Setting up links for variable height suspension

Given what I've been seeing recently in my little world from Metalcloak bushings, I would not consider them as an option if longevity is of interest.

Years ago, Rokmen used a bonded rubber bushing on one end opposite a JJ, but I don't know specifically what kind it was or if it was anything special. I've only seen one set of those in person.
 
BuildBreakRepeat said:
Joints that use elastic material like rubber will perform how you are thinking. A Johnny joint on the axle side and a rubber bushing on the frame side would provide good results. Hell, you could even experiment with a MC duroflex on one end and a JJ on the other for the self centering ;)
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o_O Did you say MC??? OMG the heavens are going to part and bring hellfire down upon your head.... :oops:😁😆
If the swaybar arm idea doesn't pan out I'll look for a different type of bushing.

jjvw said:
Given what I've been seeing recently in my little world from Metalcloak bushings, I would not consider them as an option.

Years ago, Rokmen used a bonded rubber bushing on one end, but I don't know specifically what kind it was or if it was anything special. I've only seen one set of those in person.
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Seem Rokmen is on my call list. Find out if they still make those bushings and if I can get them.
 
Wildman said:
....


Seem Rokmen is on my call list. Find out if they still make those bushings and if I can get them.
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The rumor is that Rokmen has been moving away from their Jeep specific stuff into the broader overlanding market.
 
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Wildman said:
o_O Did you say MC??? OMG the heavens are going to part and bring hellfire down upon your head.... :oops:😁😆
If the swaybar arm idea doesn't pan out I'll look for a different type of bushing.


Seem Rokmen is on my call list. Find out if they still make those bushings and if I can get them.
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The words hurt my fingers to type out...but at least they self center which would work for your application 😂
 
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xxdabroxx said:
No go on the sway bar reading?
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Don't know yet. Will talk to ORO next week and see if they have come up with any ideas. Just looking at other possibilities if that won't work.

So here are some other joints I have found. Let's hear your thoughts on each of them.

Rusty's : https://www.rustysoffroad.com/build...forged-rubber-end-2-5-with-5-8-bore-hole.html

Clayton: https://www.claytonoffroad.com/product/forged-rod-end-1-1-4-12-rh-2-5-8-width-9-16
These seem like they might be the ticket but I'll be the first to admit I am not knowledgeable about these things. But in their description they seem to fit the bill.

 
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Okay I have a few questions since this is moving along now. What size are the bolts used in the lower frame end bushings? Tried looking but I can't find this info anywhere. Is 9/16ths the correct size? Clayton only offers the ends I need in 2 sizes 9/16th or 16mm and want to make sure I order the correct size.
 
I remember reading a long while back that MC doesn't recommend using their joints on the same arm as a JJ. If I recall correctly, it's because their joint might not produce enough return-to-center force to overcome the friction in a JJ (this might vary depending on maintenance).
 
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The shuggs said:
I remember reading a long while back that MC doesn't recommend using their joints on the same arm as a JJ. If I recall correctly, it's because their joint might not produce enough return-to-center force to overcome the friction in a JJ (this might vary depending on maintenance).
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Yeah a MC joint would not be the right choice here. Something stiffer (normal rubber bushing or DD) would work better.
 
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Any one happen to know the bolt size for the frame mounted joint from the Savvy mid arm?
 
The shuggs said:
I remember reading a long while back that MC doesn't recommend using their joints on the same arm as a JJ. If I recall correctly, it's because their joint might not produce enough return-to-center force to overcome the friction in a JJ (this might vary depending on maintenance).
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Which is a whole bunch of BS. All that would happen is the JJ would do all the work of misalignment from flex. If the MC bushing can't hold up to the same use a common bonded rubber bushing can, then all we've discovered is another reason not to use MC stuff.

Anyone looking for an example of how much of a minor issue this is only needs to look at the multitude of JJ owners who haven't converted the front axle upper bushings.
 
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BuildBreakRepeat said:
I can go measure it later today, or maybe @jjvw can tell ya.
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Not a problem I just want to make sure I order the correct size joints from Clayton. The good part is ORO was going to try out those joints to see how they worked so I think I'll end up testing them for them.

jjvw said:
Which is a whole bunch of BS. All that would happen is the JJ would do all the work of misalignment from flex. If the MC bushing can't hold up to the same use a common bonded rubber bushing can, then all we've discovered is another reason not to use MC stuff.

Anyone looking for an example of how much of a minor issue this is only needs to look at the multitude of JJ owners who haven't converted the front axle upper bushings.
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I'm staying away from MC suspension stuff and HOPE their fenders are better. Let's hope the joints from Clayton work and are quality stuff.
 
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jjvw said:
Which is a whole bunch of BS. All that would happen is the JJ would do all the work of misalignment from flex. If the MC bushing can't hold up to the same use a common bonded rubber bushing can, then all we've discovered is another reason not to use MC stuff.

Anyone looking for an example of how much of a minor issue this is only needs to look at the multitude of JJ owners who haven't converted the front axle upper bushings.
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I would disagree, because the OEM approach to CA flex is different from how the aftermarket does it. We all know that the stock CAs flex in the arm rather than the joint. The stock bushing is very stiff, so it can generate the force to return a JJ to center. On top of that, elastomers act in weird ways, they may be able to handle a certain amount of deflection hundreds of thousands of times, but once you start holding that same deflection for a prolonged period of time, they can no longer handle it. Cyclic loading vs continuous loading makes a big difference for them.
 
The shuggs said:
I would disagree, because the OEM approach to CA flex is different from how the aftermarket does it. We all know that the stock CAs flex in the arm rather than the joint. The stock bushing is very stiff, so it can generate the force to return a JJ to center. On top of that, elastomers act in weird ways, they may be able to handle a certain amount of deflection hundreds of thousands of times, but once you start holding that same deflection for a prolonged period of time, they can no longer handle it. Cyclic loading vs continuous loading makes a big difference for them.
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All you are doing is help explain why MC bushings wear out the way they often do.
 
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FWIW, I have roughly 70k on my duroflex joints and they're needing replaced
 
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