Do you carry a concealed handgun?

[Chris]

Exactly, one thing I have seen recently with respect to this thread (and the 2nd Amendment) is 2A sanctuary cities/counties are popping up all over the country, even in "Blue" states.

Yep. A close friend of mine lives in Texas, and he tells me all the time how all the major cities in Texas are turning blue and that the state is eventually bound to be a blue state. I believe it too because it's what I see happening in all major cities.

 

[BugoutJeep]

I once heard a story about right vs left that I think is a bit humorous.

A guy from the left is walking down a trail and comes to a gate in his path. He looks around and doesn't see anyone. He knows there will be more following him and wants to help, so he removes the gate and then quickly goes into town to tell everyone.

A guy from the right is walking down the trail and finds the gate. He opens it and closes it and leaves it as it was found. When he gets into town he asks around and finds out who owns the gate and asks the owner about the gate and the owner thanks him for closing it so his livestock won't get out.

Life in the city is very busy and I certainly leaned more that way until I was able to slow down and think more about my actions and I try to listen and research when I can to be better informed on certain issues. I have read a lot about firearms and the law and I've been around the world a bit and I am firmly pro-2A, but I am always wanting to hear a reasoned argument against and none have done more than seem like a short term and usually insignificant fix to any issue we face.

I'm still an independent, but more and more I find the better debates are coming from those on the right. I still like hearing from the left, because I do have to admit they sometimes come up with some very imaginative ideas that make me think but I'm not gambling my life and my family's life on poorly supported imaginative theories. I do worry though that in so many instances the things we should be worrying about, we're not discussing.

I think on some issues it's like we just discovered that our spouse went out and ran up every credit card and every bit of credit and went out and spent all our money with nothing to show for it and instead of discussing the issue, they take the car into the front yard and light it on fire. Except with right vs left it's like one side spent all the money, the other went out and drove up all the credit and then they both went out and set their cars on fire so they could avoid the discussion.

 

[InOmaha]

Constitutional rights should not be subject to opinion polls. What 1st amendment rights are people willing to give up if enough people have an opinion against it. What about tests and licensing to be able to vote? We can't have people with no clue what they're doing picking leaders of the most powerful military in the world.

Polls mean nothing to me on the subject. 60% could say we should be 100% disarmed. Pass an amendment if it means that much to you. We've already given in too much on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and several others. Each side picks little pieces of the constitution they think are important and crap on the rest of it.

That's why the ACLU takes up every 1st amendment case and is quiet on every 2nd amendment case. They aren't a civil liberties group. They're a partisan group that only cares about parts of the constitution.

 

[BugoutJeep]

Could you imagine what the country would be like if there were 20,000+ laws on say the first amendment?

 

[Equilibrium31]

I once heard a story about right vs left that I think is a bit humorous.

A guy from the left is walking down a trail and comes to a gate in his path. He looks around and doesn't see anyone. He knows there will be more following him and wants to help, so he removes the gate and then quickly goes into town to tell everyone.

A guy from the right is walking down the trail and finds the gate. He opens it and closes it and leaves it as it was found. When he gets into town he asks around and finds out who owns the gate and asks the owner about the gate and the owner thanks him for closing it so his livestock won't get out.

Life in the city is very busy and I certainly leaned more that way until I was able to slow down and think more about my actions and I try to listen and research when I can to be better informed on certain issues. I have read a lot about firearms and the law and I've been around the world a bit and I am firmly pro-2A, but I am always wanting to hear a reasoned argument against and none have done more than seem like a short term and usually insignificant fix to any issue we face.

I'm still an independent, but more and more I find the better debates are coming from those on the right. I still like hearing from the left, because I do have to admit they sometimes come up with some very imaginative ideas that make me think but I'm not gambling my life and my family's life on poorly supported imaginative theories. I do worry though that in so many instances the things we should be worrying about, we're not discussing.

I think on some issues it's like we just discovered that our spouse went out and ran up every credit card and every bit of credit and went out and spent all our money with nothing to show for it and instead of discussing the issue, they take the car into the front yard and light it on fire. Except with right vs left it's like one side spent all the money, the other went out and drove up all the credit and then they both went out and set their cars on fire so they could avoid the discussion.

I commend your open mindedness and pragmatism towards issues as that's becoming more and more important as time goes on. However, you seem to frame the left as being a lot more radical than people on the right.

Even if you take a stripped down perspective of left vs right on economics where the left likes taxes and government programs whereas the right opposes those, you don't end up with a deficit with either left or right thinking unless you take an unbalanced approach.

Government programs only add to a deficit if they exceed what the government takes in from taxes. We've also seen Republicans cause a deficit by cutting tax rates without creating enough growth to earnings to offset the decreased tax rate.

And there's also military, which is something Republicans support.

This is pretty much why we have an increasing federal debt right now, despite having a Republican president. This is also how we've had a decreasing deficit during times of Democratic control.

Ultimately, it has less to do with which party is in control of the government and more to do with how level-headed they are in implementing their policies.

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

 

[Equilibrium31]

Constitutional rights should not be subject to opinion polls.

Constitutional rights aren't really subject to opinion polls. We still have all the same amendments that the framers did. The only thing that has changed is the interpretation of those rights, which is a necessity that the Framers understood.

Should the right to bear arms mean that we have the right to own nuclear weapons as private citizens? There's nothing in the second amendment that says that those should be excluded and the term "arms" is vague enough to include those.

 

[Fixer6]

I carry a concealed rock

 

[BugoutJeep]

Something that isn't vague is that firearms are arms and the defense from tyranny even down to the individual shall not be infringed. Machine and repeating arms were not foreign to the founders.

I don't want to pay more taxes, because I'd rather not work the rest of my life to pay for them. So in my household we cut expenses and try to pay down our debt. Even large corporations use similar accounting practices. I do think both sides are awful with our taxes. Both want to spend more and yes there are some on the left that are being honest about paying more in taxes and no one on the right is calling for more taxes. I think this is where we as individuals and as part of community should be doing more and not being taught to do less. I do think the safety net is a bit too large and in many ways I think it keeps people subject to poverty. I do think there's a lot of people on the right being very dishonest and negative towards the needy, however I think the media is culpable and brands many in the right for this unfairly. It worries me when poverty becomes your state of mind. I have seen people with far less that do not live in poverty with much less money and resources than poorest have in this country.

 

[InOmaha]

Constitutional rights aren't really subject to opinion polls. We still have all the same amendments that the framers did. The only thing that has changed is the interpretation of those rights, which is a necessity that the Framers understood.

Should the right to bear arms mean that we have the right to own nuclear weapons as private citizens? There's nothing in the second amendment that says that those should be excluded and the term "arms" is vague enough to include those.

Until clarified by a constitutional amendment yes. Private citizens should be able to have any weapons they can afford.

The red coats were coming to confiscate the armory. It included privately held cannons. The ships and people of the day were armed with the same "military style weapons" as the militaries. That's how they were able to match the best military of that time.

But there's not much need to buy a nuclear weapon and maintain it. Because we already own it as citizens. The "government" owns squat and serves us. If push ever comes to shove, there are more military people that support the 2nd than don't. As if the air force is going to drop bombs on us or something. I go shooting with police and military members whenever the family gets together. The military would dissolve in a heartbeat without the financial and material support of it's citizenship.

I doubt they're going to be harming the cities they grew up in anytime soon. Their mommas might have a word with them.

 

[matkal]

I carry a concealed rock

I thought you were just happy to see me

 

[Jeepers-n-Creepers]

Until clarified by a constitutional amendment yes. Private citizens should be able to have any weapons they can afford.

The red coats were coming to confiscate the armory. It included privately held cannons. The ships and people of the day were armed with the same "military style weapons" as the militaries. That's how they were able to match the best military of that time.

But there's not much need to buy a nuclear weapon and maintain it. Because we already own it as citizens. The "government" owns squat and serves us. If push ever comes to shove, there are more military people that support the 2nd than don't. As if the air force is going to drop bombs on us or something. I go shooting with police and military members whenever the family gets together. The military would dissolve in a heartbeat without the financial and material support of it's citizenship.

I doubt they're going to be harming the cities they grew up in anytime soon. Their mommas might have a word with them.

Having traveled the nation East-to-West and North-to-South more times than some career truckers, I must say that the nicest people I've met were, interestingly enough, in Nebraska. I'm not sure how that pans-out (?). Perhaps it's something in the corn? In which case, perhaps I owe thanks to the Monsanto Corporation (?). This to say that you're in a good place. Nebraskans are great folks--even Houston Alexander (he just looks tough, but he's a sweet huckleberry on the inside )

I can appreciate your sentiments in your previous thread response. I spend a lot of time sitting on a very tall wall, looking out over the horizon--seeing over and above and often through mass-media-mayhem--and into realities which are quickly becoming illegal to so much as verbalize (i.e. the water in the kettle is now boiling--and so is the frog--which happens to be a patriotic frog).

From what I've observed while sitting on this wall for many years, is that the U.S. Constitution became federal-issue bathroom tissue on January 20th, 2009. And, it has remained federal-issue bathroom tissue.

Since January 20th of 2009, our Constitution has been completely ignored and trampled upon, daily. There are but a few fragments of the document left, flitting about in the breeze, ultimately making their way into the gutters of D.C. — right next to Burger King wrappers--refuse wantonly tossed out of car windows by the very people who helped the U.S. Constitution become bathroom tissue on January 20th of 2009.

At the same time that our Constitution became bathroom tissue, our nation officially entered the status of a Police State.

There was a time when the government served the people--that ended on November 22nd of 1963, at 12:30PM, in Dallas Texas.

There was a very brief period, long long ago, when the U.S. citizenry owned the military. However, following the onset of IRS enslavement of U.S. citizens, we own nothing--not even our homes--even when they're paid-for. When you have to pay thousands $$$ in annual property taxes, and you stand to lose your home if you to not, who really owns your home? In late 2010, federal legislation was enacted (while most American slept--deep in the night) which declared that the government could take possession of everything you own, if they deem it in their best interests.

Citizens have no say in the disposition of the average 30% of their pay which goes to supporting federal agencies--including agencies operating in the shadows--and who have produced quite an array of theatrics throughout the nation--since 2009--equating to hundreds of millions of people who have been brainwashed to believe it's in their best interests to forfeit their firearms.

There is a man in D.C. presently (District of Corruption), who is serving the purpose of a doorstop. He has served this position and purpose since January of 2017. More recently, such the doorstop has begun to dislodge, ever so slightly, whereas now the door is slowly moving toward the door frame. Once this door slams shut, the remaining fragments of the Stars-n-Stripes (just a few fragments left at this juncture), will equally list about in a breeze, to ultimately make their way into the same gutter--right alongside the fragments of the Constitution, and the wantonly discarded Burger King wrappers.

At this juncture, @InOmaha, do know that I share your sentiments, and your patriotism. I personally, on more than one occasion, have stared down the wrong end of USSR gun barrels (no longer the "USSR"), in the Black Sea, serving the country that once gave us "Free Speech" - a fragment of which we, for the moment, are enjoying in this Forum--thanks to Chris, who graciously affords us this liberty - a genuine reflection of his belief in Free Speech (unless of course a hapless JKU owner foolishly dares to lambaste the TJ - but that's different ). I mention laying my life on the line for this country, to in turn confess that from this wall upon which I now sit, the horizon is starting to look very grim.

Those of you reading this thread, and who incorporate prayer in your lives; may I implore you to pray in earnest for the state of our nation? As, what I also see from this wall upon which I sit, is that we are teetering dangerously close to Civil War.

Oh, and I almost forgot; my apologies for having completely ignored the OP's initial question; I've been a CCW/CCL Instructor and Range Safety Officer for many years. More recently however, I've enjoyed the challenge of being minus the firearm, and rather relying upon Krav Maga to disarm would-be assailants, to thereafter offer their weapon back to them--as a suppository. For you see, I'm also into holistic, naturophatic health, and "on a dime" I can go from being combative - to genuinely caring for one's overall health .

 

[Fixer6]

Having traveled the nation East-to-West and North-to-South more times than some career truckers, I must say that the nicest people I've met were, interestingly enough, in Nebraska. I'm not sure how that pans-out (?). Perhaps it's something in the corn? In which case, perhaps I owe thanks to the Monsanto Corporation (?). This to say that you're in a good place. Nebraskans are great folks--even Houston Alexander (he just looks tough, but he's a sweet huckleberry on the inside )

View attachment 127939

I can appreciate your sentiments in your previous thread response. I spend a lot of time sitting on a very tall wall, looking out over the horizon--seeing over and above and often through mass-media-mayhem--and into realities which are quickly becoming illegal to so much as verbalize (i.e. the water in the kettle is now boiling--and so is the frog--which happens to be a patriotic frog).

View attachment 127940

From what I've observed while sitting on this wall for many years, is that the U.S. Constitution became federal-issue bathroom tissue on January 20th, 2009. And, it has remained federal-issue bathroom tissue.

Since January 20th of 2009, our Constitution has been completely ignored and trampled upon, daily. There are but a few fragments of the document left, flitting about in the breeze, ultimately making their way into the gutters of D.C. — right next to Burger King wrappers--refuse wantonly tossed out of car windows by the very people who helped the U.S. Constitution become bathroom tissue on January 20th of 2009.

At the same time that our Constitution became bathroom tissue, our nation officially entered the status of a Police State.

View attachment 127944

There was a time when the government served the people--that ended on November 22nd of 1963, at 12:30PM, in Dallas Texas.

View attachment 127945

There was a very brief period, long long ago, when the U.S. citizenry owned the military. However, following the onset of IRS enslavement of U.S. citizens, we own nothing--not even our homes--even when they're paid-for. When you have to pay thousands $$$ in annual property taxes, and you stand to lose your home if you to not, who really owns your home? In late 2010, federal legislation was enacted (while most American slept--deep in the night) which declared that the government could take possession of everything you own, if they deem it in their best interests.

View attachment 127948

Citizens have no say in the disposition of the average 30% of their pay which goes to supporting federal agencies--including agencies operating in the shadows--and who have produced quite an array of theatrics throughout the nation--since 2009--equating to hundreds of millions of people who have been brainwashed to believe it's in their best interests to forfeit their firearms.

There is a man in D.C. presently (District of Corruption), who is serving the purpose of a doorstop. He has served this position and purpose since January of 2017. More recently, such the doorstop has begun to dislodge, ever so slightly, whereas now the door is slowly moving toward the door frame. Once this door slams shut, the remaining fragments of the Stars-n-Stripes (just a few fragments left at this juncture), will equally list about in a breeze, to ultimately make their way into the same gutter--right alongside the fragments of the Constitution, and the wantonly discarded Burger King wrappers.

View attachment 127949

At this juncture, @InOmaha, do know that I share your sentiments, and your patriotism. I personally, on more than one occasion, have stared down the wrong end of USSR gun barrels (no longer the "USSR"), in the Black Sea, serving the country that once gave us "Free Speech" - a fragment of which we, for the moment, are enjoying in this Forum--thanks to Chris, who graciously affords us this liberty - a genuine reflection of his belief in Free Speech (unless of course a hapless JKU owner foolishly dares to lambaste the TJ - but that's different ). I mention laying my life on the line for this country, to in turn confess that from this wall upon which I now sit, the horizon is starting to look very grim.

View attachment 127950

Those of you reading this thread, and who incorporate prayer in your lives; may I implore you to pray in earnest for the state of our nation? As, what I also see from this wall upon which I sit, is that we are teetering dangerously close to Civil War.

Oh, and I almost forgot; my apologies for having completely ignored the OP's initial question; I've been a CCW/CCL Instructor and Range Safety Officer for many years. More recently however, I've enjoyed the challenge of being minus the firearm, and rather relying upon Krav Maga to disarm would-be assailants, to thereafter offer their weapon back to them--as a suppository. For you see, I'm also into holistic, naturophatic health, and "on a dime" I can go from being combative - to genuinely caring for one's overall health .

View attachment 127946

Bravo! Well said!

 

[Jeepers-n-Creepers]

Bravo! Well said!

It was spoken with long-abiding sorrow, brother.

Here's to hope--the one commodity that I will yet refuse to forfeit--even when they come for the guns...

 

[Fixer6]

“Do not go gently into the dying of the light.”

 

[reddvltj]

Having traveled the nation East-to-West and North-to-South more times than some career truckers, I must say that the nicest people I've met were, interestingly enough, in Nebraska. I'm not sure how that pans-out (?). Perhaps it's something in the corn? In which case, perhaps I owe thanks to the Monsanto Corporation (?). This to say that you're in a good place. Nebraskans are great folks--even Houston Alexander (he just looks tough, but he's a sweet huckleberry on the inside )

View attachment 127939

I can appreciate your sentiments in your previous thread response. I spend a lot of time sitting on a very tall wall, looking out over the horizon--seeing over and above and often through mass-media-mayhem--and into realities which are quickly becoming illegal to so much as verbalize (i.e. the water in the kettle is now boiling--and so is the frog--which happens to be a patriotic frog).

View attachment 127940

From what I've observed while sitting on this wall for many years, is that the U.S. Constitution became federal-issue bathroom tissue on January 20th, 2009. And, it has remained federal-issue bathroom tissue.

Since January 20th of 2009, our Constitution has been completely ignored and trampled upon, daily. There are but a few fragments of the document left, flitting about in the breeze, ultimately making their way into the gutters of D.C. — right next to Burger King wrappers--refuse wantonly tossed out of car windows by the very people who helped the U.S. Constitution become bathroom tissue on January 20th of 2009.

At the same time that our Constitution became bathroom tissue, our nation officially entered the status of a Police State.

View attachment 127944

There was a time when the government served the people--that ended on November 22nd of 1963, at 12:30PM, in Dallas Texas.

View attachment 127945

There was a very brief period, long long ago, when the U.S. citizenry owned the military. However, following the onset of IRS enslavement of U.S. citizens, we own nothing--not even our homes--even when they're paid-for. When you have to pay thousands $$$ in annual property taxes, and you stand to lose your home if you to not, who really owns your home? In late 2010, federal legislation was enacted (while most American slept--deep in the night) which declared that the government could take possession of everything you own, if they deem it in their best interests.

View attachment 127948

Citizens have no say in the disposition of the average 30% of their pay which goes to supporting federal agencies--including agencies operating in the shadows--and who have produced quite an array of theatrics throughout the nation--since 2009--equating to hundreds of millions of people who have been brainwashed to believe it's in their best interests to forfeit their firearms.

There is a man in D.C. presently (District of Corruption), who is serving the purpose of a doorstop. He has served this position and purpose since January of 2017. More recently, such the doorstop has begun to dislodge, ever so slightly, whereas now the door is slowly moving toward the door frame. Once this door slams shut, the remaining fragments of the Stars-n-Stripes (just a few fragments left at this juncture), will equally list about in a breeze, to ultimately make their way into the same gutter--right alongside the fragments of the Constitution, and the wantonly discarded Burger King wrappers.

View attachment 127949

At this juncture, @InOmaha, do know that I share your sentiments, and your patriotism. I personally, on more than one occasion, have stared down the wrong end of USSR gun barrels (no longer the "USSR"), in the Black Sea, serving the country that once gave us "Free Speech" - a fragment of which we, for the moment, are enjoying in this Forum--thanks to Chris, who graciously affords us this liberty - a genuine reflection of his belief in Free Speech (unless of course a hapless JKU owner foolishly dares to lambaste the TJ - but that's different ). I mention laying my life on the line for this country, to in turn confess that from this wall upon which I now sit, the horizon is starting to look very grim.

View attachment 127950

Those of you reading this thread, and who incorporate prayer in your lives; may I implore you to pray in earnest for the state of our nation? As, what I also see from this wall upon which I sit, is that we are teetering dangerously close to Civil War.

Oh, and I almost forgot; my apologies for having completely ignored the OP's initial question; I've been a CCW/CCL Instructor and Range Safety Officer for many years. More recently however, I've enjoyed the challenge of being minus the firearm, and rather relying upon Krav Maga to disarm would-be assailants, to thereafter offer their weapon back to them--as a suppository. For you see, I'm also into holistic, naturophatic health, and "on a dime" I can go from being combative - to genuinely caring for one's overall health .

View attachment 127946

Very deep and insightful, I thank you for your prior and continued, albeit in a different capacity, service.

 

[Deuxdiesel]

doorstop.... hmmm.

 

[Jeepers-n-Creepers]

Very deep and insightful, I thank you for your prior and continued, albeit in a different capacity, service.

And thank YOU, for your resolve to drive a TJ--thus fortifying the cycle of humanity at large with an understanding of one of the deeper purposes in life .

Say, you ought to consider hooking-up with @JMT, who recently moved to Spokane, from Texas. He was wheeling in the Coeur d'Alene area just the other day. I just mentioned to him this morning, Tahuya National Forest up in the Olympic Penninsula of WA. It has some very challenging trails. Several clubs have put a lot of work into it in recent years. I wheeled there several times when I lived in WA--and lived to tell.

 

[reddvltj]

And thank YOU, for your resolve to drive a TJ--thus fortifying the cycle of humanity at large with an understanding of one of the deeper purposes in life .

Say, you ought to consider hooking-up with @JMT, who recently moved to Spokane, from Texas. He was wheeling in the Coeur d'Alene area just the other day. I just mentioned to him this morning, Tahuya National Forest up in the Olympic Penninsula of WA. It has some very challenging trails. Several clubs have put a lot of work into it in recent years. I wheeled there several times when I lived in WA--and lived to tell.

It has been a while but I have been to Tahuya. I was a member of the Timber Tamers 4x4 club in the PNW. I live about 7 hours away from Spokane, I'm literally in the middle of no where.

 

[Jeepers-n-Creepers]

doorstop.... hmmm.

Indeeed, a "doorstop" - keeping open a door much like this one pictured below:

In the spirit of a snippet of ancient literature which reads, "...we all see in part...know in part...and look into a mirror dimly...", I readily confess that I only see but a "part" of the whole of what's unfolding in this country. This confessed, I do listen to opposing view points, while dusting-off my former militaristic paradigm, and donning a posture of humility long enough to listen. However, if the opposing viewpoint is that comprised of parroting cranial saturation wrought of the maniacal-mainstream-media, then it is very difficult to take such seriously, as with extremely rare exception, all major media sources are collectively engaged in outright misinformation, disinformation, "spin," subterfuge and deeply nefarious measures of mass-mind-warp - one extremely toxic program of mass-deception. Those behind such, and who have artfully carried out such in "overdrive" for the past 11 years, are laughing themselves silly, as they sit behind the wizard's curtain - in "Oz."

"A picture is worth 1000 words":

On a redeeming note; we Jeepers have the unique opportunity to wheel deep into the woods, to thereafter sit in silence--away from the clamor of traffic and talking heads in media, and to rather allow our minds and hearts to re-calibrate. During such re-calibration, in the relative silence of the woods, we can often hear what is best described as the "still, small voice" of Wisdom - which happens to Trump even the sharpest minds which comprise Mensa.

 

[Tranz Zam]

Always wise to have some firepower handy. Always.