay addressing the rear main until this winter, but the drip has become pretty consistent.
That leads me to today. I decided to address the rear main seal and timing chain cover crankshaft seal together. Also, while I was in there, I planned to add a crankshaft girdle, which the pre-NVH blocks did not have, in an attempt to address some of the noise. So, I pulled the fan, radiator, oil pan, timing chain cover, as well as the starter. Inspection showed the rear main looked fine despite the leak and the rear main bearing looked OK at least on the bottom:
The front crankshaft seal in the timing cover was bad:
Here’s A test fit of the girdle which I got on eBay. I will need to space it with some washers to clear the rod bearing caps (blue arrow):
The red arrow above is the problem. I was looking at the camshaft to see if any obvious wear of the camshaft lobes was present, which I could not see. However, the camshaft bearings seem to be extruding from the journals. There are two bearings along the length of the cam besides the front and rear. The following four pictures are the front and back of those two bearings:
You can see what appears to be extrusion of a portion of the camshaft bearings on both sides on the rear end on the rear of the front primarily. In addition, the front piece seems to be about ready to break off. Here’s a picture of a it after I pulled it off along with another small fragment I found in the bottom of the oil pan:
The final piece of information is I’ve done Blackstone labs oil analysis on this engine twice (once around 5000 miles and another around 15,000 miles) and both came back with higher than normal metal particles at similar levels. All this certainly doesn’t seem right to me. Actually, it kind of feels like I’m going to be pulling my engine. I talked it over with @macleanflood who predictably said, fix the rear main and “send it” for the summer and then address it this winter. I am inclined to agree because I don’t want to miss wheeling season and I may do that but I’m open to suggestions.
So, what do you all think?
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That’s what it looks like to me. Assuming this isn’t normal, and I can’t see how it is, the first question is: How did this happen? And the second is: How much longer can I run the engine before having a bigger problem? I’d really like to do at least one more big wheeling trip this summer.
I have not seen the "extruded" hammered cambearings issue before the in many SBC and BBC builds I've been around . It seems odd to me , but who knows where the installed height and on the nose spring pressures are at , since you didn't do the build . Since the deformed bearings are on the bottom of the engine , it is possible for high spring or low low pressure could play a major part in this . Is it right , no . but you likely could delay a real tear down/ inspection / refresh in a couple months . Also be sure to shim the girdle down from the main bearing caps . Ask Mac why .
I have not seen the "extruded" hammered cambearings issue before the in many SBC and BBC builds I've been around . It seems odd to me , but who knows where the installed height and on the nose spring pressures are at , since you didn't do the build . Since the deformed bearings are on the bottom of the engine , it is possible for high spring or low low pressure could play a major part in this . Is it right , no . but you likely could delay a real tear down/ inspection / refresh in a couple months . Also be sure to shim the girdle down from the main bearing caps . Ask Mac why .
Thank you for your eval.
I am leaning toward changing the seals, installing the girdle (with washers to space it down a bit) and buttoning it up for the summer.
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Those bearings have seen excessive pressure/heat. Lack of oil pressure, poor cam-to-bearing clearances, or misaligned journal centers can all cause that. Misaligned oil holes can, too, but that would be glaringly obvious, and you wouldn't get 20k miles out of it. I'm not one to "send it," so I'd fix it right, personally. Once there's no babbitt material left, the engine is not long for this world, and the catastrophic failure can be messy ($$). Have you talked to Golen to see what they think?
Since you have some miles on this build , I feel the risk is on the lower side of a problem . In my opinion only use the factory RMS , it's the ONLY one worth the time and effort to install . However , I'm sure Golan didn't give you the engine , so definitely do a tear down investigation / refresh this fall . Now my curiosity is in overdrive on your issue , are the cam bearing oil hole aligned correctly in the block ? , what brand bearings were installed ? , how much has the deck/head been cut ? , was a non adjustable valvetrain taken into account ? , What are the spring pressures and did anyone check coil bind ? . This is kind of nuts , but I'm sliding down the rabbit hole on YOUR engine issue .
Hang in there and keep us in the loop Woodrow .
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