Duroflex vs Johnny Joints...again
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Well gentleman, i had my share of laughs, it was as good as every other time.
So, meet again in 30 days? Same place?
So, meet again in 30 days? Same place?
How can we stop having these threads? Serious question @Chris can we make a sticky or a thread in the resources about “what a control arm joint does and what makes a good one”? Or maybe “what determines flex and articulation” How can we most effectively get across to new people that shock length determines travel and that having 20 million degrees of range of motion in a joint doesn’t matter. Or we can keep posting retard memes and call it a day, idk
It would be better if we were to get folks to understand what controls the range of motion in a joint. It isn't the joint fully since the mount width is fixed at a specific width. It you want to get more rotation in a joint, you need to reduce the body diameter, narrow it up, or some combination of both. Ideally you want the largest joint you can get in the mounts to increase durability due to larger components that make up the joint. If the ball is too small, it wears the race faster since point loading is higher. If the ball is too big, the race suffers since it lacks sufficient thickness to be wear resistant and provide isolation. If the body is too wide, it bottoms out inside the mount before you get enough misalignment to be usable. If the body is too large in diameter, same thing happens.
What you are after is a design that gives you the most usable misalignment with the largest ball, thickest race, and heaviest body without compromising any of those aspects in favor of another. When all are in balance, that's a pretty nice joint.
That’s great info. Of course there are many reasons why, but that helps tangibly explain to people why the Johnny joint is more durable. It is bigger with a bigger ball and race while still giving you all the misalignment you need and nothing you don’t
What would even be more awesome is if someone could post up an angle finder on a fully articulated axle with 14" of shock travel (not the same as wheel travel which is always more) and then show how far the joints are from bottoming out on the sides of the mounts. It isn't even close and then we would have a very clear understanding of why asking the right question is more important to see through all the bullshit that is out there.
I don’t need to tell you this but it’s the metalcloak marketing that causes the bullshit. People that don’t know any better look at their website and all over it they say their joints have more flex than JJs and all the other competitors. People automatically think that flex will be actualized.
8 lug on a 6" bolt circle is much stronger than 5 lug on a 4.5" bolt circle.
Not possible unfortunately. Look at all the stickies I’ve got for the most basic of questions. Guess what? No one reads them. People don’t want to read or research these days, they want immediate answers to their questions.
That’s not to say it isn’t worth a sticky, but it is to say that it’s not going to stop these threads from popping up every now and then unfortunately.
You can make one, dump hours of your time into to, fill it with good and through details and it will not change this.
At some point, someone will have a question, because they either missed a sticky or they did not find sticky being helpful.
What happens after question is posted, that is the problem.
There is some good information in this threads, some things i learned, some got me thinking. There is also plenty of clowning and personal investment into JJ vs MC debate with some people.
I kinda like these threads, it's like a breath of fresh air from the
How much lift to run 33's
Why don't folks like RC lifts
Why Rustys is superior to all else
Is @Jerry Bransford real or fictional
Is @AndyG the best guy in Alabama
This thread has had more good information in it than previous threads that I can recall.
That is a large part of the problem. Folks by and large think that we are somehow invested in what you run. Personally it makes no difference to me whatsoever what you run. What I can't abide by is when you come up with bullshit built upon the bullshit to justify your choice. We didn't pick the JJ for any reason other than it was an option, it was relatively local, and they were different than what was out there at the time. It took several years before we learned that this was a pretty good joint. We didn't wear them out, they worked damn well, they were affordable, and it didn't hurt that they are pretty local.
When we started espousing the virtues, then the bullshit started along with all the fucking knock-off chinese joints and adjustable joints and somehow they all got tagged with the JJ label. We spent 10 years explaining that just because it looked like a JJ, that didn't make it work, act, or last like one. Ignorant goddamn companies like Rokmen didn't help. They put up a poll on JF asking how to design their new line of control arms so they would sell. Across the board the most popular option was Clevite on one end for "ride quality" and a JJ on the other for "flex" so even companies back then were pandering to ignorance. No one understood that the ride quality difference if even discernible was negligibly different and that hasn't changed. What that did do was perpetuate the misconception that the JJ rode like shit. I posted up on JF dozens upon dozens of rebuttal questions asking them that said that if they had ever even taken one apart. No, why does that matter? Well it matters because if you had, you'd inherently understand they are a joint with ISOLATION. Huh? They have urethane races. Yeah, so?
Even Matson's own admission to me when I got on his ass hard as to why he thinks the JJ has such poor ride quality was the epitome of ignorance that clearly shows he has his head up his ass. He said that his single experience in a rig equipped with JJ was going for a ride in John Currie's buggy at one of the KOH events and bopping around the desert. Seriously? Firm shocks for running at speed, aired up 42" tires, shit terrain and that's your full experience you used and then attributed the entirety of the ride quality to the fucking joint? Are you fucking stupid?
Almost forgot, part of the problem is dumbasses like you that think hex is special. It isn't, the minor increase in strength across the points doesn't make up for the sharp edges that get peeled off like butter in the rocks and hang up easier since those edges also dig in easier. They only use hex to be different, no other reason. They aren't the only company that knows hex bar stock exists. If it was a good solution, there would be a lot more companies using it.
If you overlay 1.5" hex bar stock over 1.5" round bar stock, this is what you get.
Beautiful word choice- it is amazing the shortage of technical knowledge is so pervasive companies that make the product even ask- if it was blue versus red, etc I’d understand better maybe.
No you old fart-tard, i dont think it is special, it matters none to me.
Person made a statement, i challenged his statement to better understand him and see if there is value behind his words, or is he simply simping for Savvy like most do. Shit brands is only half the problem, other half consist of ignorant followers.
Fuck the hex, call it what you want as long as we understand what is being referred to and reason why. If you see no value behind adding 2/4/5 small flat spots on one end of the tube, there is no reason to continue this
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