Do you carry a concealed handgun?

[reddvltj]

I didn't mean to suggest that there was zero impact. You could also point to Virginia, as more DC liberals are moving to and voting in Northern Virginia. Yet other places are getting increasingly more conservative, like the Deep South. Florida arguably is becoming more conservative. But to my point, Idaho is still overwhelmingly Republican, including both state houses and the governorship. I just don't see how California-like policy can be enacted in such an environment.

Unfortunately it is happening at a steady pace. Idaho may be predominantly conservative on both sides of the isle, but you have to remember Idaho has a relatively small population and a large amount of land that can be bought for pennies on the dollar when compared to CA land prices.

That kind of brings this back to another post that mentioned people may not be able to afford to leave CA. I was born in Northern CA and still have many relatives and friends that live there, and when I hear them talking about rent costs and property values, it astounds me. A person living in what would be considered poverty down there could live quite comfortably here. The biggest saving grace for where I live is there isn't a strong job market to support many people here.

I think maybe our best hope is to get them up here and convert them to our lifestyle!!!

 

[Fixer6]

I can tell you first hand that relocating liberals are having an effect here in Texas. The last election in Houston put in all elected Democrat judges. (Who should be neutral) Just last night on the news it was reported that crime is going up. The mayor of Houston (also a Democrat) is under federal investigation for profiting off the victims of Harvey. The Governor even will not release control of alloyed federal funds to the mayor, or any of his people. The mayor hired a company to process claims so people could receive FEMA relief. Harvey happened in 2017, but so far not one single person has been issued a check. The processing company however has been getting paid without fail big bucks.
We continually hear the liberals will turn our red state purple, if not blue. I won’t say they are the reason for the crime going up, but lack of much punitive action from the judges has opened the gates for bad people to do bad things. Between Beto and Castro, plus others trying to turn our state inside out, we have a huge influx of people who don’t know how to drive, major drug infestations, and a crazy sex trafficking issue. The governor even had to tell the mayor of Austin to do something about all the homeless encampments (California like with needles and poop on the sidewalks), or he would. Every day we have truckloads of illegal aliens show up, as Houston is considered a sanctuary city. Even the local Walmart has signs in Spanish. My wife happens to be German and asks them where are the signs for her at every time we go in there. It’s getting ridiculous.

 

[Byhumba]

That's excessive. If you go by 2016 results—approx. 61% Hillary, 31% Trump—that's still a lot of Republicans. Now, if you poll the Californians who are leaving the state for Texas for tax reasons, I would argue that much closer to half (if not more) are Republicans, and therefore more sympathetic to gun rights. Indeed, polls indicate that registered Republicans in California are 3 times more likely to seriously consider leaving the state compared to Democrats—40% to 14%. (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-04/california-conservatives-republicans-leaving) To suggest that Californians moving to Texas or elsewhere will be turning their destinations into socialist hell-scapes just isn't supported by data.

Think how many millions of anti-gun activists it would take to leave California and go to a single state to to not just flip the governorship, but both state houses in the process. Instead, the people who are leaving the state are individuals who made the decision to move to a state that aligns with their politics. That's how it's supposed to work.

Respect . Presenting data, not just an opinion. . Interesting point.

 

[Kiwi TJ]

I concealed mine so well 2 years ago...I still haven't found it

 

[jeepins]

The problem with that kind of mentality is, to be blunt, there is no "safe place" any more. While living in the much more rural parts of the country expose you to considerably less unsavory characters, you can never know 100% that something "can't happen here".
[/QUOTE]

Just a comment made during the course regarding being responsible about why/when/where to carry. Thinking about your actions, etc

 

[Vasq]

I just wanted to applaud everyone for being so civil in this thread, I'm entirely impressed. Not suggesting that I doubted anyone, but "concealed carry" in a non-gun forum always seems to careen into something.. argumentative and not a discussion, or morphs into something else entirely (political views) and gets ugly. Bravo!

I enjoyed learning as I read and find myself agreeing with many if not most of the mindsets in here. I actually typed up a big 'ol thing but re-reading it I ended up sounding like I was droning on. SO in short, I do carry. I think others should be able to (within the law) if they want to or feel the need. It should be done with respect for the weapon and the consequences of what it's capable of. I rarely carry and mostly got my CPL so my pistol could be loaded in the center console when I'm in very remote areas, and for situations I can't avoid and feel the risk is great enough, and because it's my right. I would gladly hand my valuables over during a robbery, even if I was armed (except my Jeep dammit) because I feel the only way I could come to terms with the (potential) aftermath would be in a situation that I couldn't walk/run away from, and the alternative was detrimental harm to myself or an innocent. If my house was being robbed, and myself and the other occupants were safely concealed, I'd simply stay hidden while calling the cops and at be at the ready, they can steal my electronics and appliances (if the go for the garage I'll hide the bodies).

Like many others have posted, I think guns are cool, but definitely view them as a tool/necessity and not something I'm obsessed with (not that there's anything wrong with loving guns). My guns aren't fancy and are not top of the line, but are robust and I trust them. Now I feel brave for posting

 

[reddvltj]

I just wanted to applaud everyone for being so civil in this thread, I'm entirely impressed. Not suggesting that I doubted anyone, but "concealed carry" in a non-gun forum always seems to careen into something.. argumentative and not a discussion, or morphs into something else entirely (political views) and gets ugly. Bravo!

I enjoyed learning as I read and find myself agreeing with many if not most of the mindsets in here. I actually typed up a big 'ol thing but re-reading it I ended up sounding like I was droning on. SO in short, I do carry. I think others should be able to (within the law) if they want to or feel the need. It should be done with respect for the weapon and the consequences of what it's capable of. I rarely carry and mostly got my CPL so my pistol could be loaded in the center console when I'm in very remote areas, and for situations I can't avoid and feel the risk is great enough, and because it's my right. I would gladly hand my valuables over during a robbery, even if I was armed (except my Jeep dammit) because I feel the only way I could come to terms with the (potential) aftermath would be in a situation that I couldn't walk/run away from, and the alternative was detrimental harm to myself or an innocent. If my house was being robbed, and myself and the other occupants were safely concealed, I'd simply stay hidden while calling the cops and at be at the ready, they can steal my electronics and appliances (if the go for the garage I'll hide the bodies).

Like many others have posted, I think guns are cool, but definitely view them as a tool/necessity and not something I'm obsessed with (not that there's anything wrong with loving guns). My guns aren't fancy and are not top of the line, but are robust and I trust them. Now I feel brave for posting

Gotta admit I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything after reading about defending your Jeep, then reading "if they go for the garage I'll hide the bodies". I laughed a little too hard!!!

 

[Vasq]

Gotta admit I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything after reading about defending your Jeep, then reading "if they go for the garage I'll hide the bodies". I laughed a little too hard!!!

I'm glad you took it that way, I wanted to lighten it up just a little haha

 

[Chris]

Unfortunately it is happening at a steady pace. Idaho may be predominantly conservative on both sides of the isle, but you have to remember Idaho has a relatively small population and a large amount of land that can be bought for pennies on the dollar when compared to CA land prices.

That kind of brings this back to another post that mentioned people may not be able to afford to leave CA. I was born in Northern CA and still have many relatives and friends that live there, and when I hear them talking about rent costs and property values, it astounds me. A person living in what would be considered poverty down there could live quite comfortably here. The biggest saving grace for where I live is there isn't a strong job market to support many people here.

I think maybe our best hope is to get them up here and convert them to our lifestyle!!!

At some point every major city will be blue, I have no doubt whatsoever. The smaller cities and towns will remain red, but the big cities and metropolitan areas are where the Californians (the ones we don't want) are moving to. They don't usually want to live in some small town, they are attracted to big metropolitan areas with lots of jobs and booming economies. And you can bet they bring their politics with them.

 

[reddvltj]

At some point every major city will be blue, I have no doubt whatsoever. The smaller cities and towns will remain red, but the big cities and metropolitan areas are where the Californians (the ones we don't want) are moving to. They don't usually want to live in some small town, they are attracted to big metropolitan areas with lots of jobs and booming economies. And you can bet they bring their politics with them.

Exactly, one thing I have seen recently with respect to this thread (and the 2nd Amendment) is 2A sanctuary cities/counties are popping up all over the country, even in "Blue" states.

 

[Viking Jeeper]

Exactly, one thing I have seen recently with respect to this thread (and the 2nd Amendment) is 2A sanctuary cities/counties are popping up all over the country, even in "Blue" states.

I live in Clay county Florida. The county is working on becoming a 2A sanctuary. Love it!

 

[Deuxdiesel]

There are also schools that are taking it upon themselves to arm their teachers. One of them happens to be just a few hours away from where I live.

https://idahonews.com/news/local/ga...s-rifles-will-warn-visitors-building-is-armed

I can't even begin to imagine my co-workers handling a gun in a crisis situation at school. I've been around guns all my life, and even though I don't hunt I still own one gun, but it only comes out for farm pests. I'm not sure I would be able to function in a school crisis situation either. The dynamics of it are overwhelming.

 

[Equilibrium31]

That's excessive. If you go by 2016 results—approx. 61% Hillary, 31% Trump—that's still a lot of Republicans. Now, if you poll the Californians who are leaving the state for Texas for tax reasons, I would argue that much closer to half (if not more) are Republicans, and therefore more sympathetic to gun rights. Indeed, polls indicate that registered Republicans in California are 3 times more likely to seriously consider leaving the state compared to Democrats—40% to 14%. (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-04/california-conservatives-republicans-leaving) To suggest that Californians moving to Texas or elsewhere will be turning their destinations into socialist hell-scapes just isn't supported by data.

Think how many millions of anti-gun activists it would take to leave California and go to a single state to to not just flip the governorship, but both state houses in the process. Instead, the people who are leaving the state are individuals who made the decision to move to a state that aligns with their politics. That's how it's supposed to work.

Yea, it's less of a regional thing than a reflection of the national trend:

And the biggest driver of those increases are high profile mass shootings since there's a very strong correlation:

And you can also see this reflected in a poll that asked people how worried they are about being involved in a mass shooting:

So, I don't mean to derail the subject, but I just thought it was worth pointing out some of this since I think the shifting view on guns has less to do with politicians/political thinking and more to do with people seeing headlines about mass shootings.

Full Gallup Poll Findings: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

The graph that matched the Gallup Poll findings to the mass shooter dates came from here: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-views-on-gun-control-have-changed-in-the-last-30-years/

There's even better stats on views on guns available from Pew Research for anyone interested: https://www.pewresearch.org/topics/gun-policy/

 

[BugoutJeep]

Don't forget to look up statistics on defensive use. Mass shootings are still rare, but coverage is very high.

And NPR had a good study that showed the correlation with mass shootings and copy cats and this is similar with suicide and reporting.

 

[matkal]

This is an interesting article that may be of interest to gun owners:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/virg...owned-firearms-second-amendment-reporter-says
A handful of my coworkers are staunch democrats who are also CC holders, on several occasions we've had political discussions and the subject of the second amendment is usually brought up as it is something we agree on. Every single one of them has told me, "You're wrong, the democrats will never take our guns away!".

These things happen slowly, like the frog in the pot of water on a stove.

 

[BugoutJeep]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ss-shootings-can-be-contagious-research-shows
I haven't read either recently and I'm not exactly sure about the point of the Forbes article (I don't think I've ever read it), but it does mention the CDC reports on defensive use. You be the judge...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/#7449b967299a

 

[Byhumba]

I just wanted to applaud everyone for being so civil in this thread, I'm entirely impressed. Not suggesting that I doubted anyone, but "concealed carry" in a non-gun forum always seems to careen into something.. argumentative and not a discussion, or morphs into something else entirely (political views) and gets ugly. Bravo!

I enjoyed learning as I read and find myself agreeing with many if not most of the mindsets in here. I actually typed up a big 'ol thing but re-reading it I ended up sounding like I was droning on. SO in short, I do carry. I think others should be able to (within the law) if they want to or feel the need. It should be done with respect for the weapon and the consequences of what it's capable of. I rarely carry and mostly got my CPL so my pistol could be loaded in the center console when I'm in very remote areas, and for situations I can't avoid and feel the risk is great enough, and because it's my right. I would gladly hand my valuables over during a robbery, even if I was armed (except my Jeep dammit) because I feel the only way I could come to terms with the (potential) aftermath would be in a situation that I couldn't walk/run away from, and the alternative was detrimental harm to myself or an innocent. If my house was being robbed, and myself and the other occupants were safely concealed, I'd simply stay hidden while calling the cops and at be at the ready, they can steal my electronics and appliances (if the go for the garage I'll hide the bodies).

Like many others have posted, I think guns are cool, but definitely view them as a tool/necessity and not something I'm obsessed with (not that there's anything wrong with loving guns). My guns aren't fancy and are not top of the line, but are robust and I trust them. Now I feel brave for posting

Loved this ! Agree 100%

 

[Equilibrium31]

Don't forget to look up statistics on defensive use. Mass shootings are still rare, but coverage is very high.

And NPR had a good study that showed the correlation with mass shootings and copy cats and this is similar with suicide and reporting.

Oh yea, that's definitely something to keep in perspective. As with most topics, the big headlines reflect big events, but that doesn't mean they reflect the underlying reality.

Big scary events tend to affect people more than statistical realities. This actually makes me think of the big gang rape/murder that happened recently in India. There was a young Veteranarian in Hyerabad who was driving home and had a flat. 4 men pretended to help her abducted her, raped her, then set her on fire.

It was a gruesome case that riled up the country and inspired a lot of protests against sexual violence similar to the bus gang rape of 2012 in New Dehli. In both of these cases, people paid a lot of attention because it was scary strangers attacking an innocent middle to upper class woman while she was travelling alone. However, the statistical reality of rape in that country (much like our own) is that it's much more likely to happen to poor women and the perpetrator is often someone who already knows the victim, such as a friend or relative.

But as is often the case with humans, we care more about what makes the best story than what the raw evidence suggests.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/02/7842...ged-rape-and-killing-of-a-female-veterinarian

 

[Equilibrium31]

This is an interesting article that may be of interest to gun owners:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/virg...owned-firearms-second-amendment-reporter-says
A handful of my coworkers are staunch democrats who are also CC holders, on several occasions we've had political discussions and the subject of the second amendment is usually brought up as it is something we agree on. Every single one of them has told me, "You're wrong, the democrats will never take our guns away!".

These things happen slowly, like the frog in the pot of water on a stove.

This is the kind of reaction that happens when the left and right can't talk to each other anymore. It's why you and your coworkers can have civil conversations with different points of view that are tempered with the understanding of your differences.

However, we're in a setting where people on the right demonize the left and vice versa. A lot of this is the result of people spending their time reading headlines and opinions from people that generate outrage. So when you get liberals who are normally level-headed exposed to enough articles on places like DailyKos.com talking about how Trump's views on gun legislation is tied up in racist white supremacist views and then instead of having a normal conversation where people talk and listen to each other, they hear opinions from people of opposing views in the form of snarky or outright mean-spirited memes on Facebook.

The less we actually have civil discussions with each other and the more we treat opposing views as inherently evil, the more radical legislation we're likely to see on both sides.

I used to be someone that would say the same thing your coworkers do about gun control, but as civil discourse has broken down, I realize that the possibility of radical anti-second amendment legislation becomes more likely.

 

[LJJames]

I don't. Just no desire to. Been around guns my entire life. Still love them. Just haven't been "into" them the last few years.